DIY Electric Car Forums banner

Constant Voltage and Constant Current - How to.

6K views 24 replies 6 participants last post by  Amberwolf 
#1 ·
Hi,

I know this is a really silly question but hey, I'm a silly question kinda guy and my electronics knowledge peeters out when it comes to battery charging....
So... If I wanted to charge a battery by constant voltage, I just set my psu to always supply that voltage, but if I wwanted to supply a constant current how would I do that.

If I charged a LifePo battery in constant current mode at say 10A, what would the voltage do? Would this need to be set at 4.2v or would it just slowly rise up to a point where I then switch to constant voltage of 4.2v?

Thanks
 
#2 ·
Hi,

I know this is a really silly question but hey, I'm a silly question kinda guy and my electronics knowledge peeters out when it comes to battery charging....
So... If I wanted to charge a battery by constant voltage, I just set my psu to always supply that voltage, but if I wwanted to supply a constant current how would I do that.

If I charged a LifePo battery in constant current mode at say 10A, what would the voltage do? Would this need to be set at 4.2v or would it just slowly rise up to a point where I then switch to constant voltage of 4.2v?

Thanks

Let say you have a Lithium cell with a max charge voltage of 3.65v and the max amps is 30 amps on the cell.

You have a 30 amp power supply that can vary from 3 volts to 20 volts.

In constant voltage mode you would set the power supply to 3.65 volts, if the cell is near empty the power supply will charge at 30 amps and as the battery gets charged, the amps will be reduced as voltage goes up on the cell, til it gets to the max voltage you set for..3.65v. At that point the cell is full.

If you want to charge constant current, you then crank the power supply all the way up, to get max amperage, untill the cell hits 3.65v, and then you have to either stop, or reset your power supply to 3.65v, constant voltage, to finish the charging.

Battery chargers have certain curves programmed in to them, to do the CC/CV automaticly.

Roy
 
#3 ·
Thanks Roy,

So if I wanted to do a first charge (CC then CV) on some 90AH lifepo (TS) up to 4.2v at 0.1-0.3C (9-27A), is this easy to do on a standard lab psu with only voltage control or would I need to sit and watch it constantly altering the voltage to acheive a constant current?

Dan
 
#4 ·
Thanks Roy,

So if I wanted to do a first charge (CC then CV) on some 90AH lifepo (TS) up to 4.2v at 0.1-0.3C (9-27A), is this easy to do on a standard lab psu with only voltage control or would I need to sit and watch it constantly altering the voltage to acheive a constant current?

Dan

Yes, you would have to watch the batteries to make sure you dont exeed the max voltage. The only other thing you could do is put a voltage alarm on it, to notify you when it reaches the voltage, but considering the price on those batteries, I would watch them..lol

Actually you could go past that voltage, but the problem is, you would not know when the overcharge occured.

Let me give you an example....if you had a 5 gallon bucket, and you wanted to fill it all the way up without care how fast, you would take another 5 gallon bucket, fill it up and dump it in to the other bucket, and you would know it will be full, no matter how fast you pour it in.

But in your cell there is no good indicator of how empty the cell is, unless you count amp houres in and out somehow. But if your battery was charged to full potential, and you counted the AH you took out, in theory you could then put in max amps, untill you reach the time limit of amps you took out, give and take some of the losses.

Roy
 
#6 ·
So.... if I had a bench PSU that had a controllable voltage but not a controllable current, but had a max current out I could set the supply to 4.2v and just let the supply crank out its max current until it hits its voltage limit?
i.e. 25A PSU whacks out 25A until cell V = 4.2v then the psu runs at constant voltage for a while.
 
#7 ·
Just be sure that it is a current limited supply. There are quite a few supplies that will blow a fuse, burn up, or just shut down as they try to provide the amperage needed to match the capacity but the amperage is more than it can take and it isn't limited. I have a set of Meanwell supplies that behave this way by shutting down when it is well beyond its rated capacity(I think 180% or something) and it comes back after a few seconds from the hiccup. Meanwell makes a current-limited constant voltage supply, I just don't know the model number or which category it is on in the site as I haven't looked into it enough to know. I'm charging NiMh at high voltage so I take three Meanwells in series and one constant current supply capable of a big voltage swing and use that. My strategy isn't appropriate for your application but just be sure that the power supply you are using won't pop when you connect it and power it up.
 
#8 ·
Hmm, I'm looking to buy a good PSU without blowing out my already blown out budget.
The TS manual specifies an initial charge at 0.1-0.3C to 4.2v. Would I be able to get away with an initial charge current of 0.0333C. i.e. considerably less than specified? I can see no reason this would cause issues other than taking more time. This means I can buy a cheaper bench PSU to do the charging.

Thoughts?
 
#9 · (Edited)
Well, high-current lab PSUs tend to be expensive. I have a Sorensen DCS55-55 here on indefinite loan, and it'll do up to 55V at up to 55A. But it also costs like $1000 *used* or over twice that new, most places I see them in a google search. :eek:

But sometimes, like me, you get lucky, and someone has one that they don't need right now that you can borrow, rent, or buy cheap.

Sometimes you find them in surplus sales or auctions really cheap.

Good lab supplies like Sorenson can also be paralleled for higher current, so you can buy a bunch of smaller much cheaper ones and set them up per the manual so that one of them controls the others, essentially.


I don't see any reason you can't charge them at a much lower rate than usual, since the initial charges are at such lower than normal-use rates already. But I'm not a TS expert (don't have mine yet) and you should wait till someone else chimes in. ;)
 
#13 ·
I've bought used Hewlett-Packard supplies on eBay, in the 100 to 400 watt range. The older ones really give up nothing to the new models in terms of the quality of their output or regulation, you just don't get the digital display or computer control interface, and they are available in various output power ratings and with multiple independent outputs. Shipping can cost $$$ because they're heavy, though.
 
#11 ·
Great, thanks Amberwolf. I may have to chat up some electrical engineers.....
My local electronics store does a constant current one that can do 2x3A so 6A in parrel with current limiting so I may just bite the bullet and get that once someone else chimes in with how TS cells like their first charge!

Anyone? :D
 
#15 ·
I did manage to find this cheap PSU in a electronics chain. 0-30v, 0-5A current limit. cheap enough to buy two and parallel them up to get a happy 10A without destroying by budget.... time to do some overtime....

I even had the guy in the store tell me the best way to get 10A out of two of them was to connect them in series :eek:. I said he should give it a go.....
 
#16 · (Edited)
Bwahaha.... I love hearing these guys try to "talk tech"; I stopped trying to teach them many years ago after too many "you're an idiot, of COURSE I know what I'm talking about" responses. I just feel sorry for the customers that don't know and believe them. :(

FWIW, since I don't see a brand on there that you can check anything with, I think you should use a volt and current meter that you really trust the readings of to verify that the PSU gauges actually read correctly at various points on them. In my experience, equipment that does not have a prominent brand name embossed upon it and which is not prominently displayed in the ad copy is not trustworthy until I have actually used it successfully for a while. :)

Back in my ham days there were not that many companies making "cheap stuff" in this kind of thing and less worry about it, but nowadays there is more of that than new good stuff. Personally I'd rather find a used good brand than buy a new cheap one, since typically they can be had for the same price. :) But I also have a personal principle of "recycle something else first" before I buy a new item, since we already have so much waste around us.
 
#18 · (Edited)
yeah, since the intarweb became commonly used with aol and the like, ham dropped off quickly. still in use a little, but not much.

I was KA5TWP, but I let mine lapse; traded my equipment to a friend for other stuff over a decade ago since I hadn't used it for a decade before that, except for turning on the old cast-face Hammarlund receiver now and then.

For me most of the fascination was talking with people I knew I could never travel to meet--it was like alien contact in scifi, especially when bounce'd be right and I got somebody in Russia or New Zealand or something. Once the internet got big and popular, most of what I wanted to do was more easily done via newsgroups and email, and later forums like this one. :) Especially since it didn't have to be realtime; I could talk to a lot more people that way.
 
#19 ·
ah... you hammers.... I just had the joys of little FM transmitters from radioshack for my own 300m pirate station when I was 13... :p

Maybe I should look at designing/ building an opensource single lifepo charger that people can make on a shoe string budget.

To isolate or not to isolate, that is the question.....
 
#20 ·
Hoorah! Ebay rules supreme! I manage to find a powerten P62 rackmount lab psu. Its CC, CV, 0-100v, 0-20A. It's big and noisy but it also has voltage feedback and remote current and voltage control via a 25way dsub and voltage scaling.

I'm so happy. I've been discovering the joys of what 20A does to things! :D:eek:
 
#22 ·
KFF? Killed for fun? I work in stage electrics so am well aware of how lethal a big current is! Thanks for the concern though. Most people forget that there's more danger in an electric car than there is sticking your fingers in a three phase socket. I even stopped wearing my wedding ring. Most of my favorite war stories start "I was tailing in to a live bus bar...." And end "as I hit the far wall....".
:rolleyes:
 
#25 · (Edited)
Kentucky Fried Finger. ;)

I've gotten my fair share even just with my crazy ebike experiments. And that doesn't even count using the welder. :rolleyes:

Oh, and yeah, working with battery powered or DC stuff it ain't even gonna let go. At least with AC you got a slight chance of a muscle spasm jerking you away at a zero crossing or something.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top