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Why are you keeping your gas car?

6K views 24 replies 10 participants last post by  bgeery 
#1 ·
If you primary car is an electric, why are you wasting money owning a second gas car?

With the money saved by not having those car payments, extra insurnace payments, and maintenance you could be renting vehicles as needed and let someone else take care of all that. Your insurance is even free if you pay for your rental with your credit card. You could rent probably 10 ten days a week before the rental charges equaled all the cost of owning a late model car.
 
#4 ·
You could rent a car every other weekend over the summer and come out ahead over owning another car. So you do it out of an emotional response, not a financial one. Valid reason. Of course, 150 miles is within the range of current battery technology, and you could own an EV that would cover that usage as well.
 
#7 ·
You seem to be assuming everyone has car payments and high insurance rates.

I normally drive my EV but in winter my range goes down and I will have to drive one of my gas cars. One is another pickup exactly like my EV but gas. Insurance is around $20 a month and it's long paid for (actually it was free). My other gas car is AWD, something sometimes needed around here and well, it's just way fun to drive (2001 Audi S4). It's paid for also and actually my insurance is pretty cheap too because I drive it so little.

I ride my bike mostly during the summer. I could actually make do with out any car if I wanted; but I don't want to. I love driving. The EV is fun and efficient but it all boils down to I'm a car guy. I live 40 minutes away from a world class race track and until I can afford $25k out of pocket expense to build an EV for the track, $100 in race gas goes a long way...
 
#8 ·
I got rid of my gas daily driver when I went with an EV, but I do still have a gas van. It's 13 years old, only has 77k miles, and is cheap to insure and register. It holds 8 people, tows 5k pounds, and can go 400 miles/tank. Or unlimited miles/day with gas stops, of course. It has a 35 gallon gas tank which makes a nice backup storage for my generator as well for emergencies. I keep it because I like it. It's convenient for when I need a long range vehicle, or need to move big stuff around. I suppose I could rent, but what a pain! No thanks. Plus, I sort of doubt there is anyone around that will rent you a truck to pull your own trailer.

And at my average of 5k miles/year I've put on the van, I really doubt that renting would actually save any money.

just as an example of it's personal value to me, last week a friend called at 7am and asked if I could pick up her kids on the way to school cause she had to get to work early. I was already maxed out with 4 kids in my carpool, but I just took the van instead and fit all 6 kids no problem. I like being able to make last minute decisions like that.
 
#10 ·
I drive a diesel truck that gets about 12-15 MPG depending on the fuel source and driving conditions. I have it to haul a 15000 lb camper to the beach or equipment for my business. I built an ev for 95% of my every day driving, saving at today's diesel prices $25 per 100 ev miles.

It easily covers the yearly tax and monthly insurance of the ev and since the upgrade to lithium a whole lot more. I've averaged 200 miles a week for the last month saving me 200, 149 after insurance. That's $2000 a year, not accounting for oil changes at $100 a pop, $80 air filter occasionally, antifreeze, hoses, belts and expensive diesel engine related breakdowns.
 
#11 ·
I drive a diesel truck that gets about 12-15 MPG depending on the fuel source and driving conditions. I have it to haul a 15000 lb camper to the beach or equipment for my business.
Now that's what we need. An EV that will haul that camper 500 miles on a charge.
 
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#13 ·
My Leaf is now my primary commuter and the second vehicle is my 01 VW Beetle TDI. Fully paid and gets 42 to 48 mpg depending on how I drive the beast. I have had to charge the battery twice now since it has been sitting unused mostly. I drive the electric everywhere I can.

It is a wise thing to have a backup and one that can go further if needed but I would not even consider renting because I'd need to drive my electric to the rental place and leave it until I return. The cost of renting is pretty high if you need to do so more than a few times per year. I also don't want to haul around a gas engine in my electric car that rarely gets used so the hybrid it out. Thank you much but I will keep two cars. Insurance for my secondary vehicle is minimal.
 
#14 ·
Why are you keeping your electric car?

I have a serious question...
Why are you running an electric vehicle when your car could be driven by gasification of wood & other biomass?

* Free energy
* Potential negative carbon footprint
* Heat your home, hot water, generate free electricity ( Even charge your
batteries)

 
#15 ·
Re: Why are you keeping your electric car?

Why are you running an electric vehicle when your car could be driven by gasification of wood & other biomass?
@Wild, It comes down to convenience, usually. I wanted to do a waste veggie-oil conversion before I started my EV, but the thought of needing to get gas meant scrounging through wastebins or asking the chef at work for spare oil was a bit too much. The fact that my commute is 10 miles was the final nail in the coffin. Regardless if you're collecting veggie oil, chopping firewood, or skimming algae... it's the hassle factor.

To the original question, my EV isn't finished yet but when it is it will be my daily driver. I will, however, keep good ol' Tankyota (4WD gas pickup). For the times I need to drive to the mountains for snowboarding, for the times we go to the airport and don't want to park the Lexus at outdoor airport parking (summer hail in Colorado), for the 18th time I help friends move, for the times I get a Christmas tree, for the times I pickup steel rod, for the times I take the dogs to the lake, for the time it's too snowy out... the list goes on and on.

I always laugh at people who think renting is so easy and convenient. I've never gotten through a rental place in less than half an hour. So that's an hour of total time wasted just to go somewhere. Not to mention that renting is NOT cheap, esp. compared to a paid-for cheap truck that literally adds $30 a year for liability insurance.
 
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#16 ·
Re: Why are you keeping your electric car?

I'd have a hard time collecting the biomass for use in such a vehicle. Kinda bulky, Klunky but your rig there looks very nicely done. For folks like you your way is just fine. Just like those that use biodiesel or straight veggie oil for driving their diesels. How much did it cost you to built that gassier? Got some plans for that one? Do you have a build site to look at for information?

Pete :)

Electric is cleaner. Bio gas is still burning but is better than oil. I like your rig.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Re: Why are you keeping your electric car?

I'd have a hard time collecting the biomass for use in such a vehicle. Kinda bulky, Klunky but your rig there looks very nicely done. For folks like you your way is just fine. Just like those that use biodiesel or straight veggie oil for driving their diesels. How much did it cost you to built that gassier? Got some plans for that one? Do you have a build site to look at for information?

Pete :)

Electric is cleaner. Bio gas is still burning but is better than oil. I like your rig.
Sorry that is not my setup, it was designed and built by Vesa Mikkonen of Finland.

While one may think that electric is cleaner that is not true. If you use trees as fuel you are not adding CO2 to the air you are recycling it as opposed to burning fossil fuels. If you partially gassify wood into char you have the option of adding that char to soil which will sequester that carbon while improving the soil to allow plants to thrive, It's a win win situation. You can research on the benefits of Biochar if you like.

If you would like plans on a mobile or stationary gassifier I believe Vessa still has a book available. http://www.ekomobiili.fi/Tekstit/english_etusivu.htm

PS: you can operate a gassifier on wood chips many tree companies would be happy to deliver a few loads for free ;)
 
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#19 ·
Re: Why are you keeping your electric car?

Too bad its not your setup. It is inconvenient because of the cleaning and gathering of the wood or bio mass to use. They do work and if set up correctly they work great but they do require lots of maintaining to keep them in good running condition and you must keep them cleaned out. Then hauling around all that mass. Bio mass does only use renewable carbon and not sequestered OIL carbon. One other issue is that you still have all the ICE junk to keep in good working order too and you must replace the oil, plugs, wires and all that crap.

Electric is simple and clean and real easy. I do not regret buying the Leaf nor do I regret building an electric vehicle either. I am all solar here so for me I am cleaner.
 
#20 ·
No arguments here Gottdi concerning electric other than the drawbacks at present such as battery cost, range and weight. Yes an ICE on producer gas still needs maintenance although not as much depending on the engine and a modern gasifier does not require lot's of maintenance and they can be automated for minimal loading or cleaning.
Still a gasifier set up to produce biochar is one step over solar in reducing one's carbon footprint. Personally my preferred setup is a stationary generator unit that is capable of off grid charging while also using waste heat for home - shop & garden.
I have a different gasifier design than the one pictured still the function of producing wood gas from chips or pellets is similar.
 
#21 ·
I think until fuel cell technlogy becomes viable, financially, and a nationwide network of hydrogen filling stations are installed the gas car will remain.

I think you have a point about renting. I live in town so 95% of journeys could be made in an EV. I need the gas car for long trips to see family and for hoking up the trailer and going camping which I do 3 to 5 times a year. Renting would be cheaper considering that running a car in the UK now csts, on average, a staggering $10,000 per year!!! Cheaper in the US but you're catching us up.

Fuel prices over here are now crazy with the government taking the majrity of the cost in tax!! Robbery!!
 
#22 · (Edited)
I think until fuel cell technlogy becomes viable, financially, and a nationwide network of hydrogen filling stations are installed the gas car will remain.
Hydrogen is a complete waste of time and money. What we need in inductive charging coils placed on the interstate highways. EVs are fine right now for all daily driving. For long trips, the car would charge as it drove on the interstate. This technology is here today, and we could start tomorrow if we choose to. the USA would be saving over a billion dollars a day in foreign oil. Instead, they could be making that power from domestic gas and coal and nuclear and renewable, and also creating high quality jobs that can't be exported.

Makes complete sense, which is why it will probably never be attempted.
 
#23 ·
I think you might be right. I'm an aero design engineer working with mutual inductive decives and the technlogy is here. Politics are:mad: stopping a lot these days.:mad:
 
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#24 ·
Induction chargers are less efficient than a plug. Just place plugs at rest stops along all the highways and be done with it. Fat fast charging outlets so you can have a quick pee break and sandwich break then off on the highway again until the next rest stop or destination. Hydrogen sucks if you need to use electricity to make it. Now if you come up with a better way without using electricity then maybe a fuel cell car will be in the future. Maybe. I won't be holding my breath on that one. The fuel cell cars run great. I got to drive one.

Pete :)
 
#25 ·
Induction chargers are less efficient than a plug. Just place plugs at rest stops along all the highways and be done with it. Fat fast charging outlets so you can have a quick pee break and sandwich break then off on the highway again until the next rest stop or destination.
I thought about just putting up a bunch of Level 3 charging stations at rest stops, but the problem with that approach exclusively, is that you will be charging at least about 30 minutes for every 100 miles of driving. In a 600 mile in a day trip, your sitting at a charger three hours. That's not going to compete with a gas car for most people. It also means you have to haul around a lot more batteries then you otherwise would need. In addition, I don't think there would be anywhere near enough parking spots to support every car running on the interstates.

Sure, the best induction charging is still only 85% efficient, but it would allow non-stop trips, and make EVs not only equal to gas cars, but superior. Think of the increased efficiency of industries like trucking, where the a pare of drivers can run 24 hours if needed. Trains would have a similar efficiency gain, but they can take advantage of overhead wires for power. In fact, I would say induction charging would be the only way to make electric big-rigs workable. Also,with the interstates (and eventually the state routes) covered with inductive charging, the batteries in the cars would only have to cover local driving, meaning smaller battery packs and making EVs more affordable.

I agree that fast level 3 chargers are part of the solution, but induction charging needs to be the final piece that makes EVs a true replacement for oil burning vehicles in every respect.

There is $400 billion dollars a year sent overseas for oil, we could instead spend here finace the change-over to electric. And we would be a more secure nation on top of everything else. How much additional saving would we gain in the defense budgets? Probably another $200 billion a year?
 
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