DIY Electric Car Forums banner

water powered ev???

8K views 44 replies 11 participants last post by  Tatsushige 
#1 ·
Ok, folks, it has been out since 05' I know because I saw the tv ad in 05. Explain this one:
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
water powered EV, why can't I buy one? Why isn't this on the news?:cool:
 
#2 ·
That looks like a great car. I saw it said you can only lease it for 3 years and you have to live in california and it costs $600 a month and they are leasing only 200 of them. I hope buy the time they start actually selling them in Florida, they will cost less. Many luxury cars like lexus don't get that much money for a lease, so even though it is honda, it better be a luxury car
 
#7 ·
And another thing to add, most production (~95%) of hydrogen is usually from reforming fossil fuels, and not electrolysis. Reforming still produces CO2 as a byproduct even though the fuel cell does not. A lot of the production uses Methane, Propane, Ethanol and Gasoline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy

Still uses fossil fuels and still releases CO2 (although in lower amounts).
 
#9 ·
Not to mention that by the time you produce, compress, transport, and run it through a fuel cell you've wasted 3/4 or more of the energy used to produce it and you have to haul around a 10,000 psi pressure vessel inside your car. Not to mention needing all new infrastructure to make it viable. I'd rather stick electricity in batteries myself.
 
#10 ·
the hydrogen used for PEM cells in Home power plants, do use reforming, of natural gas.
The Hydogen for supplying autos, in Calif, and west coast is done by electrolysis and stored locally to the generation point.
the Further north you go on the West coast the more Hydro power, and now Wind power is used for the electrolysis.

The Biggest electrolysis Hydrogen plants are in BC. The supply the Fuel cell Bus Fleet.
 
#13 ·
If you are throwing away 3/4+ of the electricity you need 4x more solar, wind, hydro, etc. to make it work than just putting the energy into batteries. So I'd say it's much worse for the environment than batteries. So you're taking an source of electricity that's already expensive and making it's capitol costs 4x higher. Not even mentioning the costs or inefficiencies of the fuel cells; which when compared to batteries are pretty bad.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Why would you need 1000 ah at 765 volts? That's 3/4 of a MW/h. What do you want to do drive 1000 miles on a charge?

And I hate to tell you this, but the energy density of hydrogen after you run it through a fuel cell isn't much better than batteries by volume when you include all of the support equipment to carry and move it around at pressure.
 
#16 ·
The bottom line here is that hydrogen is not now nor will it ever be a viable source of fuel for road vehicles. It's not a matter of opinion really, the laws of physics will not allow portable storage of enough hydrogen to drive a car very far. You can throw all the money in the world at it but it still won't be viable.

Further, hydrogen production takes boat-loads of energy, more than what it returns... Again, the laws of physics... Argue it all you want, it will never work...


Also, the fuel cell car is still not a water powered car...
 
#26 ·
you are so right *bows down to almighty science that know all* NOT! look, this is a step in the right direction, just because you do not know a different way don't knock this one. Besides if it wasn't the least bit lucrative do you REALLY think that Honda would produce them? so your whole theory about using more energy that you gain is out. do you proofread what you post before you post it? I admit that it is not water powered, you got me, I got a little carried away there, only bi-product is water is what I meant to say. FYI I built a car that runs on water, and uses an ICE, via a very particular process that I am currently awaiting a provisional patent on. The secret? over-unity HA! you wish. no the secret is an already existing "process" that is "present" and calculating the most efficient power/frequency in the circuit while calculating the water as part of the circuit. Can you say semiconductor? This works with all forms of water, recycled, hot, cold, dirty, clean, and even...... yes, distilled "interestingly enough it is an excellent insulator unless MOTIVATED properly" Thank you Stan Meyer and Daniel Dingle for excellent Ideas. Now for the hitch, a similar technology is being used by the defense department and is currently in use in the Star Wars program,and has been since the 70's thanks again Stan Meyer, and yes, Daniel Dingle. Electricity from a fuel cell? but think about it, if it goes one way, why wouldn't it go the other, like a peltier junction, add electrical energy and it gets hot and cold, add hot and cold and electrical energy is produced, BIG HINT! HINT HINT!!! depends on what side of E=MC2 you swap around with algebraically, you know mass, energy, and the speed of light? guy named Einstein? he's not that important. light is substitutable for electrical potential for all intents and purposes in this case. I produce hydrogen and oxygen on demand, separate them with an electromagnetic field "they are charged particles" and direct them into the engine, this is produced on demand, and stops production when the engine stops, it can be used on any size engine, to produce as much "fuel" as necessary. This system also has other uses, such as water purification, heating and cooling, cooking, welding, electrical power generation. If you want to know how it works, or want to see a demo, suck it. I have already decided that this technology is not suitable for the general public, and I have my own reasons for doing so. This is not a joke, scam, or "free" energy. Now back on the subject at hand. I admit that this technology is not very feasible right now, however, with that said there are a lot of unknowns, how is the hydrogen stored? is it safe? Honda surely wouldn't sell something that is unsafe would they? I have some ideas on this but I'll keep my mouth shut for now. A hydrogen station is not available everywhere in Cali, what is the cost effectiveness of utilizing an at home fill device? vs lets say current EV chargers. I say lets stop bashing each other and this budding new technology and give it some support this is probably one of the best moves to actually "helping the environment" that we can make. I personally would like to know a lot more about it so let's not speculate shall we? this could end up going the way of the dinosaur and not making it's round again until our grandkids are born "much like the early EV's of yesteryear" No offense intended, just check yourself:cool:
 
#19 ·
you can say the same for EV with muliti-million $ loans to Tesla and Fisker.
Not to mention the Gov subsidies to the Japanese versions.
if you start from Batteries Technologies, and production.
Be sure to factor in the environmental cost as well.

The fact some Fuel Cell vehicles are running now, says there are ways to make it work, and with electrolysis, method of generation is envirormentaly better.
 
#29 ·
I would be interested not only in the figures and financing for all non ICE vehicles
http://electricandhybridcars.com/

including the effects on the environment which I find hard to quantify
me too, I am also curious about this. I think that the more that we say we can't do something the more we limit ourselves, at one time we "couldn't" travel to 100 mph or we would simply rattle our molecules apart, we "couldn't" run a mile in under 4 minutes, our bodies would fall apart, and right now we "can't" do what we believe that is unachievable.
 
#33 ·
Toyota and a few others here looked at fuel cells, a few buses are running about with fuel cells and from what I have read, not much is happening with them. The push is on here for pure EV with Batteries and recharging stations that you just drive over without plugging in ....

At the moment the buzz here is EV buses and trucks.. This is a Uni designed pure EV bus






This uses the same in wheel motor system and chassis system as the Eliica did.




I do not see Honda running with the Fuel Cell car, at the moment all their money is going in to Hybrids .. The FCX was just a test vehicle and Honda has been playing with the FCX since 1999 with either Hydrogen, Methanol or Ultracapacitors and they still have not mass produced the car....So I would not be holding your breath waiting for a Fuel Cell car .... :D
 
#38 ·
I was not keenly aware of the development of this by Honda since 99' this is interesting. you are correct, more Honda "bucks" are being spent in the hybrid bracket, it is more commercially viable for them, and obviously more lucrative.
 
#34 ·
now this is the meaty stuff, this is more or less what I was talking about, what is the large scale or long term effects of hydrogen use as a fuel. Thanks for that. is the juice worth the squeeze? all other things being equal, we gotta find another way. so if ev ain't the way, and hydrogen ain't the way, gas/petrol ain't eh way what is the way? compressed air?
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7000/
 
#39 ·
now this is the meaty stuff, this is more or less what I was talking about, what is the large scale or long term effects of hydrogen use as a fuel. Thanks for that. is the juice worth the squeeze? all other things being equal, we gotta find another way. so if ev ain't the way, and hydrogen ain't the way, gas/petrol ain't eh way what is the way? compressed air?
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7000/

EVs are the way, but BEV and not fuel cells ... as for compressed air, see that in the 70's and no chance on gods green earth will any car producer use it. Like it or not BEV are the way to go.
 
#35 ·
cool vid:
 
#36 ·
don't put much into the "ad perpetuum" at the end of the vid. Is there a future in this mix/hybrid of hydrogen fuel cell and an ev that is sustainable, low in overall pollution, and low in operation and production cost? I believe the answer may be a few years ahead of us. The same can be said for L-ion tech too.
 
#41 ·
motainai desu ne!
what do you mean by BEV?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top