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Programming Curtis 1238-I can help

67K views 98 replies 15 participants last post by  cricketo 
#1 ·
If you need help programming the Curtis 1238 on a AC system, email me at cruisin@live.com I can also help you with any problems you may be having with the operation of the AC system.
 
#3 ·
You cannot make your own and must be purchsed from Curtis as a kit. Also the software floating around on the web will not work with the 1238. It must be the latest version. Best bet is to buy the 1311-4401 OEM version of the hand held programmer which works real good with 1238 available here cruisin@live.com. You will not believe how much better you can program the 1238 to control a AC motor. Probably the most requested feature is setting up brake regen or brake current. There is a differant need in the programming of the regen/brake depending if you are clutch or clutchless. Both work real good.
 
#4 ·
Actually you can make your own cable, people have done it. I've rented the handheld programmer before and am quite aware of what you can change, but I'll be damned if I'm going to shell out $450-$500 to change settings in a controller that I already bought and paid for. No other controller out there forces you to do so. It's like buying a radio and then having to pay extra to change the station. Also, I'm pretty sure people have gotten the available software to work with the 1238. If I can't I'll just rent a programmer again.
 
#9 ·
This guy said he got it to work, though I don't know what software version he was using.
I have a Curtis 1238 controller and had trouble programming it. The software would never connect.

The problem ended up being the buffer settings for my USB to RS-232 serial converter. Go to device manager, then COM ports. Right click on your adapter and go to properties. On the port settings tab, click advanced. Then turn down any buffers as low as they can go and Especially turn down any delay that might be there. Then it should work.

I tried three different USB-serial cables. One was from Radio Shack, a GigaWare piece of crap that kept giving me the bluescreen. I think that the driver just did not support win7. (By the way, the Curtis software does work on win7 just fine.) The second was a Prolific chip based converter and I still was not able to make it work. The third was an FTDI chip based converter. This is the one that I was able to make work, after I turned the buffers and delay as low as they could go.
http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/elec...gramming-curtis-controller-15.html#post465186
 
#11 ·
You scared people are gonna do this for free?

They've done it (several of them). Those buggy guys have done a lot to get these cables working, but it doesn't work with the code they posted. It works with the code on the 1314 CD. They need the different software, you're right.

In fact, that code they posted doesn't even work with the 1314 PC Programmer I've got.
 
#12 ·
The software must be 2008 or later in order to work for the 1238. And, no one has demontrated that they have made up a interface that will work on a 1238. Its time people stop lying trying to be important on these forums as our pupose should be to help each other. The 1311 older model hand held will not work with the 1238 either. The 1238 is a differant animal when it comes to programming. The newer 1314PC with USB and new software works the best.
 
#17 ·
Its time people stop lying trying to be important on these forums as our pupose should be to help each other.
That's interesting coming from someone who want's to "help" us by selling us over priced programmers and software to use the controller we already paid for. No one is lying to be important, whatever that means, we are trying to find ways to program OUR controllers without being ripped off. I understand your position as a vendor but you aren't exactly helping your potential sales with your current attitude.
 
#13 ·
Actually, I bought one of each (one PC version and one handheld version). The handheld has been used by buddies of mine on their 1238, but I'll humor you and try mine tonight (I just got it back from my buddy yesterday). I've done it before, but I'll take some pictures this time.

If you're so "right" about the 1311, then why is it on the datasheet for the 1236, 1238 and 1238R as a means to program parameters into the controller?
 
#16 · (Edited)
And, like most of the know-it-all salesmen on here that clarify things after the fact ....... it backfired.

The "older Model" programmer is actually a 1307 programmer, which won't work. The 1311 is not the "old style", the 1307 is, but if I'm not mistaken, you can't even buy those anymore. So you're not even right. The "old" style isn't even in the 1311 family. Only 4 are in the 1311 family, 1101, 2201, 3301 and the 4401.

Maybe you should be a little more clear before you start off instead of being so abrasive.

I was just trying to get you to prove your "facts", since you were accusing people of being wrong and being liars.


(p.s. I own a 1311-4401, and a 1314 with the 4401 software and a 1309 interface box)
 
#18 ·
Cruisin;

Are you selling a service here, or offering free advice if people contact you via Email to take you up on the offer to help?
 
#23 ·
YES, I offer free advice to everyone even though I sell the HPEVS products at a reduce cost to forum members. I also tech classes in EV conversion and have been in the industry since 1979. I developed the cell pack using the 18650 cells for a EV and provided all the data to Tesla prior to their making their own design. I probably had the first VW EV to be powered by Li-ion with 29whr and 125mi range in 2008 and still everyday ride today.
 
#19 ·
First of all lets be clear of what I said and did. I havent tried to sell anybody a overpriced programmer or the softare as the previous scammer indicated. I do all the programming at no charge. I dont see any of you offering the above sevices. Secondly, the older model 1311 has differant numbers after the 1311 than the ones I listed. Those are the ones that dont work. Lastly, the other scammer that posted here, has a reputation of trying to correct everybody without the knowledge of the subject matter, and ALWAYS HAS TO BE RIGHT. He knows who he is. I noticed that nobody has come forward with proof of the working home brewed interface using the 06 software. I tried to tell you it wont work, yet the scammer keeps complaining about a overprice programmer and how everybody has made a cludge work. Both you guys need to step up to the plate and stop lying to feel important as a scammer. If the shoe fits, wear it.
 
#21 ·
Lastly, the other scammer that posted here, has a reputation of trying to correct everybody without the knowledge of the subject matter, and ALWAYS HAS TO BE RIGHT. He knows who he is. I noticed that nobody has come forward with proof of the working home brewed interface using the 06 software. I tried to tell you it wont work, yet the scammer keeps complaining about a overprice programmer and how everybody has made a cludge work. Both you guys need to step up to the plate and stop lying to feel important as a scammer. If the shoe fits, wear it.
I guess I'm a failure as a scammer since I don't sell any products :rolleyes: I provided links to the information that I found, I didn't just make it up.
So you'll send me a programmer for free so I can program my controller? If so I guess I was wrong about you.
 
#24 ·
You shouldnt tell others they are wrong because somebody else says they did it, unless you can VERIFY. Dont be a SCAMMER or a PIN HEAD.




QUOTE=JRP3;243834]I guess I'm a failure as a scammer since I don't sell any products :rolleyes: I provided links to the information that I found, I didn't just make it up.
So you'll send me a programmer for free so I can program my controller? If so I guess I was wrong about you.[/QUOTE]
 
#26 ·
You shouldnt tell others they are wrong because somebody else says they did it, unless you can VERIFY. Dont be a SCAMMER or a PIN HEAD.
Again, I sell nothing so I'm not a scammer, and I just touched the top of my head and didn't stick myself, so I guess I'm not a pin head either :D
I must say you are representing your business very well with your attitude. :rolleyes: Obviously I'll be highly recommending your services.
 
#32 ·
But let me say this, I DO however think that Cruisin, with his experience selling systems, has lots to offer people in setting these controllers up. There are many settings, if improperly set, could actually cause failures.

If you're thinking of changing settings, and aren't sure, at least talk to Cruisin' or HPEVS first to verify that it's going to be a correct change or not.

I've been working with Drive systems for years, but I still plan on checking things before I just get in there and start changing parameters.
 
#35 ·
Thankyou TRAVIS, my intent is to make available the programming to those who bought their AC-50 from drop ship dealers and dont provide support. Since my posying I have had 4 people drop by for my offer of ree programming and didnt realize how well everything will run when done right. The most important plan in dealing with a AC system is how to manage regen or braking. Enough said.
 
#36 ·
I have a few questions cruisin:

1) Are you using a brake pot for input to pin 27 to control regen with a second pedal, which when depressed beyond a certain range then depresses the pedal for mechanical brakes? If so, what do you see as the advantage of doing it that way rather than using the Neutral_Braking parameter and accelerator pedal to control regen?

2) What parameter settings do you recommend for maximum vehicle acceleration?

3) What Base_Speed parameter setting are you using, and what is your pack voltage?

I'm using the Neutral_Braking parameter, Regen Limiting Map, Regen_Current_Limit, and accelerator pedal to control regen. The parameters I see that would seem to effect acceleration are Accel_Rate, Gear_Soften, and Drive_Current_Limit. Would be nice to compare notes to see if I've missed something.
 
#37 ·
1) I recommend using the type 2 pot 3 wire which uses pins 17, 18 and 27. I use a 3rd pedal connected to the brake pedal that utilizes the first 2" of travel for the pot and the balance for the disk brakes, which are hardly ever used. Regen should be set around 3 for clutchless and whatever you want for clutch type. I prefer using clutchless and a setting of 3 which eliminates regen with pedal off. All regen is then controlled naturally with the brake pedal just like a hybrid. Some people like to use the accelerator pedal for throttle and brake like a golf cart, but you use energy to coast.

2) Acceleration should be set to .1.

3) Base speed should be set at default. Dont change any motor parameters using the AC-50 as the parameters where set up between Curtis and HPEV to ensure the proper compatability. If there is some performance improvments in changing the parameters I am not aware of them.

4) Gear_Soften could be set to .1 but I havent seen much differance here.

5) I use 70% on brake current due to light car, 2001 lbs. Heavier car could use more. Using too much will skid the wheels on a rear drive light car. Nose dive on front wheel car.

6) 100% 0n Drive_Current is good.

I hope this helps you to make your ride better.



I have a few questions cruisin:

1) Are you using a brake pot for input to pin 27 to control regen with a second pedal, which when depressed beyond a certain range then depresses the pedal for mechanical brakes? If so, what do you see as the advantage of doing it that way rather than using the Neutral_Braking parameter and accelerator pedal to control regen?

2) What parameter settings do you recommend for maximum vehicle acceleration?

3) What Base_Speed parameter setting are you using, and what is your pack voltage?

I'm using the Neutral_Braking parameter, Regen Limiting Map, Regen_Current_Limit, and accelerator pedal to control regen. The parameters I see that would seem to effect acceleration are Accel_Rate, Gear_Soften, and Drive_Current_Limit. Would be nice to compare notes to see if I've missed something.
 
#38 ·
Thanks.

What makes you say you use energy to coast using the accelerator pedal for braking? Seems if I hold the pedal so that battery current reads zero, I should not be using any energy from the pack. I can do that easily with a Hall throttle, was sometimes difficult with a pot box as it would sometimes jump around. Also of course depends on how touchy the throttle is - how the throttle map is set up.

I'm using the parameters you stated for Accel and Gear_Soften - the minimum settings. The manual describes how to set base speed. I think I'll try it and see what value the controller posts for base speed. I expect it would depend on pack voltage.

I would think one advantage of using a separate pedal and brake input as you do for regen would be that you could set it up fairly high, 70% or so like you use, and most of the time you wouldn't go that high but when you need to brake quickly you would use more, adding to your mechanical braking and reducing stopping distance. I've limited it to 55% using the accelerator pedal. What Hall throttle are you using for the brake input?

I don't like the method of using a pressure transducer on the original brake pedal to actuate regen, as even with a light touch of the pedal I think the mechanical brakes will drag somewhat reducing the energy you get from regen, and the more you depress the pedal to get more regen the more frictional loss in the mechanical brakes.

Have more photos on how you set up the third pedal?
 
#40 ·
The manual describes how to set base speed. I think I'll try it and see what value the controller posts for base speed. I expect it would depend on pack voltage.
What do you expect to see from altering the base speed?
I would think one advantage of using a separate pedal and brake input as you do for regen would be that you could set it up fairly high, 70% or so like you use, and most of the time you wouldn't go that high but when you need to brake quickly you would use more, adding to your mechanical braking and reducing stopping distance. I've limited it to 55% using the accelerator pedal.
I was thinking of putting another pot in parallel with the throttle, that way I think I can effectively adjust the amount of regen by changing the off throttle "zero" value.
 
#42 ·
Its true that you CAN coast with 0 amps, but you you need to find the precise point by watching your amp meter to do so. NOT A GOOD IDEA.
I don't find it as difficult as you portray it. Most of the time I am supplying current from the batteries to the controller, just varying how much to control speed, or applying regen to slow for traffic or stop. I usually only coast when there is an opportunity on a slight grade with little traffic, or see a light change from far off and there is no traffic to impede by coasting. In those cases, glancing at the current meter once in a while, which is at eye level on the windshield post about 1 1/2 ft from my head, is no problem. On larger grades I have to apply some regen to stay within the speed limit. I find there isn't really much opportunity to coast, usually due to traffic.

Let me know how your changes to the base speed effects acceleration and other things.
Will post it here. I'm not expecting much difference, but want to check.


I have added a picture of MY pedal assembly which turned out to be the best of all the designs I have come with. VERY VERY smooth in both acceleration and braking and extremely controllable with precision.
Thanks. Looks very clean. Where did you get those Hall throttles?

Use a brake pot 3 wire with switch so that you can hook up the switch for the brake light, otherwise your light will not come on until Disk Bracks are used.
Do you mean the brake pot you use has an integral switch, or are you using a separate switch, or the original switch that was in the car?
That's a downside of using the accelerator pedal for regen. I sometimes have to touch my brake pedal to turn on the brake lights while regening to a stop if someone is close behind, but it is normally not an issue. I've been asking HPEVS for about 6 months or more to add some code to send a signal from a D.O. port on the controller which could be used to drive a relay to turn on brake lights. They have said they will do it, but they are always too busy to get around to it. I may try out your third pedal design for that reason.

If you are using a cheap AC mechanical relay for the 1238, throw it away and get a SSR DC relay off EBAY for about $12.00.
What are you talking about here? The ksi? HPEVS included that relay with the kit, a solid state automotive type.
 
#44 ·
I don't find it as difficult as you portray it. Most of the time I am supplying current from the batteries to the controller, just varying how much to control speed, or applying regen to slow for traffic or stop. I usually only coast when there is an opportunity on a slight grade with little traffic, or see a light change from far off and there is no traffic to impede by coasting. In those cases, glancing at the current meter once in a while, which is at eye level on the windshield post about 1 1/2 ft from my head, is no problem. On larger grades I have to apply some regen to stay within the speed limit. I find there isn't really much opportunity to coast, usually due to traffic.
I agree on all points.
Thanks. Looks very clean. Where did you get those Hall throttles?
They look like Kelly units, though Kelly gets them from some other supplier.
Do you mean the brake pot you use has an integral switch, or are you using a separate switch, or the original switch that was in the car?
He's probably using the micro switch in the Hall throttles.
That's a downside of using the accelerator pedal for regen. I sometimes have to touch my brake pedal to turn on the brake lights while regening to a stop if someone is close behind, but it is normally not an issue. I've been asking HPEVS for about 6 months or more to add some code to send a signal from a D.O. port on the controller which could be used to drive a relay to turn on brake lights. They have said they will do it, but they are always too busy to get around to it. I may try out your third pedal design for that reason.
Can't you just use the throttle micro switch to turn on the brake lights when off throttle?
 
#48 ·
Maybe you could switch it to a NC unit? Or mount a NC switch that contacts the throttle arm when off throttle. Of course it would have to be switched by ignition as well or your brake lights will be on when parked.
In reality I rarely shift, I do 99% of my driving in second gear, so I probably won't be throwing syncros for a long time. However, since in any clutchless setup you have to match motor and transmission speeds to shift without grinding with or without regen I'm not sure why my shifting would wear any more than no regen shifting.
 
#49 ·
Maybe you could switch it to a NC unit? Or mount a NC switch that contacts the throttle arm when off throttle. Of course it would have to be switched by ignition as well or your brake lights will be on when parked.
I don't see how a simple on/off switch could work. Throttle position for regen varies, as it depends on relative motor rpm and wheel rpm. The wheels have to be driving the rotor, and that occurs at different motor rpm and hence different throttle positions depending on vehicle speed and gearing. Such a switch works fine on a brake pedal like cruisin uses since when you depress the pedal, no matter how much, you are applying some regen and the brake lights come on. Doesn't work that way on the accelerator pedal.


Yes, its the relay that is provided and its not SS. Its not even DC. When they fail, they are in the closed position. For $12.00, it isnt worth taking a chance.
SSR's fail shorted, and cheap ones are not reliable. I'll look for a replacement.
 
#50 ·
I don't see how a simple on/off switch could work. Throttle position for regen varies, as it depends on relative motor rpm and wheel rpm. The wheels have to be driving the rotor, and that occurs at different motor rpm and hence different throttle positions depending on vehicle speed and gearing. Such a switch works fine on a brake pedal like cruisin uses since when you depress the pedal, no matter how much, you are applying some regen and the brake lights come on. Doesn't work that way on the accelerator pedal.
You don't want your brake light to come on with light to moderate regen, and your strongest regen will be when you are off the pedal, or nearly so. When I want to stop quickly my foot is off the pedal. I think you could find a position for a switch that would work well most of the time. I can't say it's been an issue for me but I have my regen set a little lower than you and I don't usually drive in heavy traffic.
 
#54 ·
More than likely had the source voltage on the wrong terminal. The specifications from the electronics industry will tell you what will happen if you dont connect the way it is designed to. I am supprised that people who have these failures dont tell the details to others and others believe them. Do a google and you will see that there is loads of info regarding this subject which I guess nobody cared to look at. Spend some time now to see if you can prove me wrong which seems to be evrybodys interest here instead of giving factual help.
 
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