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Kelly HSE blown Up

28K views 59 replies 10 participants last post by  pedm 
#1 · (Edited)
My Kelly HSE 14801 for SepEx (kostov 9'' 120v). Blown up from the inside... :( what could it be?

It was programmed at 25% and regen. It was taking 120 Amps maximum.

I made a test whit the car, and after arriving to the garage, turned it off. Gone to my living room left the things over the sofa, came back to the car to put in the garage. Turned it back on, the car slided back a bit (i live on a hill), pressed the throttle and the circuit breaker turned off. Something wrong appened, so I followed all the cables and terminals to see if something was wrong, found nothing. Turned the circuit breaker back on. After turned the key on, the controller made an explosion and a lot of black smoke came from its inside.

Before that test it was at 20% of it's power and also I tested it more than one time.

I see people complaining about his controllers. Or it was my fault?

I was thinking about many possibilities to have caused this:
- Because the regen function was activated, and the car was sliding back, pressing the throttle might have shorted something?
- Bad insulation from kelly assembly to the chassis of the car, I mounted the kelly assembly (comes in a metal plate) directly to the structure I made.
- I live on the top of a hill, it was taking 120 amps continuously to climb during 3 minutes before arriving home. Turning back on with the controller hot maybe have caused any problem.


Possible Solutions:
- Opening the controller by myself and trying to fix it, because I lose the contact from kelly. :(
- Buy a new controller that is rated for my battery pack 120v 100AH HiPower.
- Or send it back to Kostov to wire it in series... more easy to find controllers.

I read somewhere that if F1 and F2 where disconnected it can send all the power to the motor, is it true? The F1 and F2 are connected but if it disconnected for an instace? Does the controller motorize it?

Thanks
 
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#2 ·
My Kelly HSE 14801 for SepEx (kostov 9'' 120v). Blown up from the inside... :( what could it be?....
<snip>
I see people complaining about his controllers. Or it was my fault?.....
Too bad pedm :(

That does seem to happen with his controllers too often. I would not consider it your fault from what you've said and from the appearance of your conversion. I would not attempt a repair to the controller. Send it back to Kelly and insist they make it right.

Also, F1 and F2 need be powered on the motor for it to function. Do not attempt to run the motor without proper power to the field (F1, F2).

Good luck,

major
 
#6 · (Edited)
It happens when the capacitors are not fully charged?

I connected the positive terminal of DC/DC converter to the controller terminal... :( that could cause this to happens.

I had the DC/DC + connection to the red arrow (at the fuse) and before making that test I changed to the green arrow(controller terminal):



Maybe this change was fatal to the controller.

When it was at the fuse the 12v Battery was always charging, to avoid that I changed to near the contactor to be sure that it just start to charge after turning the key on. Maybe I made a big mistake. So It was charging the battery instead of the capacitors?
 
#30 ·
From the looks of the picture, that looks like an AC fuse... Probably not adequately rated to your DC pack, created an arc, and that's why your controller blew and not the fuse.
Also that contactor looks suspiciously like a 96V contactor i have previously used... what is you battery pack voltage? That may not be adequate either.

Is this entire assembly from Kelly? And it just comes exposed like that?
 
#17 · (Edited)
IMMIC your DC-DC is always getting 6 mA, so if that's not enough to run itself and charge the AUX Batt it would prevent the controller from precharging at all, and would likely demand it's own current surge when the contactor closes, in addition to the surge in the controller. That may be what flipped the breaker. The controller would have been hit by the full inrush when you turned the key, and again the second time. I don't think doing that a few times should have been enough to let the magic smoke out, but I don't know that controller.
 
#22 ·
I don't see why the resistor would have failed. It should be passing 6 mA continuous, not enough to damage it and likely not enough to feed the DC-DC and the controller caps.
You're right, kinda. 60mA for 120V/2K, right? But within the 20W rating. So, then there would have been some charge on the controller caps depending on the current the converter was drawing.

pedm should not have wired the converter where he did. But I don't see that as the certain cause for the controller failure.
 
#26 ·
Finally kelly replyed to my e-mail :) :
please don't connect the DC/DC positive on the B+ terminal.
It should be connected to the terminal of power fuse holder.
I measured the precharge resistor, and it is still alive:


They want me to send it back to their factory to double check it, so that we can find out what was the problem. :)

Before the Fuse I have a circuit breaker.

I usually turned the circuit breaker on before the power switch. And the Power switch off before the circuit breaker off.

You guys are helping me a lot on solving this problem. Thank you!
 
#27 ·
I received the new controller.

First the car did not reaches 50A ( rated at 300 A constant and 800 peak).

And today I felt a lot of "hiccups" 39A max.

I still can´t move the car to the garage because it is not able to climb the hill. It just stops at the middle punching 39A.

I tested with a filed current of 8A, 15A but the armature current is always the same: 49 or 39A maximum.

I changed to 25% and 50% of motor and battery current. On 50% I started to feel stronger "hiccups".

I disabled the regen, all I want now is the car to work again... :(

Also the battery terminal bolts are getting small white dots... Seams like a chemical reaction.

The motor is a Kostov 9'' SepEX. Does the problem affected the motor?
 
#28 ·
Pedm: I have the 1000A version of your controller, powering an 11 inch Kostov Sepex. It was painful to watch the video and read about the problem!

  • My Kelly will pump current through the field 100% of the time, even when the motor is stopped, foot off the accelerator, or foot on the brake. You should be sure the field current is either low enough to not overheat the fields, or better yet put an electric cooling fan on the motor so it is always getting cooling air.
  • It wasn't instrumented well, so I can't vouch for the actual number, but I have run my Kelly and motor at the 1000A setting -- the car was fast enough I believe it could be accurate. I have run the car full out for about 40 seconds, the controller was fine.
  • I had heard that Kellys run hot. Mine sits on a huge 11 inch x 17 inch (28 x 43 cm) heat sink, with a huge fan blowing on it. It has always been cool to the touch, I can't detect that the controller heats up at all, so I haven't been using the fan.
  • 39 Amps is barely enough to turn the motor in neutral, no surprise you can't get it to drive.
  • There is a small chance you cooked something in your motor, particularly if it doesn't have extra cooling -- have you spun up the motor with a 12V battery? Be sure to do both the field and the armature, connect the field first and disconnect it last.
  • Get a clamp on current meter and check the field actually has current -- my Kelly always powers the field so you should be able to see this even if the motor isn't turning.
  • Why not go to 100% current? You could use your clamp on ammeter to make sure the current stays at a low enough level.
  • 39A sounds more like a field current maximum -- just to be sure is that number battery or armature Amps?
  • I'd suggest disabling regen until you get the forward motion thing sorted out.
 
#42 ·
Thanks a lot David. The car climbed the hill today into the garage!
It was just on first gear like a ICE car. But I made as you said before - use 100% on max motor current and battery current. I was afraid that the controller could explode again because of this, but it was really the precharge problem. Kelly reinforced the interior capacitors, and they might have changed other values like the Throttle up/down rate. That's is why it takes too much time to go to 120 Amps. This value doesn't seams to work. But at least the system looks more stable now.

I used the regen once a time, it was able to regen -10A for less than a second and then turned off and never worked again (using the old controller that have blown) . On the new controller I haven't tried it yet.

it is the Kostov9'' 120v.

Coulomb said:
If you try to spin it in neutral, it could suddenly spin so fast that the armature flies apart.
Really, is 7A too low for this motor? I can see in the graphic that it should be up to 10A. Maybe it should be configured at 28% of current field.

Coulomb said:
A strong possibility is that the field connections became corroded over the months in the sun and rain. It may be internal to the motor, or you may be lucky and it's something that is easy to get at.
Thanks for the precious advice! I found rust on the field terminal cables. Replaced those with new ones.

Also some battery terminals on the rear pack have rust (it seams like rust):

Maybe I should replace them too.
 
#52 · (Edited)
The controller don't even gets hot.

Now I am having another problem with the controller.
Kelly have a great support and they are trying to find the solution.

But maybe someone have experienced the same problem, so I won't have to sent it back to them again.

The controller is giving an Internal Reset after pressing the throttle and also after getting the green light. The motor don't even spins.

I tested the motor with a 12v battery, and it works.

I tested the PB-6 and got a the precise readings: 1.61 to 4.23 kohms with no OL between, always constant...

The batteries are discharging for DC/DC and the current field.

But after pressing the throttle it repeats: No response to the armature.

Sometimes pressing the throttle will maintain the green light on and not even the Internal Reset error it reports.

I changed all the bolts to the Stainless Steel ones. All are well connected.

I get a 132V reading. Batteries are discharging -4 Amps to the DC/DC. Controller is emitting -15Amps to the field.

It worked before... :(

"Internal Reset: Reset caused by overcurrent, high battery voltage or low supply voltage . It is normal if occurs occasionally."
What could it be?

I should have ordered series wound motor or a AC one. I can see that sepex is not really the best way to go... :(

Thanks,
Pedro
 
#53 · (Edited)
What are the settings on the new controller at the moment? What is your supply voltage? if you are using a standard 12 lead acid battery then you may be having the voltage drop enough to kick things out of whack. I have seen it way too often. You think your battery is good but it is not holding a high enough charge. I am currently using a 4 cell Lithium pack for my Aux battery. My normal working lead acid aux battery is not allowing enough to even run the damn controller. When it is all put together I will be ONLY using a DC DC converter for my Aux power.

Pete :)
 
#54 ·
Hi Pete,

Thanks a lot for your reply. Yes the lead acid battery dropped once before.
Maybe something shorted inside the controller because of the 12v.

Using an external 12v supply the controller gives the same error.

I am going to ask if kelly can replace it again.

What type of 12v Aux batteries should be used on a EV conversion?
 
#56 ·
It gives the same error, but because of:

Something shorted inside the controller maybe because of the low aux 12v battery. It could have disconnected immediately after I turned it on.

When I turn the car key on , the vacuum pump, and the controller connects at the same time. And some times the pump is discharging 50A, and the 12v aux battery as 55Ah. The DC/DC converter sends the amount of current to compensate the diference for the rest of the parts, but not the necessary for the system. So I can see the Touch Screen tuning off (because of low power) and turning back on.

Could this be the reason?
 
#58 ·
What is the output voltage of your DC DC converter? What is the output wattage of your DC DC converter? Aux battery seems small. I am currently using 4 100ah LiFePO4 in series for my Aux battery. It provides plenty when needed for the Aux system. If your pump is pushing 50A when turned on that will sag your little Aux and maybe even tax your DC DC enough to cause issues.
 
#60 ·
Hi,

After a long long time, I finally have the new controller with me. But this time I am afraid to connect it again without replacing the aux battery for a new one. I was thinking about buying a 130Ah gel battery. Because it is cheaper but I am afraid it can go bellow 12v again. Or go for an expensive 12v Litium battery. This battery will be always charged by the DC-DC (13.5v). So it is important to have a BMS system for the 12v aux battery also avoiding it to be overcharged.

After a long period of time I can feel a strange smell on my battery pack. Smells like silicon. HP may have fabricated the white boxes with plastic and white silicone.

The aux battery I was using was a 55Ah AGM. This may have caused the controller blow up. When pressing the break pedal the vacuum pump takes about 40A. Not enough for the rest - controller, lights, BMS ...

When the battery turned bellow the 9v the controller may have turned OFF and back ON at a milisec. So pre-charge did not occurred at this time because kelly HSE assembly as a direct connection from 12v to the contactor. If you have the 12v power on the contactor it closes and opens if the voltage drops.

So I have to change the HSE assembply to avoid the contactor to close and open before pre-charge on a voltage drop before powering the controller.
OR
Look for a 150 Ah rated aux battery and be sure that the voltage don't drop bellow 12v.

Maybe the second thought is more easy to do.
 
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