DIY Electric Car Forums - EVDL List

[EVDL] OT: Road noise

EVDL List — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:45:25 GMT

I've been using by Saturn Vue EV since March and I'd like some input
regarding road noise. I seem to be getting a lot of road noise emanating
from the rear wheel wells.

When I put the battery box in the cargo bay of the Vue I removed a thin
layer of padding between the body sheet metal and trim. After putting in
the battery box I covered it with carpet and stuffed carpet padding into the
cavities over the wheel wells. Although this reduces the noise it does not
eliminate it. I almost think that my battery box is acting as a giant
amplifier for the road noise from the rear.

Thoughts,

Barry Oppenheim
New Hope, PA
www.JustAnotherEVConversion.blogspot.com

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[EVDL] Slightly OT: Rust prevention was Re: Start up a RENTYOURPACK OF BATTERIES stor

EVDL List — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:16:19 GMT

Just to Let you guys know. We can still get a discount on POR-15 Rust
Preventive paints
At www.por15.Com. The discount code is AMX0109 and is good for 10% off.

If you haven't used this paint yet, you will be surprised how durable it is.
If you are going to use it on a battery box, coat it
At least 2 coats. If you have wet batteries use 3 coats.

Phil Galati
Trans Atlantic Electric Conversions
New Jersey

-------Original Message-------

From: Bob Rice
Date: 11/19/2009 8:07:21 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Slightly OT: Rust prevention was Re: Start up a
RENTYOURPACK OF BATTERIES store

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Miles"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:31 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Slightly OT: Rust prevention was Re: Start up a RENTYOUR
PACK OF BATTERIES store

> [quote] David Nelson wrote:
>
>> When I was a kid we lived on Majuro in the Marshal Islands in the Pacific
>> Ocean just north of the equator. (You can find it on Google Earth.) Every
>> time we bought a new pickup it went through Guam and was taken to the
>> Zebart
>> undercoating shop and they did basically the same thing that Dennis
>> described. We could actually get over 5 years out of a pickup! By
>> comparison, a non-undercoated pickup would literally rust out in 2 years.
>> I
>> remember my Dad talking about a tiny rust spot he saw one evening on the
>> bumper of the pickup. By the next morning there was a hole clear through
>> the
>> bumper that you could see through! Undercoating does help.

And VW Rabbits, too! Great car to convert, sturdy, handy aftermarket
parts, etc. But RUST BUCKETS! The #$%^ windshields leaked in the Drivers
side in particular, pissing water down behind the dash, attacking the door
posts, you had to LIFT the door up, to close it! The fuse box, or strip got
wet, causing endless electrical issues, Oh, same for older Jettas,
too!When's the L:AST time ya saw a Rabbit in places where there is weather?
Rumer has it that there are STILL Rabbits, etc,Out West? In that I have a 20
year old Jetta is no small miricle, It WAS undercoated and musta led a
charmed life in it's early years?Well for that matter any OLDER Datsuns' The
White Zombie woulda been mulch 20 YEARS ago, had it been born on the Least
Coast!Sure miss those simple, computerless cars! Hard around here to find
basic, simple , clean doner cars.

Seeya

Bob
>> --
>> David D. Nelson
>> http://evalbum.com/1328
>> ===================== Zebart, oh yes I remember that===============
>
> David, in the mid sixties when I was in High School and Community College,
> My Dad liked AMC autos, we had about four. And local Zebart shops did
> after
> market undercoating with zinc loaded wax, then AMC made Zebarting a
> standard
> upgrade and did it to every car they built at the factory. Back then
> other
> cars rusted and so we said, "On a quiet night you can hear a Ford rust!"
> (;-)) And, "Chevrolet, Chevrolet, pick it up? No, let it lay..."
> Regards,
> Dennis Miles, (Director / CEO)
> Electric Vehicle Technical Institute Inc.
> Tampa Bay Region, Florida, USA
> Phone (863) 289 - 0690
> "We provide Mentoring, Small Group Instruction, and Hands-On training for
> the EV Technicians: Building, Converting, Repairing, and Servicing the
> Electric Vehicles of Today, and the Future."
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[EVDL] Very Positive EV article in the LA Times

EVDL List — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:05:23 GMT

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-neil20-2009nov20,0,5609464.column

He got to drive around in the Leaf and was impressed....

TiM

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[EVDL] Vectrix - Decisions decisions - help needed

EVDL List — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:35:26 GMT

As you guys may know - vectrix have gone fairly belly-up although they
have offers of purchasers and hesketh motorcycles have bought the rights
to resell under the name of Hesketh in the uk.

Now... there are numerous reports of problems with these motorbikes in
from various people around the world including weak cells in the battery
string to main fuses blowing (this fuse is completely inaccessible
without about 30-45 mins of dismantling) and issues such as less than
half of the battery range quoted (see weak cells above) along with
batteries being replaced under warranty in less than 11,000 miles.

Having said all that.... unfortunately a year ago i spent 5 days in the
company of a 'loan' vectrix and fell in love with the way it rode (even
though it was slower than the RF900 suzuki i was used to.) loved the
'geek'ness of it and just the fun of riding past petrol stations - the
silence etc...hell i dont need to tell you lot what its like.

Anyhow back then the price of a vectrix was $18,000 NZD (new zealand
dollar). Today I have the opportunity to buy a NEW vectrix for
approximately $8000 - $8500 (Depending on fluctuations of currency etc)

Now bearing in mind although this is new - there is NO warranty - no
comeback if it ceases to function after day 1 - the batterypack is NIMH
and alot of its systems are not open source.

Of course - I still want it - but i still worry - im not loaded with
money and like anything there are a few horror stories out there about
these bikes and their way of unceremoniously failing without warning
that and the range being somewhat closer to 40km than 100km (which was
the original manu claims - to be honest i only got about 55km on a new
bike anyhow)

So.... what do i do... wait til theres something newer and warranted....
buy it because its actually quite well made - its a solid feeling real
bike capable of around town speed perfectly.

Or what..... agggggghhhhhh

I guess what really is the problem is fear

Thoughts people ?

Cheers

Chris

Auckland

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[EVDL] Vectrix - Decisions decisions - help needed

EVDL List — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:15:45 GMT

Re: [EVDL] Slightly OT: Rust prevention was Re: Start up a RENT YOUR PACK OF BATTERIE

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:55:33 GMT

[quote]On 18 Nov 2009 at 19:49, David Nelson wrote:

> Undercoating does help.

Yes, but it's less essential today since more vehicles contain more
galvanized steel, and innercoating is much better than the spray paint used
inside panels in the 1960s and 1970s. Automakers give much more thought to
how moisture is kept away from the steel than they did in those days. They
have to, since now most provide rustout warranties.

Besides, the more of that rustproofing and undercoating gunk you apply, the
more the vehicle weighs, and that makes a difference in EVs.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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[EVDL] TIME Article on EV's

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:46:11 GMT

Took great issue with a recent TIME article on EV's Sent the following
Letter to the Editor...

Article read:
As Electric Cars Arrive, Where Will They Plug In?

Check it out and add your own voice at:

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1940117,00.html
----------------------------------------------------
Dear TIME:
Take Great issue with your first LINE. ."There are probably fewer =

than 1,500 plug-in electric vehicles on the road"

In our City alone One of our EV Dealers has sold OVER 300 Road Worthy =

Electric Cars. And this does not count a growing fleet of TESLA =

Roadsters, and dozens of Home Built Converted gas cars to Electric.

Check out the ( www.EV Photo Album ) for a few thousand more.

California's brief experiment with EV's in the mid 90's found that even =

with HUNDREDS of public charging stations, 95% of EV Owners charged AT =

HOME every evening. The so-called =93Infrastructure=94 is already HERE.

The Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) calculates that 80% of =

all the motor cars in America could be Electric Tomorrow night, and if =

they charged at home off peak, that there would be no need for any =

further electric generation than what we already have. Please do more =

research before publication=85

Steve Lough
President
Seattle EV Association
Chapter of the National EAA(www.eaaev.org)

------------------------------------------------------------------

PS: For those of you who get e-mail from CalCar.org, please take the =

time to read the OpEd which Thomas Friedman recently wrote in the NY =

Times... He's MY kind of guy.....
-- =

Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 524 1351
Cell: 206 850 8535
e-mail: xxx@xxx.xxx
web: http://www.seattleeva.org

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[EVDL] Insightless MPG

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:28:00 GMT

Hi,

Yesterday there was a NiMh battery Insight email but can't remember who but a guy at the EV show here asked me what the MPG would be on my 70 mpg Insight if I removed all the hybrid stuff & dropped a couple hundred pounds what would the MPG be?. Does enyone know, has it been done? (Probably whimpy acceleration though.)

(But the DC converter that supplies the access 14V wouldn't work I don't think.)

I'm thinking about going plug-in LiFePO4 though.

have a renewable energy day,

Mark

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[EVDL] Business Contest

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:25:29 GMT

Have a green business idea? Are you social-justice minded? Want to incorporate green practices into your expanding business? Love cities, the arts, technology, local food, community and diversity? Submit your business plan to the PBCIP Equity Capital Competition - Top prize up to $30,000! email xxx@xxx.xxx for more info.

Joe Bonaparte

856-296-6643

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Re: [EVDL] Slightly OT: Rust prevention was Re: Start up a RENTYOUR PACK OF BATTERIES

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:45:01 GMT

[quote]Bob Rice wrote:
> And VW Rabbits, too! Great car to convert, sturdy, handy aftermarket
> parts, etc. But RUST BUCKETS! The #$%^ windshields leaked in the Drivers
> side in particular, pissing water down behind the dash, attacking the door
> posts, you had to LIFT the door up, to close it! The fuse box, or strip got
> wet, causing endless electrical issues, Oh, same for older Jettas,
> too!When's the L:AST time ya saw a Rabbit in places where there is weather?
> Rumer has it that there are STILL Rabbits, etc,Out West? In that I have a 20
> year old Jetta is no small miricle, It WAS undercoated and musta led a
> charmed life in it's early years?Well for that matter any OLDER Datsuns' The
> White Zombie woulda been mulch 20 YEARS ago, had it been born on the Least
> Coast!Sure miss those simple, computerless cars! Hard around here to find
> basic, simple , clean doner cars.

The key to Rabbits is to understand that the gutters under the window go
to two drains, under the hood, right in front of the door. For some
unknown reason VW put rubber things in the drain holes that would either
get cemented together with organic material or otherwise clogged. Once
that happened water would overflow into the car and make a mess.

My 84 Rabbit did this, I thought the windshield was leaking. 30 seconds
with a garden hose and the problem went away forever. Sad, VW seems to
have a desire to install rust as a factory option (the 914 was the best
example of this).

I miss that GTI. What finally killed it was the fuel pump blowing a line
and pouring gas under the car. Body however was fine (got rid of in 2004)

Chris

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[EVDL] ev computers??

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:16:00 GMT

CgpTaW5jZSBJIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBkb2luZyBjb252ZXJzaW9ucy B0aGUgb25seSB0aGluZyBJIGZv
dW5kIG91dCBhYm91dCB0aGUgY2FycyBJQ0UsIEVDTSBpcyB0aG F0IGl0IGRyaXZlcyB0aGUgc3Bl
ZWQtMCwgdGhhdHMgYWxsIGl0cyB1c2VkIGZvciB3aGVuIHlvdS B0YWtlIG91dCB0aGUgSUNFLCB0
aGUgRUNNIGhhcyBubyBtb3JlIGR1dGllcyB0byBkbyBleGNlcH QgdGhlIHNwZWVkbywgd2hlbiBJ
bSBkb25lIHdpdGggdGhlIGNvbnZlcnNpb24gaSBjdXQgYWxsIH RoZSB3aXJlaW5nIHdoaWxlIHRo
ZSBjYXIgaXMgcnVubmluZyBpbiBnZWFyIGFuZCBrZWVwaW5nIG FuIGV5ZSBvbiB0aGUgc3BlZWQt
b8KgIG9uZSBzZXQgb2Ygd2lyZXMgYXQgYSB0aW1lLiAKCldoZW 4gaW0gZG9uZSBhbGwgaSBoYXZl
IGlzIHRoZSBzcGVlZG8gd2lyZWluZyB0byB0aGUgRUNNIGFuZC Bzb21lIDEyIHZvbHQgaW5wdXRz
IGFuZCBncm91bmRzIEFCUyB1c2VzIGEgc2VwZXJhdGUgRUNNLi AKCkFpciBiYWdzIGRvbnQgdXNl
IGEgRUNNLCBpdHMgb24gaW1wYWN0IHN3aXRjaGluZyBhbmQgcm VsYXlzwqDCoCBSRU1FTUJFUiAh
ISEhIcKgwqAga2VlcCBpdCBzaW1wbGUsIGp1c3QgbWFrZSBpdC B3b3JrLCAKCmRvbnQgdHJ5IGFu
ZCByZWludmVudCB0aGUgd2hlZWzCoMKgwqDCoCB3YXluZcKgwq AgZXYtYmx1ZS5jb23CoCAKLS0t
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0gbmV4dCBwYXJ0IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tCk FuIEhUTUwgYXR0YWNobWVudCB3
YXMgc2NydWJiZWQuLi4KVVJMOiBodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuc2pzdS 5lZHUvbWFpbG1hbi9wcml2YXRl
L2V2L2F0dGFjaG1lbnRzLzIwMDkxMTE5L2FlMDBmMDA1L2F0dG FjaG1lbnQuaHRtbCAKX19fX19f
X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX1 9fX18KR2VuZXJhbCBzdXBwb3J0
OiBodHRwOi8vZXZkbC5vcmcvaGVscC8KVW5zdWJzY3JpYmU6IG h0dHA6Ly93d3cuZXZkbC5vcmcv
aGVscC9pbmRleC5odG1sI3VzdWIKVXNhZ2UgZ3VpZGVsaW5lcz ogaHR0cDovL2V2ZGwub3JnL2hl
bHAvaW5kZXguaHRtbCNjb252CkFyY2hpdmUgLyBGb3J1bTogaH R0cDovL2V2ZGwub3JnL2FyY2hp
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aXN0aW5mby9ldgoK

[EVDL] Charging Voltages??

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:16:00 GMT

Hi EVerybody;

Part of the "Getting to Know You" senerio, with a 144 volt S-10; We were
wiring stuff the other nite and had the El-Con PFC-3000 charger going, I
know, I've NEVER heard of them ,ether! But this is what were using. I just
for fun, said" Let's check the voltage on the batteries, was shocked, pun
intended at the VOLTage! Was about 190-200! Gees! Do they NORMALLY go that
high when charging? Of course cutting the charging off it sagged down to
165-70 volts fairly quickly, especially when you DRIVE a bit !The batteries
were bubbling like a Coke that has sat awile, VERY gentle bubbling.So I
wasn't seeing a "full Boil" event. The charger CAME set for 144 volt
charging, so I wasn't TOO concerned. But STILL, you 144 volt guyz see THAT
kinda high voltages? How does the Iota gunna feel, DC to dc, gunna feel,
being stuffed with 200 volts or so?The OTHER choice was to hook up Iota ALL
the time, or just when the key is turned on? Hooking it up so it is only ON
when the truk is being DRIVEN won out. I Have a Sevcon DC to dc in the Jetta
and just leave it ON all the time. I don't know how Iota's feel about
that?I'm useta my Jetta going to 150 plus volts when charged as I only HAVE
a 150 volt meter.Ours ,on the truk, a 200 volter was Pinned!

Just sniffing around on charging voltages.On our 4700 lb S-10 wonder!

Seeya

Bob

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Re: [EVDL] Slightly OT: Rust prevention was Re: Start up a RENTYOUR PACK OF BATTERIES

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:15:51 GMT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Miles"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:31 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Slightly OT: Rust prevention was Re: Start up a RENTYOUR
PACK OF BATTERIES store

> [quote] David Nelson wrote:
>
>> When I was a kid we lived on Majuro in the Marshal Islands in the Pacific
>> Ocean just north of the equator. (You can find it on Google Earth.) Every
>> time we bought a new pickup it went through Guam and was taken to the
>> Zebart
>> undercoating shop and they did basically the same thing that Dennis
>> described. We could actually get over 5 years out of a pickup! By
>> comparison, a non-undercoated pickup would literally rust out in 2 years.
>> I
>> remember my Dad talking about a tiny rust spot he saw one evening on the
>> bumper of the pickup. By the next morning there was a hole clear through
>> the
>> bumper that you could see through! Undercoating does help.

And VW Rabbits, too! Great car to convert, sturdy, handy aftermarket
parts, etc. But RUST BUCKETS! The #$%^ windshields leaked in the Drivers
side in particular, pissing water down behind the dash, attacking the door
posts, you had to LIFT the door up, to close it! The fuse box, or strip got
wet, causing endless electrical issues, Oh, same for older Jettas,
too!When's the L:AST time ya saw a Rabbit in places where there is weather?
Rumer has it that there are STILL Rabbits, etc,Out West? In that I have a 20
year old Jetta is no small miricle, It WAS undercoated and musta led a
charmed life in it's early years?Well for that matter any OLDER Datsuns' The
White Zombie woulda been mulch 20 YEARS ago, had it been born on the Least
Coast!Sure miss those simple, computerless cars! Hard around here to find
basic, simple , clean doner cars.

Seeya

Bob
>> --
>> David D. Nelson
>> http://evalbum.com/1328
>> ===================== Zebart, oh yes I remember that===============
>
> David, in the mid sixties when I was in High School and Community College,
> My Dad liked AMC autos, we had about four. And local Zebart shops did
> after
> market undercoating with zinc loaded wax, then AMC made Zebarting a
> standard
> upgrade and did it to every car they built at the factory. Back then
> other
> cars rusted and so we said, "On a quiet night you can hear a Ford rust!"
> (;-)) And, "Chevrolet, Chevrolet, pick it up? No, let it lay..."
> Regards,
> Dennis Miles, (Director / CEO)
> Electric Vehicle Technical Institute Inc.
> Tampa Bay Region, Florida, USA
> Phone (863) 289 - 0690
> "We provide Mentoring, Small Group Instruction, and Hands-On training for
> the EV Technicians: Building, Converting, Repairing, and Servicing the
> Electric Vehicles of Today, and the Future."
> -------------- next part --------------
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Re: [EVDL] Slightly OT: Rust prevention was Re: Start up a RENT YOUR PACK OF BATTERIE

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:35:36 GMT

[quote] David Nelson wrote:

> When I was a kid we lived on Majuro in the Marshal Islands in the Pacific
> Ocean just north of the equator. (You can find it on Google Earth.) Every
> time we bought a new pickup it went through Guam and was taken to the
> Zebart
> undercoating shop and they did basically the same thing that Dennis
> described. We could actually get over 5 years out of a pickup! By
> comparison, a non-undercoated pickup would literally rust out in 2 years. I
> remember my Dad talking about a tiny rust spot he saw one evening on the
> bumper of the pickup. By the next morning there was a hole clear through
> the
> bumper that you could see through! Undercoating does help.
>
>
> --
> David D. Nelson
> http://evalbum.com/1328
> ===================== Zebart, oh yes I remember that===============

David, in the mid sixties when I was in High School and Community College,
My Dad liked AMC autos, we had about four. And local Zebart shops did after
market undercoating with zinc loaded wax, then AMC made Zebarting a standard
upgrade and did it to every car they built at the factory. Back then other
cars rusted and so we said, "On a quiet night you can hear a Ford rust!"
(;-)) And, "Chevrolet, Chevrolet, pick it up? No, let it lay..."
Regards,
Dennis Miles, (Director / CEO)
Electric Vehicle Technical Institute Inc.
Tampa Bay Region, Florida, USA
Phone (863) 289 - 0690
"We provide Mentoring, Small Group Instruction, and Hands-On training for
the EV Technicians: Building, Converting, Repairing, and Servicing the
Electric Vehicles of Today, and the Future."
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[EVDL] GEM, Suzuki, misc

EVDL List — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:25:59 GMT

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