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EVNetics Soliton1 - customer support thread

146K views 494 replies 75 participants last post by  dkubus 
#1 ·
Hi,

Not sure if this is the best place to ask but I know Tesseract and Qer frequent these forums and my question is for them.

I am a fair ways off installing my Soliton1 into my car, but I was wondering if it is OK to hook up a 12V car battery to the Soliton1 so that I can connect to it with the web page console. No motor or pot box would be connected.

The reason I want to do this is to take a look at the configuration stuff and get an idea of what it might take to integrate it with my in car computer/dash that I am planning.

The sort of thing I am thinking about is having a sport/economy setting for example on my dash and to be able to switch between those modes by making the necessary calls to change the controller settings (on the fly even?).

Cheers,
Pete.
 
#215 ·
mine is not ready yet.
if you have an android, "evspeedo" is on the market . it looks cool and has loads of options.
you will need a wireless router
mine is just going to deal with the basic facts. I need to create logging in the format that Evnetics prefers, which is important from a support standpoint. But I am digging it so far. Time for more testing it's 64 degrees here and time for the top to come off !
 
#217 ·
Block C parameters
I'm trying to understand parameters in block C better.
I drove my car for 15 miles this weekend which was probably 2 more miles than I should of, But maybe there was a little more juice left.
While under load when I got to 138 volts I went into pulse mode.
It's extremely interesting to watch on my "ecar" android application when doing this. The mode information bar on the bottom of my application starts flashing between green and red.
Anyway my understanding is that the minimum battery voltage under no current, which I have set to 138v, means when I let my foot of the throttle as long as I am above 138v I will not get hit with a limit.
My minimum voltage under load/current is set to 115.
I started to get limited at 138v while under load.
Battery current set to 450
Motor current set to 490
it must be a combination of these settings that got me to limiting @ 138v while under load.
It's interesting to see others have trouble with the rpm connections. I'm having difficulty myself I'm gonna take some of these new tips and try them.
When I set mine up it is extremely squirrelly at zero rpm but when running it is fine.

This limiting was while using version 1.4, I have upgraded to 1.5.1 now.
I need to verify b & M current settings I thought they were set lower.

I'm taking the Supra to the track in a few weeks so I'm thinking race mode settings and street mode settings would be nice.
I'm gonna break something , hopefully a record.
http://www.ecedra.com/2012evdragracingevent.html
 
#218 ·
...
Anyway my understanding is that the minimum battery voltage under no current, which I have set to 138v, means when I let my foot of the throttle as long as I am above 138v I will not get hit with a limit.
This is a difficult concept to grasp and even more difficult one to explain. I gave it my best shot in the manual so I don't know if I will be able to clarify it more here. Rather than repeat what is in the manual, I'll try a different approach.

The two minimum pack voltage settings are intended to work together. If you set them to the same voltage then they will work exactly as the single minimum battery voltage setting functioned in versions prior to 1.4. That is to say, the controller will limit throttle to whatever value is necessary to maintain the pack voltage at the minimum specified. As the SoC of the pack declines the controller restricts battery current to a lower value.

However, a single minimum pack voltage setting can't differentiate between a decline in pack voltage from pulling 1000A and the pack simply being dead, so we came up with the idea of pairing the minimum allowed battery voltage with the maximum allowed battery current.

Now you can tell the controller that the pack voltage can sag down to, say, 100V at 500A (refer to the graph on p21 of the manual), but what is an acceptable voltage for the pack to sag down to at 400A? Or 100A? This is why you need to give the controller a second, higher, voltage which the pack must maintain at 0 current. The controller then interpolates the voltage vs. current between those two points. In the example graphed on p21 of the manual, the 0 current voltage is 150V (suggesting the fully charged voltage for this pack is around 192V) and the maximum current voltage is 100V. Thus, current will be limited to 250A if the pack declines to 125V, or 100A at 140V, etc.

When the pack is fully charged you might not even drop down to 100V when pulling 500A from it, so no additional limiting will be applied. This function really starts to shine as SoC declines, especially with LFP cells, as they will otherwise abruptly die (particularly if bottom balanced) when 0% SoC is reached - this function, properly employed, will let you know well ahead of time that you are running out of juice.

Note that for liability reasons I can't tell you precisely what to set your limits to. You have to decide how much current you want to pull from your pack, what you are willing to let it sag down to (NB - there is no advantage to going lower than half the nominal voltage, though), how much current from the pack or through the motor you want to tolerate, etc...

Hope that helps make this function a little clearer than mud.
 
#219 ·
I work with a couple of EE's, 1 of them I was just talking to understands what you are explaining. I just need some information about the battery's before I figure out the right number to set. You did clear some of it up for me and I do understand what is going on a bit more now, thanks.
I know a lot of guys on here really love details but I absolutely hate details.
For now it's trial and error and luckily I'm driving the car everyday to work so I get to try things out four times a day.
The outside temp is getting closer to doing a real test of the green/yellow/red scale on my android app. I've been up to 50 C recently but not 55 which would be the cut off of the (it's cool) green range and put the reading into yellow(not so cool).
 
#221 ·
I've been using my EV as my daily driver now for the last 3 days and doing a bit of fine tuning. I'm very happy with the Solition Jr.: it's got plenty of power, it's very easy to make adjustments, the throttle is smooth and responsive, and it looks great under the hood.

The one thing that I wasn't expecting though was a high pitched noise under throttle. It's not very loud but it's at a frequency that's kind of annoying. I've switched the controller from performance mode to quiet mode and the sound is definatley improved but it's still there.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Is it maybe because the motor is solid mounted to the chassis?

Any suggestion to reduce this noise?
 
#228 ·
The one thing that I wasn't expecting though was a high pitched noise under throttle. It's not very loud but it's at a frequency that's kind of annoying. I've switched the controller from performance mode to quiet mode and the sound is definatley improved but it's still there.

Anyone else experiencing this?
Same thing for me. My Soliton 1 cause an intensive sound coming from the motor at 8 Khz, so I switch to quiet mode with some improving.

Well, in my case, the motor is at 4 feets from my ears...:rolleyes:
It's probably the main problem cause!
 
#243 ·
The one thing that I wasn't expecting though was a high pitched noise under throttle. It's not very loud but it's at a frequency that's kind of annoying. I've switched the controller from performance mode to quiet mode and the sound is definatley improved but it's still there.

Anyone else experiencing this?
Another vote for high pitch sound, even in quiet mode.

Don't mind too much, sounds like the car is turbo-compressed :eek::D
 
#223 · (Edited)
it all depends on how good your hearing is. I imagine kids who have not had damage to their hearing can hear the controller quite easily, and those who have experienced some hearing loss cannot hear it at all. 8,000hz should be audible to most, and 14,000hz to those with good hearing.

Mounting of the motor and controller could have an effect on how the sound is "broadcast" from the components. Isolating the mechanical mounting points with rubber or plastic should help reduce the transmission of the sound to the frame and body.

directly from the manual...page 6 (highlighting by me)
Illustration 1 is an example of a typical over-the-top conversion by the conversion shop Rebirth Auto. The Soliton1 is bolted to the twin motor adapter with rubber vibration dampeners and...
 
#226 ·
it all depends on how good your hearing is. I imagine kids who have not had damage to their hearing can hear the controller quite easily, and those who have experienced some hearing loss cannot hear it at all. 8,000hz should be audible to most, and 14,000hz to those with good hearing.

Mounting of the motor and controller could have an effect on how the sound is "broadcast" from the components. Isolating the mechanical mounting points with rubber or plastic should help reduce the transmission of the sound to the frame and body.

directly from the manual...page 6 (highlighting by me)
Isolating the controller is easy enough to do but it was my understanding that, while this type of noise is caused by the controller PWM operation, it's actually the motor that's the source of the noise. I could be wrong about that though.

It sounds like other folks can hear this sound but it's not particularly loud and easy to ignore which brings me back to thinking that it's the motor mounting that's transmitting the noise into the cab that's the problem.
 
#225 ·
It was my understanding(might be in the manual too) that even in quiet mode that the controller will go into a lower frequency at a certain amperage and that it will leave 14khz if the temperature reaches a certain level to reduce controller heating to prevent performance loss by staying in quiet mode when you'd rather have performance.

If the first is true then normal relaxed driving would probably keep it quiet all the time and spirited driving might trigger the lower, more audible frequency.

palmer_md's ideas seem sound. With my conversion I'll use fabricated mounts that interface with the stock rubber mounts.
 
#232 ·
Hi Tesseract,

I'm gonna use the Soliton 1 in combination with the Kostov 11" alpha and want to use the RPM sensor bearing.
It produces 80 pulses per revolution. I know, that the Soliton can't work with that. So I will build a translation unit with a microcontroller.
What does the Soliton expect on it's RPM input?

Or are there any other ways to read the RPM?

Thanks
Marco
 
#233 ·
...
It produces 80 pulses per revolution. I know, that the Soliton can't work with that. So I will build a translation unit with a microcontroller.
What does the Soliton expect on it's RPM input?

Or are there any other ways to read the RPM?...
Please refer to the Soliton manual for specifics about the RPM signal. The TACH input has a nominal input impedance of 10k and can accept pulses with a wide duty cycle range as long as logic "high" is at least 5V.

As for converting the 80ppt signal from the sensor bearing, yes, you can use a uC to divide it down, but I'd probably go use some CMOS logic instead. For example, use a CD4017B to divide the frequency by 10, then use each half of a CD4013B D flip-flop to divide it by 2 two more times. Now you've got a 2ppt signal with 50% duty - it can't get much better than that for the Soliton.

The reason I suggest using CD4xxx logic is because it runs on up to 18V and its switching thresholds are proportional to the supply voltage, so all you will need to do to power it is run a line from the S12V terminal of the controller to the Vdd pin of the logic chips, with a bypass capacitor to filter out noise and decouple spikes from switching. The output (Q or !Q) of the last flip-flop can directly drive the TACH input of the controller.
 
#234 ·
Hello,

this thread is very interesting. If I got it right, the battery voltage pack has to be the same value as the motor. If the battery voltage would be less, than the motor would get this lower voltage minus the losses over the controller. So in the controller is no DC DC converter to get the desired voltage of the motor, is this correct?

I want to use the Kostov Alpha 11 motor with the Solution 1 or Junior controller. In my opinion the Junior satisfies because of its continous output of 500A and at max. 650A (the batteries have to perform such a high current, this has to be checked).
 

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#235 ·
Hello,

this thread is very interesting. If I got it right, the battery voltage pack has to be the same value as the motor. If the battery voltage would be less, than the motor would get this lower voltage minus the losses over the controller. So in the controller is no DC DC converter to get the desired voltage of the motor, is this correct?
Only half. The controller can drop the voltage to the motor(and emit more motor amps than it's drawing in battery amps at a higher voltage), but it can't raise the voltage.

Basically Motor Voltage <= Battery voltage.

I want to use the Kostov Alpha 11 motor with the Solution 1 or Junior controller. In my opinion the Junior satisfies because of its continous output of 500A and at max. 650A (the batteries have to perform such a high current, this has to be checked).
The max is 600A for the Jr.

Using the soliton 1 gives you 40% more peak torque, and more continuous too.

Do mind the discharge rates, generally they will manifest as sag anyway.
 
#236 ·
The Jr. is rated at 340v and 600A. Even if the batts sag to 300v that is still 180kw.

That's more than plenty and is equivalent to a 1000A controller at 180v which would have been a "hot" setup little more than a year ago.

Armchair builders are going a bit nuts acting as if a conversion needs 300kw or it is junk. 60kw is plenty for a small car to feel "sporty".

Just keep in mind that the Soliton Jr. will put 40% less stress on your brushes and comm (not to mention the batteries). I would wager hard cash that the number of motor/brush failures will be far less for those using the Jr. vs the 1.

Less amps can actually be a GOOD thing. I personally limit the Zilla down to 600amps most of the time to avoid undue brush arcing.
 
#237 ·
Just keep in mind that the Soliton Jr. will put 40% less stress on your brushes and comm (not to mention the batteries). I would wager hard cash that the number of motor/brush failures will be far less for those using the Jr. vs the 1.
Myep. I've lost count of how many motors the Soliton 1 has blown up (I had a reasonable correct count up to about 7) but I haven't heard of any blown up by a Jr. Remember that the losses in the motor is I²R so if current goes up from 600 to 1000 the losses in the motor increases with a factor of 2.8.

If you know what you're doing you'll probably be fine but just pairing up a cheap, random motor with a Soliton 1 with all settings on max is asking for expensive mileage cost. Of course, you COULD set the Soliton 1 on stu... a lower current too...
 
#250 ·
I water cooled my 1 from the beginning. In fact today I drove it more than 100 yards for the first time. After a bit I heard a noise like a vacuum pump that wouldn't stop so I pulled over to investigate. As I was about to get out it dawned on me it was the coolant pump. It comes on at either 30C or 40C I think. Didn't really pay attention to the temps.
 
#252 ·
After a bit I heard a noise like a vacuum pump that wouldn't stop so I pulled over to investigate. As I was about to get out it dawned on me it was the coolant pump. It comes on at either 30C or 40C I think.
Oh, always nice to read about people using those features I've added. :D

The pump output works as the built in fans; it turns on at 40C and off at 35C. That's the same for all models including the Shiva (which doesn't have fans though).
 
#251 ·
FWIW my junior never goes above 50C for more than a couple of seconds. even at 60MPH for a mile or so it happily sits at 45C on air cooling.

I planned on only installing liquid cooling if i needed it... and I dont.
 
#255 ·
Makes sense. That hammer didn't hurt too bad. ;)

A few 'rebuttles' just for the sake of argument, however:

Whether you officially 'advertise' it as air-cooled or not, you know that is one of the features people buy your products for. (vs the NetGain controller, for instance) A simply statement such as "we highly recommend liquid cooling...because air-only only works in very specific situations and even then will cut orders of magnitude off the lifespan of the conroller" would be more forthcoming than simply saying "we highly recommend liquid cooling".
The reason I say that is lots of manufacturers "highly recommend" stuff that isn't really needed. Anti-static straps for computer motherboards, never removing the "don't put this in water" tag from your hair dryer, using only OEM parts, putting the anti-fall straps on bookshelves, etc, etc... So it's come to the point that without a "because..." a lot of those recommendations get taken with a grain of salt.

(this is not to say you've been duplicitous at all -- you guys are the most open manufacturers of any product I've ever seen... I'm simply explaining where I'm coming from)

FWIW - I never meant to imply that air cooling should or would be as effective as liquid. Anyone with half a brain would know that - but CPU's can run on air just fine and it doesn't hurt their lifespan, even though liquid is technically better. (I know the scale of the heat removal is different, but hopefully you get the point I was coming from)

Anyway, thanks for the explanations and the top notch products...
 
#256 ·
...
The reason I say that is lots of manufacturers "highly recommend" stuff that isn't really needed. Anti-static straps for computer motherboards...
Okay, that's a valid point and one I hadn't really considered. I'll add a bit more explanation about air vs. liquid cooling in the next revision of the manual, then.

FWIW - I never meant to imply that air cooling should or would be as effective as liquid. Anyone with half a brain would know that...
I wasn't so much saying that you didn't know that liquid cooling is more effective than air-cooling, more that you didn't seem to have a good idea of how much product life is reduced by higher temperature. More specifically, you seemed to think that letting your controller run at 85C most of the time only robbed you of some of its maximum current rating, and not of its ultimate lifespan, too.

...but CPU's can run on air just fine and it doesn't hurt their lifespan...
Sure CPUs can be air-cooled just fine, but that doesn't mean their lifespan hasn't been reduced, it's just that the lifespan of the CPU at 25C is so long to start with (probably exceeding 1M hours) that even at 65C (which is my guess for the typical average core temperature) it will last far longer than you will need it to.
 
#257 ·
Issue with Cycle Analyst and Soliton noise

I had a Curtis 1231C controller and a Cycle Analyst for counting Ah, pack cycles, wh/mile etc. I have about 3000 miles on the Curtis. Since upgrading to the Soliton1 however, I noticed the CA would index backwards once every 30 seconds or so. Normally to index to the next screen you have to push a button but regardless, it never indexes in reverse!

Assuming it was caused by noise, I built a 12.5uh choke and installed it in line with the positive lead to the CA. This helped quite a bit limiting the indexing to once every few minutes or so. The CA however has three leads so there's three ways for noise to enter so I figured I had to install another one to completely stop it. I installed it on the - side of the pack and that solved the problem.

I did notice though that the minute resistance of the coil interfered with the amp reading of the CA so I did a ZERO on it with no current flowing through the shunt. This procedure is in the manual but you have to go into SETUP and then to the Advanced menu to do it.
 
#258 ·
Re: Issue with Cycle Analyst and Soliton noise

...I noticed the CA would index backwards once every 30 seconds or so.
...
Assuming it was caused by noise, I built a 12.5uh choke and installed it in line with the positive lead to the CA....
Making an inductor by coiling up wire is a great way to create an "EMI cannon", often doing more harm than good. A much more effective means of reducing electrical noise is to run the positive and negative battery cables next to each other all the way from the traction pack to the controller. Putting a snap-on ferrite over all three of the signal wires to the Cycle Analyst will help tremendously, too.

However clever a gadget the Cycle Analyst may be, it is important to keep in mind that it is not really designed for use in on-road EVs. Much the same can be said for the TBS Xpert Pro Ah gauge; they are notoriously twitchy once the pack voltage exceeds 140V or so, and downright unusable at 200V+.
 
#260 ·
Yes I left the "signal" wire from the shunt but did both power wires.

Tes the cables are run, actually twisted from the pack to within 3' of the pack to an Andersen disconnect. I thought about lengthening the cable from the disconnect to my contactors so I could twist them as well, now about 4' long. The motor conductors however aren't ran together at all.

DIY I have a two conductor shielded cable from the shunt to the CA but I don't think I grounded the shield. Maybe I should do that but the two choke deal works perfectly now. If you have some 24 gauge wire, roll it around a 1.25" PVC conduit, about 18 turns in an inch and it calculates to 12.5uh choke. I held the ends in place with a tie wrap. Works beautifully. Here's the link I used to calculate the uh.
 
#261 ·
I bit of air vs water cooling data.
I recently installed water cooling, I run the pump 100% of the time, but I will be setting up the fans to only come on when the Soliton1 fans come on. (not hooked up yet).

I did a test run accelerating up a gentle hill all the way through 5th gear at full throttle with normal driving before that to bring the controller up to "normal temperature".

On air I peaked at 62C, with normal driving temps around 43C, (Ambient around 19-20C)

On coolant I peaked at 44C, with normal driving around 26-28C and dropped to 24C after coasting down a short hill (Ambient 22C) this is pump only fans on the radiator are not hooked up yet.

This was driving the same road with the same acceleration and similar ambient temperature. Controller temperature drops MUCH faster on water, but I guess that's the point. A minute and 40 seconds after the 44C peak the temp was back down to 31C.

I'll play with fluid flow and putting some air on the radiator to see how things change. Right now I'd call it a success!
 

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#264 ·
Mine isn't ideal, my controller is above the motor and I don't have the heat shield in place yet so motor heat can rise up into the controller. I can't say how much airflow there would be in the engine compartment.

On longer drives I've noticed the thermal limit and "felt" the lack of torque from the controller limiting current. It wasn't a very long or aggressive drive either in very mild ambient temperatures.

My jr was heating up quickly as well running on "air only". I installed a water reservoir + pump and it's a night and day difference.

Not sure if a rad is really required, still have to "experiment" on a hot day.
I think that just might be the key here, I don't have fans on my radiator yet but simply switching to water made a drastic difference. I might come down to a very simple and inexpensive system with a pump/reservoir could be enough to keep these cool.
 
#265 ·
OK, I know someone will show me, . . . but I have honestly looked and searched to no avail for the sealed Ethernet connector(s) (RJ45 is it?). I'm sure I've seen at least one version of this somewhere. My Shiva has a black cap that secures with an external thread. . .about a half turn I think. Can someone point me to info on this? I want to install a permanent, sealed connection. (yes, I have found various pics that look like the right thing. Just looking for the recommended spec/supplier etc. I didn't see anything on the Evnetics or Rebirth site either.

Thx
 
#267 ·
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