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And so it begins.....

67K views 166 replies 30 participants last post by  drgrieve 
#1 ·
Not much yet but I placed my order or rather "secured my place in line" for a zilla controller so I guess the project is started. I was just excited to actually do something more than just talk about this project. Sadly it isn't much but it is something.

In the sticky it recommends sharing:
  • Your skill level with auto mechanics and fabrication
I do all my own auto repairs. I have a welder and I can do basic welding. I'm good with automotive wiring but am not an electrical expert. I have done 2 Gas engine swaps into cars that the engine/trans was never designed to go (check out LS1BMW.blogspot.com). The mechanical part of this project, building battery trays coupling the motor to the trans etc, sound like fun. I may have to copy and rely on some others for the electrical component expert advice.
  • The range you are hoping to get (how many miles/charge)
I'm going for 20 to 25 miles per charge. My round trip to work is 18miles (slightly hilly). Anything past that is bonus.
  • What level of performance you are hoping to get
I want acceleration equal to or better than a typical gas engined car. 0-60 in 7 seconds kind of performance.
  • How much money you are willing to put into your project
That's hard to say. Most projects tend to go over budget. If I had to put a number on it....a wild guess I'd say $8,000. However I'll just spread the buying of parts out over a longer period of time if necessary.
  • What parts you've already considered, if any.
I'm going with the basic Zilla controller, with -A and -P option (on order). I'm thinking a WarP 9" motor. For batteries I'm thinking AGM style. Haven't selected what exact brand or size. Whatever it takes to get the desired performance, I guess. I'm a bit confused still on battery selection and predicting performance. I'll probably go 120-144 V. For a donor car I'm thinking of using a '92-'97 3 series 4 door BMW for the swap (alternate car will be nissan maxima). Keeping the manual transmission and clutch. I go with the Mr2 P/S pump. Vac pump and tank for brakes. undecided on the heater and A/C. No idea what to do for a battery charger or some of the other electrical components (contactors etc).

Anyway, I have been lurking around for a while now. I have contemplated doing an electric car for awhile now. I about started a couple years ago but decided to swap a V8 into a 3 series BMW instead. Now that I'm driving the V8 BMW I'm ready for a new project.

With gas prices high it makes it easier to justify building a EV but I by no means expect to save money by having one. I'm not out there to start a crusade to save the enviroment either. Basically I just don't want to stop at the gas station any more and an electric car sounds very interesting.

Comments and tips are appreciated.

Thaniel
 
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#2 ·
It seems you've got it covered, really. Good to have mechanical guys around, I believe that part will be the tricky one when I start. I'm more into short circuits than engine replacements even though I can MIG-veld if I have to. :D

Don't forget to document carefully! Please?
 
#3 ·
Keeping the manual transmission and clutch.
I seriously advise you to reconsider keeping the clutch, read as much as you can on the subject before you make final decision. I went clutchless on Miata and loving it. 2 things that helped my decision:

1. Weight of flywheel, especially the power it takes to spin it up from dead stop.

2. Additional complexity of motor coupler and room it takes under the hood. I actually cut off the pilot shaft from tranny as advised by EV America's coupler design, and saved 2 inches of spacers. If I kept flywheel, my motor would be 3-4 inches further away from tranny and I would not be able to put batteries in front of it.

Obviously your choice of donor will drive these decisions, but I just want to give friendly advise from someone who just finished the conversion and had to make same decisions you are making today.

Hope this helps.
 
#4 ·
Hey I appreciate the feedback. Do you find you shift the gears much or just leave it in one?

I had contemplated going direct drive with a high ratio diff. I really was excited to go that way as I could shove the motor under the trans tunnel and shorten/eliminate the driveshaft. I changed my mind after some comunication with the owner of the white zombie which is direct drive. His daily driver EV the blue meanie retains the clutch and trans.

Obviously the more info and opinions I can get the better. I agree the rotating mass is a big drawback. I'm considering perhaps a racing clutch or atleast a aluminum flywheel.

Shame I can't just go to the local EV dealer and try both options :D

I seriously advise you to reconsider keeping the clutch, read as much as you can on the subject before you make final decision. I went clutchless on Miata and loving it. 2 things that helped my decision:

1. Weight of flywheel, especially the power it takes to spin it up from dead stop.

2. Additional complexity of motor coupler and room it takes under the hood. I actually cut off the pilot shaft from tranny as advised by EV America's coupler design, and saved 2 inches of spacers. If I kept flywheel, my motor would be 3-4 inches further away from tranny and I would not be able to put batteries in front of it.

Obviously your choice of donor will drive these decisions, but I just want to give friendly advise from someone who just finished the conversion and had to make same decisions you are making today.

Hope this helps.
 
#7 ·

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#8 ·
Not much to show at the moment :D. Just have the longest lead time item on order.

Well after careful consideration I believe I made my decision on the clutch vs clutchless. Though I believe the clutchless would work it all came down to this.......My wife. She will be driving the car as well. Her daily driver is a manual and if she is switching back and forth between the electric and she gets used to shifting with no clutch and goes back to her manual trans ICE powered car... I think you know where I am going with this.
 
#10 ·
Her daily driver is a manual and if she is switching back and forth between the electric and she gets used to shifting with no clutch and goes back to her manual trans ICE powered car... I think you know where I am going with this.
Two words: Automatic transmission. :cool:
 
#11 ·
That project sounds exciting.

You had better start looking for that MR2 power steering pump now! They are getting hard to find, and there isn't a wrecking yard in North America that doesn't know what they are at this point, between the EV people and the drag racers. Some of them charge accordingly. None of the major auto parts stores can get rebuilds for them since they all sold without cores, and now they are on a repair basis only.
 
#14 ·
Well a little new news on the EV front. My powersteering pump arrived. Here's a picture for those that need a visual fix.




The other big news is I ordered my motor today. Went with the WarP 9" as previously outlined. Been shoping for cars too. I really don't need the car until I get all the parts collected but if the perfect one was to pop up....

I've been looking at batteries. I'm thinking I need about 1,000 amp hrs worth. Does that sound about right? I've tried the ev calculators but I don't feel confident I the answers I've gotten.
 

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#15 ·
I got notification that the motor will ship sometime in early October. Glad I'm not in a hurry because the controller will take even longer.

Sadly I haven't even heard as much as boo from Cafe electric on a projected date. From what I gather from everyone else I should be expecting just in time for christmas :D
 
#16 · (Edited)
Been awhile so time for an update. While waiting for the long lead time EV parts (controller and motor) I have been shoping for a donor car. Just about bought one last weekend. After realizing the only thing I needed it for was to remove the engine and make the motor adapter I choose to just buy a transmision instead. This way I don't have another whole car hanging about the place for months while I just wait for parts. Of course if the right donor car pops up I'll grab it but until then I have something to work with.

So with that in mind I started working on a adapter to adapt the WarP 9 motor to the BMW flywheel. First thing I found was the JPG drawing of the warp 9 is pretty much illegible from the netgain site. Oh well I could make out what I needed.

I'm plaining to make the adapter out of a sprocket with the ID bore and Keyway dimensions required to fit the motor. Will save on some machining. I sketched it up on paper but would rather have a cad drawing. I downloaded a free copy of Alibre Design. Seems to work pretty nice. So I downloaded the DXF of the warp 9 motor and found that the JPG version and is outdated. Hummm.... I converted the DXF to PDF and JPG much more legible than is what on the Netgain site. I tried to post but the files are just a bit to large.

I still need 2 dimensions to make my adapter correct. I need the ICE crankshaft to measure or get someone to measure for me. So I'm still working on that. Other than that I think I have the adatper design. After drawing it I decided to draw a rough model of the motor and the snapring and keyway I'll be using. A little more work on the adapter and I'll have to move to the adapter plate. I don't plan on making it in CAD unless I can get a model from someone but who knows.

Pic of the trans


Screen shot of my 3D model of the adapter (green) on a mock up of the motor (grey) also notice the snapring and pilot bearing. It looks a little grainy after compression


Dimensional drawing




Thaniel
 

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#54 ·
So with that in mind I started working on a adapter to adapt the WarP 9 motor to the BMW flywheel. ...
...I'm plaining to make the adapter out of a sprocket with the ID bore and Keyway dimensions required to fit the motor. Will save on some machining.
Thaniel
Are you using the stock flywheel? When we were looking at mine, we wondered if it would be helpful to replace the stock with something machined. I'm keeping the clutch, so I'll need something there, but it'd be nice to do without the extra rotational mass.

Bad idea? Good idea? not worth the hassle?

Thanks!
 
#17 ·
Too bad you don't live in the SoCal area. I've got a donor car for you... A '94 325i. The ICE has got problems and the transmission as well. Both of those items do you no good in this car (the trans is automatic)

Kevin

PS. If any one else in the SoCal area is looking for a donor BMW 325i, let me know.
 
#19 ·
Ben,

I'm not a gearhead kind of guy, so parting it out isn't an option. Its the whole car and nothing but. I've got about a week or so (before the wife gets tired of it sitting in the driveway) and then its off to some local charity or I might try craigslist for a week or so.

Kevin
 
#21 ·
Sorry to hijack your thread, Thaniel.

If you (and the car) were closer I'd be all over it!!!!!! Surely you could ship it across country for $300 :D



Ben
Not a problem. Yah being on the other side of the country does make things more difficult.

Hey klsmith007, if you want to sell it try www.bimmerforums.com Lots of guys looking for bimmers for projects. You might find someone local. Also a good place to buy parts.
 
#23 ·
Monday the Warp 9 motor arrived. Today my aluminum flywheel arrived. Parts are starting to roll in :D

Here is the motor as delivered infront of my V-8 powered :eek: 3 series.



Here is how it was packaged. Looked pretty safe and un harmed. Some initial inspection shows that someone at the factory ran a razer knife or something similar down the larger drive shaft like they were cutting a tag off it or something. Left a pretty good scratch but It can be buffed out.


No pic of the flywheel yet. Oh other news I did some reading in the archives of this forum and decided that a taper-lock hub is probably the way to go. So I have to redesign my flywheel to motor attachment. Back to the drawing board :D
 

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#25 ·
It all gets busy now! So are you converting a different car or the V8 E36? Can never have to many 3 Series'!

Ben
I'll be converting a different car. I've yet to buy the donor but I have things to work on without it and the car I have is good for measurements. The v-8 3 series (357i) is gobs of fun but just can't pass the gas pumps :D The 3 seriess good handling, light weight, rear drive, and 4 doors make it a good swap candidtate for lots of things.
 
#28 ·
Lots available? See any good ones let me know. There are NONE in my town. The last 3 series I had to go to martinsville to buy. Hard to snag a deal that way.

Great progress so far Thaniel, and I agree with your decision to go with the taperlock, that is the last place you want a failure and it's usually catostrophic. Also you may want to check the shaft for any runout on your "9" before you put it all together, just a suggestion as my "11" had 0.011" runout with no apparent damage.
I've spent the last few evenings trying to work out which coupler to use and how to get the dimensions I need.

.011" runout from the factory??? That's not good. What'd you do?
 
#27 ·
Great progress so far Thaniel, and I agree with your decision to go with the taperlock, that is the last place you want a failure and it's usually catostrophic. Also you may want to check the shaft for any runout on your "9" before you put it all together, just a suggestion as my "11" had 0.011" runout with no apparent damage.
 
#30 ·
I checked runout today on the drive end of the motor. It was less than 0.0015" I don't see a max run out listed on their print but I believe that should be good.

I also hooked it up to my battery charger and ran it for a few min. It was nice and quiet. Quite satisfying to see/hear it spinnig. While I was at it I stood it on end and set the trans on top of it to ensure I have my dimensions correct for my adapter plate thickness. Thick enough to keep the trans input shaft from bottoming out but not too thick to have it not engage the end of the motor shaft. Looks like 1.125 thick is going to work great.

Here is a pic of my measuring set up. 2 pieces of angle bolted to the motor then some spacers (happen to be sockets in my case) of the right length.

 

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#29 ·
I called Net Gain and explained the problem, the customer service guy gave me a FedEx pickup#,next day it was gone and 9 days later I had a new one waiting at the door, no problems whatsoever. He even called a week after that to see how the new one was. Excellent cust service.
 
#31 ·
Here is my flywheel adapter redesigned to use a 1610 taper-lock and Modified Taperlock sprocket. I plan to install the taper lock with the setscrews facing the motor so the clutch pressure will press the adapter on tigher instead of trying to pull it off. The other big change is since the center of the sprocket is larger dia then the pilot of the flywheel I plan to use 2 dowels to locate the flywheel on the adapter. (one is in the flywheel from the factory. I'll have to add the other). I also plan to put a bushing/spacer between the motor and taperlock so the clutch force can push the assy forward.

Anyway I have attached a 3D screen shot and a drawing of the adapter for your review :D
 

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#32 ·
Well keeping things updated though I feel like I am talking to myself :D

I picked up a chassis for the swap and at the same time got a ride in TelnetManta's EV saturday.

Here's a pic of me pulling the BMW home with the land rover. Incidently I had just rebuilt the land rover's auto trans myself.:eek: After that experience I really have no interest of an auto trans in my EV....Or any other car for that matter.

 

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#34 ·


Here's and update. Holidays and my online racing season have been keeping me busy. But above is a picture of the the taper lock sprocket and taperlock bushing I purchased to use in my flywheel adapter (finally got around to ordering). Also pictured is an aluminum plate I'll use for part of the motor spacer, a bronze bushing I'll use as the pilot bushing (have to alter the OD slightly) and some keystock.

Dropped the Taperlock off at the machinist today. Should be a week or so until I get that back. I'm anxious to bolt the flywheel to the motor.
 

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#35 ·
My Flywheel adapter and one AL plate came back from the machinist today. I love seeing the parts turn from Cad into Real life. The adapter looks like it will work out exactly as planned. I have bolted it to the flywheel and slide it onto the motor shaft. I'll check it to see if it turned out true and straight and then I can go on to making the transmission plate. Here ae a couple pics.



http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1679&stc=1&d=1229739548
 

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