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Anyone using Tritium Wavesculpture inverters

22K views 42 replies 7 participants last post by  steven4601 
#1 ·
Hi All,

I am thinking of using one of these in my EV conversion, so just thought I would post if someone had purchased one of these beasts from Oz land ..

They are a bit on the expensive side, but are real easy to set up on any AC motor.

I intend using it with an EVE AC30 motor ..

Cheers,
Bernard.
 
#6 ·
So was it the CALIB cells that were sagging in voltage at the 300A?
I don't remember if they were clapped out Thunder Skys or Lead Acid; they were hidden away inside a wooden box. It was not our SE/CALB cells.

What did the motor cost?
Although it was from an ABB catalogue, it seems to be a special order. It took many months to get a proper quote, then to get the thing made and shipped, and then it arrived with the wrong flange. It ended up costing us around AU$2600, a lot more than the ~ AU$1000 that more "standard" motors were going for. I think they charge a premium for the hassle of packing all that copper into such a small space. If we had the space, we'd probably have gone for a larger frame motor, but there was no way a 160 frame motor would fit into an MX-5 (Miata).
 
#9 ·
I've corrected our contact David Gayner's details above. I'll repeat them here, in this new post:

David Gayner : : Automation and Drives Sales
Control Logic Pty Ltd

T: 07 3623 1212 D: 07 3623 1231
F: 07 3623 1211 M: 0409 626 817
www.control-logic.com.au

He's based in Brisbane. Woody (from Sydney) has also ordered his motor through David. I'm not sure if another company has to be involved; our motor was ordered through Electronic Innovations; Weber used to work there and is still in contact with the staff. It's possible that you need a company (with an Australian Business Number or equivalent) to order; something to ask.

In earlier posts, I was confusing Control Logic and Control Techniques; I hope I've corrected everything now.
 
#10 ·
Thanks again.

One last question for now: How are you mounting the motor, normally in an EV application you mount an adapter plate to the end of the motor, so is the motor available in that sort of mount configuration. (Most industrial motors come with a mounting foot..)

Sorry for all these questions, but I can't seem to find the motor catalogue on any of the ABB web sites ..
 
#11 ·
I can't seem to find the motor catalogue on any of the ABB web sites ..
Use this page:

http://www.abb.com/product/seitp322/3b3fd5bde2d32853c1256dac0041b047.aspx

You can find a motor like ours by searching for something like "131 008" or "132 007" (with the quotes).

Both of the above (currently) bring up this PDF: Low voltage Industrial performance motors. (In power AC terms, 400 V is low voltage. High voltage is 11,000+ volts. I've been wanting to put a sticker on an EV that says "Danger! Low Voltage!" :)
 
#15 ·
Thanks Coulomb,

I just got a quote from ABB here in New Zealand for the motor at $3100NZ which is pretty good, I think I am only up for some local freight from the shipping depo.

So I think I will follow your lead on this one and order the motor, I will also order the Wavesculpture200 when the exchange rate improves between AU and NZ.

By the way, what are you doing regarding getting a temperature sensor on the motor, I did not see any options to do that as an order option, so it looks like going to have to embed on somewhere on the case.

Please keep this thread up to date on your progress. By the way, have you made an entry into www.evalbum.com yet?
 
#16 · (Edited)
I just got a quote from ABB here in New Zealand for the motor at $3100NZ which is pretty good, I think I am only up for some local freight from the shipping depo.
Yes, that sounds quite reasonable.

By the way, what are you doing regarding getting a temperature sensor on the motor, I did not see any options to do that as an order option, so it looks like going to have to embed on somewhere on the case.
Oh, there will be an option to give a lot of money to ABB to put in up to 3 temperature sensors, but it came to about AU$650 from memory. We just siliconed in a PT100 (I think) thermistor right on one of the windings, and brought the leads out to a ceramic terminal strip in the cable box.

Wavesculptor user manual said:
Motor Temperature Sensor – 100k 25°C NTC thermistor
BethTherm 10KD6A372I
Farnell 970-7298
We had the wrong one; TJ tossed ours out and put in the correct one that the Wavesculptor is expecting, when testing our motor. The above is an NTC thermistor (good for measuring approximate temperature); I previously posted a PTC (good only for go/nogo).

So this one should be suitable.

By the way, have you made an entry into www.evalbum.com yet?
Yes; here: 1990 Mazda MX-5 AC

It could possibly do with another update or two.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for that. Just after I posted that question I did find the pdf comparison, but as you say it is quite old ... havn't found a recent comparison though.

I know Sky Energy cells have a better power/weight ratio and if they still have a flatter discharge curve and lower temperature, I will go with them.

I also understand (from talking with others) that they under-rate their cells i.e 180A/h typically put out 200A/h .... so that's got to be good.

I understand your frustration in choosing the right cell size, I am going through that exercise at the moment.

My thought was to run the motor initially at a lower voltage (say 288v) using higher capacity 60 or 90A/h cells, then when the price of LiIon came down (or polymer) in the next 5 years, add to the pack to get a higher voltage. I know I will get less rpm out of the motor(at the moment), but that's just gearing right? But I don't know how much my power/efficiency will drop because I now have incorrect winding wire size compared with applied voltage.... have you done any experiments at a lower voltage than rated.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Regarding pack voltage, my dilemma is as follows:

I want to have a storage of 25Kw/hr ideally.

Option 1: If I chose 60A/h cells 120 of them will give me ~23Kw/hr and my rail voltage will be 384v nominal (peak 432v)

Option 2: If I use 90A/h cells, 90 cells will give me 25Kw/hr of storage but the nominal voltage will be 288v (324 peak).

Option 3: Using 100A/h CALB cells, have to reduce to 80 cells (25kw/hr), which means my rail is only 256V.

Using the wavesculpture controller, I can't get any more storage in option1 as the controller is only rated to 450v.

Option 2/3 is the best I can do on my budget, if I had unlimited budget I would get 120 100A/h cells for 38Kw/hr of storage and 380v nominal rail voltage .. ideal.

So I am thinking option B is my only storage option at present, anyone have some views on this?
 
#41 ·
Thanks for the update. I hope SeanECE will update us further ..

In the meantime, I am looking at the open source project Tumanako here: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/tumanako/index.php?title=Main_Page

Gives me a cheaper controller (pullet proof power stage with the Semikron unit) and gives me full control over the Motor control software, including the contactor code .. the only issue is that they don't have the space-vector stuff finished just yet, although you can run the motor in normal sine mode for testing.
 
#43 ·
Hi Sean,

James always has got back to my questions really promptly. So far just about everything I asked was answered, even with all extra technical details. Best E.V. company & component I bought t.b.h.

Reason I made this reply is that initally I thought there was something wrong with my settings in the Inverter, but after some careful testing of various parameter settings, I suspect it is the motor not outputting what I had expected .....
 
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