Green Cars Part 3- Hydrogen
Posted 02-03-2009 at 02:14 PM by mattW
Tags alternative fuels, green cars, hydrogen
The more I delve into this topic the more detail I want to address, so rather than cover all three energy storage options in this post I’ve decided to give a more detailed look at hydrogen. Keep a look out for a look at compressed air and battery electric in the next two weeks. Hydrogen is the darling of the media, car manufacturers and oil companies alike. The general public seems fairly convinced that hydrogen vehicles are going to be the way of the future and a simple replacement for oil. Just about every car manufacturer has done at least a fuel cell concept, if not a ‘production ready model’ or even consumer testing. Hydrogen can be filled up in more or less the same way as conventional cars meaning that consumers can continue in their established transport patterns. It can be produced from a variety of different sources including electricity and has the potential to be created with zero emissions. Best of all the only thing to come out of the tailpipe of a fuel cell vehicle is water vapour.But is hydrogen really the miracle cure for oil dependence and transport environmental damage that everyone thinks it is?
As a preface, the first thing that needs to be noted in answering that question is that hydrogen, unlike petroleum or natural gas, is not actually a fuel source, it is just an energy carrier. We can’t mine, harvest or extract hydrogen from the earth; we have to make it ourselves. That means we need to put energy in to make hydrogen so we can get it back out again in our cars. The problem with that is that it isn’t a very efficient or necessarily green process and that’s not the only obstacle, Popular Mechanics lists 4 major hurdles for hydrogen to become the fuel that powers our transport needs:
Production
At present the vast majority of hydrogen production uses heat and pressure to extract hydrogen from natural gas. The process uses fossil fuels, energy for the heat and pressure and releases CO2. So the hydrogen produced can hardly be called green. The cheapest alternative method to produce the 150 million tons of hydrogen required to replace current passenger cars is coal gasification. Costing around US$500 billion, the process would produce 600 million tons of CO2. The cheapest CO2 free way of doing it would be nuclear at $840 billion and requiring 2000 next generation reactors compared to the 103 existing nuclear power stations in the US. If you covered an area greater than California in wind generators you could match current fuel prices after the 3 trillion dollar setup cost. Pretty much any replacement for oil is going to take similar scale investment (for example Battery Electric Vehicles would require about 50% of these estimates) but you get an idea of the scope of the change that needs to happen for us to replace our current transport situation.
Storage
I’m going to try and keep the next two short but you can read more about them here. Hydrogen is light, giving it quite a good energy to weight ratio of 3 times that of natural gas. The problem is that it is also not very dense, even if cooled to the point where it turns into a liquid you would still require three times as much space as an equivalent gas (petrol) tank. If compressed to 10,000 psi, 250 times more pressure than your average tires, you would need 4-5 times the amount of space for a tank for the same range as an equivalent petrol car. There are also certain materials which can absorb and release hydrogen but they are heavy and expensive.
Distribution
Trucking it will take 11% of the energy in each load just for the truck. Pipelines cost about a $1 000 000 per mile. Small scale on site production via electrolysis or natural gas is less efficient than large scale but could potentially be the best of the not very good options. Or in the distant future in car production may be possible though it would be using up our aluminium reserves.
Use
You can use hydrogen in an internal combustion engine and get about a 25% better fuel economy than traditional ICE’s. Considering ICE cars are only 20-25% efficient anyway we’re not getting much bang for our buck. Fuel Cells can bump this to 45% total efficiency with light duty but this drops to 36% under high loads. Not to mention that Fuel Cells are so expensive that Ballard, a leading fuel cell researcher for the past 25 years worth 600 million has abandoned its fuel cell program as prohibitively expensive. The Wall Street Journal even quoted Toyota and GM big-shots implying that fuel cells were too expensive for any near term production, though the manufacturers have played down those comments. But even with the efficiency of Fuel Cells the total well to wheel efficiency of hydrogen cars ends up at around 17-22%. When compared to electric vehicles, hybrids or even efficient petrol or diesel cars this is not very smart use of energy, especially considering the scale of implementing such a system, discussed above.
Perhaps the biggest thing we can use to evaluate the effectiveness of fuel is its well to wheel efficiency, if not its availability or cost viability. Hydrogen vehicles are not the best option on any of these counts. Their efficiency fails to compete with the other options. When they would be widely available is anyone’s guess; GM says a decade , The EU suggests 2030, but some have guessed up to 100 years, not to mention the chicken and the egg car and distribution problem. And as we saw in the last paragraph hydrogen cars are prohibitively expensive with fuel cells and not very efficient as an ICE. I fail to see where all the enthusiasm stems from for hydrogen cars, people just don’t seem to be aware of the numbers. When you look at the facts, H2 cars are too wasteful, too expensive and too far away.
As a preface, the first thing that needs to be noted in answering that question is that hydrogen, unlike petroleum or natural gas, is not actually a fuel source, it is just an energy carrier. We can’t mine, harvest or extract hydrogen from the earth; we have to make it ourselves. That means we need to put energy in to make hydrogen so we can get it back out again in our cars. The problem with that is that it isn’t a very efficient or necessarily green process and that’s not the only obstacle, Popular Mechanics lists 4 major hurdles for hydrogen to become the fuel that powers our transport needs:
Production
At present the vast majority of hydrogen production uses heat and pressure to extract hydrogen from natural gas. The process uses fossil fuels, energy for the heat and pressure and releases CO2. So the hydrogen produced can hardly be called green. The cheapest alternative method to produce the 150 million tons of hydrogen required to replace current passenger cars is coal gasification. Costing around US$500 billion, the process would produce 600 million tons of CO2. The cheapest CO2 free way of doing it would be nuclear at $840 billion and requiring 2000 next generation reactors compared to the 103 existing nuclear power stations in the US. If you covered an area greater than California in wind generators you could match current fuel prices after the 3 trillion dollar setup cost. Pretty much any replacement for oil is going to take similar scale investment (for example Battery Electric Vehicles would require about 50% of these estimates) but you get an idea of the scope of the change that needs to happen for us to replace our current transport situation.
Storage
I’m going to try and keep the next two short but you can read more about them here. Hydrogen is light, giving it quite a good energy to weight ratio of 3 times that of natural gas. The problem is that it is also not very dense, even if cooled to the point where it turns into a liquid you would still require three times as much space as an equivalent gas (petrol) tank. If compressed to 10,000 psi, 250 times more pressure than your average tires, you would need 4-5 times the amount of space for a tank for the same range as an equivalent petrol car. There are also certain materials which can absorb and release hydrogen but they are heavy and expensive.
Distribution
Trucking it will take 11% of the energy in each load just for the truck. Pipelines cost about a $1 000 000 per mile. Small scale on site production via electrolysis or natural gas is less efficient than large scale but could potentially be the best of the not very good options. Or in the distant future in car production may be possible though it would be using up our aluminium reserves.
Use
You can use hydrogen in an internal combustion engine and get about a 25% better fuel economy than traditional ICE’s. Considering ICE cars are only 20-25% efficient anyway we’re not getting much bang for our buck. Fuel Cells can bump this to 45% total efficiency with light duty but this drops to 36% under high loads. Not to mention that Fuel Cells are so expensive that Ballard, a leading fuel cell researcher for the past 25 years worth 600 million has abandoned its fuel cell program as prohibitively expensive. The Wall Street Journal even quoted Toyota and GM big-shots implying that fuel cells were too expensive for any near term production, though the manufacturers have played down those comments. But even with the efficiency of Fuel Cells the total well to wheel efficiency of hydrogen cars ends up at around 17-22%. When compared to electric vehicles, hybrids or even efficient petrol or diesel cars this is not very smart use of energy, especially considering the scale of implementing such a system, discussed above.
Perhaps the biggest thing we can use to evaluate the effectiveness of fuel is its well to wheel efficiency, if not its availability or cost viability. Hydrogen vehicles are not the best option on any of these counts. Their efficiency fails to compete with the other options. When they would be widely available is anyone’s guess; GM says a decade , The EU suggests 2030, but some have guessed up to 100 years, not to mention the chicken and the egg car and distribution problem. And as we saw in the last paragraph hydrogen cars are prohibitively expensive with fuel cells and not very efficient as an ICE. I fail to see where all the enthusiasm stems from for hydrogen cars, people just don’t seem to be aware of the numbers. When you look at the facts, H2 cars are too wasteful, too expensive and too far away.
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Total Comments 19
Comments
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Fantastic Article, Matt!!Posted 03-18-2008 at 11:22 PM by rbgrn 
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Great article! I am glad you expanded on the storage mediums and went far to dispell the propeganda about hydrogen.
Great references to back it up too.Posted 03-19-2008 at 10:02 PM by GeEkBoY
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I think that hydrogen is a good way for car companies to say, look at us we are working on this!!!! But in reality they have no intention of making it a viable replacement for dino juice. To be quite honest i don't think that they really want to get away from oil at all. If they would have continues to reaserch electric power seriously in the 90's (aka GM could have continued to build on the EV1 concept), we would have or at leats be a whole lot closer to or currently have a viable mass produced ev car.
Even a hybrid that would do the first 20 miles on electic power after being plugged in for a night would be a huge step up from what we currently have. Instead we get the prius (which is a decent car) that regular drivers only get mid 40's to low 50's mpg. Last Time I drove one (1500 mile round trip) I got a trip average of 44 mpg. The best mileage I did get over a 25 mile distance though was 70 mpg, and it took alot of work to get that.Posted 03-22-2008 at 10:24 PM by duoderf
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i dont believe in hydrogen on the simple thing that the infrastructure isnt there. we already have 120V outlets everywhere and electric cars have been modified to use them. also consider the recent breakthrough in wireless electricity, we could charge wirelessly while we drive!
Posted 03-26-2008 at 09:40 AM by Killowatt
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Hear hear. Hydrogen is pretty clearly a distraction from practical alternatives. Everybody knows that in a few years we'll have our clean hydrogen vehicles and we've just got to make due with our gassers until then.
Can somebody explain why a hydrogen fuel cell car that gets ~20% plug to motor (electrolysis efficiency loss, etc) is a dream worth investing billions into, but a battery electric that gets ~80% today, with parts already being mass produced for other industries isn't worth pursuing? Why has our government committed to hydrogen as the one and only alternative energy solution.
Don't even mention the fact that hydrogen is notoriously difficult to store for any length of time....it passes through solid metal!Posted 03-28-2008 at 10:58 AM by AmpEater
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I've got 3000 words worth of essays this week so the next part (electric cars) will be delayed til my assignments are in but stay posted...
Posted 04-05-2008 at 03:06 AM by mattW
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Killowatt,Quote:i dont believe in Hydrogen on the simple thing that the infrastructure isnt there. we already have 120V outlets everywhere and electric cars have been modified to use them. also consider the recent breakthrough in wireless electricity, we could charge wirelessly while we drive!
What the FK is that about wireless electricity and charging while driving garbage? Wireless electricity is not going to wirelessly charge your electric car while you drive. If your talking induction then that is old hat stuff and would have to be imbedded in the road way to be usable for any EV. Please expand on your comment. I just don't buy it. On or off list.Posted 04-05-2008 at 04:15 AM by gottdi
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Hydrogen as well as plugin EV's are not going to be a replacement for oil any time soon. They only tease us and because of the recent press they have had to go to greater lengths to make sure we the public are placated enough to buy the hype garbage they are feeding us. We must do it but the problem is that when it happens that grassroots gets it done they will lobby with their billions of dollars to prevent them from being legal. For now we are not a threat but if it ever becomes one they will lobby our efforts out of our range again and make it illegal. Money does buy laws in this country. They want to keep their billions of dollars. Gas keeps creeping up. When will Americans finally say enough? Guess $4 is not enough yet. I pay $4.20 for Diesel now. Ouch! I am building an EV now too. Solar charged so uncle sam can't have it. Soon it will be illegal to drive a modified gas to electric vehicle. So I will enjoy it while I still can. So should you. Build your own today. Before it's too late. When it's too late I will be back on my Bike. People power.
Posted 04-05-2008 at 04:22 AM by gottdi
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I had been a big follower of Hydrogen gas cars since Dr. Roger E Ballard (aka Dr. Hydrogen) was featured on Popular Mechanics back in the seventies. He created hydrogen powered cars as a teen with his brother (and had a blow up issue! LOL!), created the "hydrogen homestead" in Colorado (a home entirely powered with hydrogen), and reluctantly he went into the fuel-cell research that others went with.
I've spoken a few times with Dr. Ballard over email, and found him a very approachable resource on my initial investments. With the fact that CURRENT pipelines can be converted to carry hydrogen (tube within a tube), that alge-farms create hydrogen with photosynthisis, and lots of other ways to get hydrogen from water, I found myself more and more attracted to this.
As it's been pointed out, storage is the problem. Due to it's light nature, and the fact it burns VERY hot compared to a typical ICE, there are hurdles to cross. Solar, Hydro, and wind energy can help generate the energy needed for the typical electrolisis, but then again, if you're going to go thru that much effort, why not use that same energy in it's original form to power the car and home...
Since the availability of nimH and lithium batteries has advanced the storage issues for electricity, I gave up on my quest for a hydrogen powered car... sounds sweet... just not doable anytime soon!
Excellent article! WELL written and investigated!Posted 04-24-2008 at 10:27 AM by mstalanon
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Just last night I caught a snippet of what looked like Kerry O'Brien interviewing Richard Heinberg on the future of oil.
I almost fell over. Richard was talking about the complexities of hydrogen and the unacceptable cost of biofuels and then he said something I never thought I'd hear on TV:
"All our Green energy methods, solar, wind, hydro - they all produce electricity. So I see the future of transport revolving around improvements in electric vehicles"
You can imagine the kind of dance I was doing around the loungeroom as my wife & daughter looked on, dumbfounded.
FINALLY, the simple logic of electricity has penetrated the raging babble of the spin doctors. That's one large step forward in the debate!
Edit: Here's a link to the wmv file. It should open in Windows Media Player.
mms://media3.abc.net.au/winlibrary/7...16_9_bband.wmvPosted 06-19-2008 at 06:39 PM by jlsawell
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+1 for EVs and -1 for H-Cars on the official scorecard
Posted 06-19-2008 at 08:47 PM by rbgrn
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The best use of a Hydrogen fuel cell would be for a home, not a car.
And since the power companies are not going to allow that, we will still be screwed on our home electricy expenses.
Course this is just my opine....
Anything we would like to have will have to come from us, as the big boys are not going to want to let us get by with less complications or expense.Posted 06-20-2008 at 10:50 PM by Coley 
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of course, because of your icon I pictured R. Lee Ermey doing that dance *lol*Quote:Originally Posted by jlsawell
You can imagine the kind of dance I was doing around the loungeroom as my wife & daughter looked onPosted 06-23-2008 at 05:24 PM by Manntis
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Well its a great article, but it gives even more ideas for our own use with our EV's. I always wanted to convert my gas generator to run off water since I first heard about it, now I think I will put it in my trunk and use it as a charging system to charge my EV while going down the highway, now that would be cool to stop at a gas station and ask for a glass of water so you can fill up your tank to recharge your batteries. haha.
It would fit perfect in my trunk. Hmmm. maybe all I need is one set of batteries now. Anyone willing to try it?Posted 06-24-2008 at 10:25 PM by LeTank
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I swear, I make this argument about once every other day. Glad to hear that someone else has been trying to get the word out.Quote:Originally Posted by AmpEater
Can somebody explain why a hydrogen fuel cell car that gets ~20% plug to motor (electrolysis efficiency loss, etc) is a dream worth investing billions into, but a battery electric that gets ~80% today, with parts already being mass produced for other industries isn't worth pursuing? Why has our government committed to hydrogen as the one and only alternative energy solution.
I actually wrote 4 essays about cars in my ENG101 class. The topics were: women's issues, middle eastern issues, public perception and misconception... I don't recall what the last topic was, but it was basically public perception all over again if you ask me. For women's issues I wrote about women in racing like Shirley Muldowney and Danica Patrick. For middle eastern issues I wrote about how the west's love affair with the automobile has influenced politics in the middle east (what other middle east issue is there?Quote:Originally Posted by MattWI've got 3000 words worth of essays this week ) For public misconception I wrote about how the American public is unaware of the multitude of hybirid choices offered by Toyota, Ford and GM and how some of those choices are actually quite fun to drive and how some of them are SUVs.
Anyway, kinda pointless rambling here, but you might want to try to write about sustainable energy in your classes when you can. It can be worked in just about anywhere and you can sometimes kill two birds with one stone. Not all assignments allow this kind of twisting of the subject, but many do.
I actually see home energy storage being best handled by a car too - not so much right this second, but in the future. The reason that storing energy for your house might make more sense in the not-too-distant future is that the cost of LiFePO4 batteries will hopefully be coming down. That means that a car could simply give up a small percentage of its total stored energy to run household appliances when needed. This isn't necessarily a good idea right now because EVs that use lead acid batteries need every Wh of energy they can get just to putter across town. Li ion will hopefully change this.Quote:Originally Posted by ColeyThe best use of a Hydrogen fuel cell would be for a home, not a car.Posted 06-25-2008 at 01:29 AM by xrotaryguy
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Simple: TaxQuote:Originally Posted by AmpEater
Can somebody explain why a hydrogen fuel cell car that gets ~20% plug to motor (electrolysis efficiency loss, etc) is a dream worth investing billions into, but a battery electric that gets ~80% today, with parts already being mass produced for other industries isn't worth pursuing? Why has our government committed to hydrogen as the one and only alternative energy solution.
Don't even mention the fact that hydrogen is notoriously difficult to store for any length of time....it passes through solid metal!
Hydrogen storage would be similar to LPG (existing infrastructure and delivery method) and the tax system is already in place. Because you can't tax the portion of home electricity used to charge EVs, and EVs don't pay fuel tax/exise there will be a MASSIVE reduction in tax funds when people stop using petrol.
To keep medicare operational, the schools open and soldiers paid, taxes will need to be levied somehow, so pushing people into Hydrogen rather than EVs makes perfect sense from a government point of view.Posted 06-25-2008 at 08:31 PM by jlsawell
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BINGO!!!Quote:Originally Posted by jlsawell
Simple: Tax
Hydrogen storage would be similar to LPG (existing infrastructure and delivery method) and the tax system is already in place. Because you can't tax the portion of home electricity used to charge EVs, and EVs don't pay fuel tax/exise there will be a MASSIVE reduction in tax funds when people stop using petrol.
To keep medicare operational, the schools open and soldiers paid, taxes will need to be levied somehow, so pushing people into Hydrogen rather than EVs makes perfect sense from a government point of view.
That's it
Also don't forget the whole industry that is built around keeping ice's going. from mechanics to auto supplies. All will be redundant if they switch to fuel cells.
Personally I think the most likely use of hydrogen will be to simply convert the existing rolling stock to run on it. Then none of the Auto industry will be affected and everybody will still have to go and fill er up at a gas station and pay their taxes like good robots.Posted 06-25-2008 at 11:55 PM by DVR
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You Yanks won't even have to change the name - it'll still be a GAS station - but literally "gas" - not petrol mis-labelled as gasolineQuote:Originally Posted by DVR
BINGO!!!
That's it
Also don't forget the whole industry that is built around keeping ice's going. from mechanics to auto supplies. All will be redundant if they switch to fuel cells.
Personally I think the most likely use of hydrogen will be to simply convert the existing rolling stock to run on it. Then none of the Auto industry will be affected and everybody will still have to go and fill er up at a gas station and pay their taxes like good robots.
Posted 06-26-2008 at 03:27 AM by jlsawell
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it really is a nice article, and I really like to convert my car to be electrically powered car or water powered, but its very costly... but i dont think hydrogen is good for the car... that's my 50 cents...
Posted 06-27-2008 at 09:52 PM by jamieoliver
