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Value of an EV (real and perceived)

4K views 23 replies 12 participants last post by  Woodsmith 
#1 · (Edited)
I didn't know where to post this, so I put it here. If I messed up and it has to be moved, I understand...

  1. After conversion, how does the re-sale value of an EV compare to comprable ICE vehicles in the same condition?
  2. How fast do typical EV components depreciate, compared to their ICE counterparts? Normally with ICE stuff, you can snag brand new parts for 50-75% of their original price, and good condition used parts for 50% or less.
  3. How do you value your conversion? Are you sentimentally attached to it and think it's worth the world on a stick, even if no one else seems to understand? Do you see it simply as a car/truck just like it was before, and just move on when the time comes? Somewhere in between?
 
#2 ·
  1. After conversion, how does the re-sale value of an EV compare to comprable ICE vehicles in the same condition?
hard to say since not that many people seem to sell them... just drive them to death. ;) some have seemed to sit on the market for a long time, but you can tell if its because the local interest is low, economy is bad, or something strange about a specific build.

  1. How fast do typical EV components depreciate, compared to their ICE counterparts? Normally with ICE stuff, you can snag brand new parts for 50-75% of their original price, and good condition used parts for 50% or less.
I haven't seen much precedent here except a few components on ebay that seem to follow general trend of used = 50% MSRP.

  1. How do you value your conversion?
I would say more toward to 'cost to convert' model including a fair rate for labor. I take great pride in show and tell, but am pragmatic enough to set the 'value' at the sum of conversion cost. I WISH that general public would recognize the effort and give me a pat on the back or something, but am not holding my breath. I m satisfied with hoping I can inspire somebody else to do a conversion too...
 
#3 ·
Great feedback dt! You also brought up a point I didn't think of:

4. How has the general public viewed, or seemed to value, your EV?

Since I am building a race rod I generally get a positive response. Non car guys are fascinated with the idea of building a vehicle from scratch, that it's old, and that it's all techy (the EV part). Diehard car nuts typically make some comment about the torque as soon as I say it's electric. I'm impressed that so many of them have even that much knowledge of the concept. The word seems to be spreading.
 
#4 · (Edited)
4. How has the general public viewed, or seemed to value, your EV?
it has been amazing to me how many people have NOTICED the two stories in the local paper over the last year about DIY conversions. I live in a city of just 100k people, so its not huge, but when I am almost anywhere and talk about the car, people say 'oh YOU'RE the guy that was in the paper'...

There are three conversions in town (as far as I know), and all three of us were in the paper at least once.

Lots of people are quick to qualify that EV couldn't work for them for one reason or another, but all seem genuinely interested and congratulatory on getting something rolling before OEMs have anything in the showrooms for mass consumption, and for lower cost. ;)
 
#5 ·
Many conversions are old economy cars, I imagine that holds the price down. Some guy converted a brand new Yaris, I think he got $25k for it, and offered to do them for $30k. I don't know how many total he sold. You could look at what Electric Blue and Wilderness EV sells their cars for, they have both sold of the order of 100 cars.
 
#6 ·
Great point about conversions being based on economy cars. That would definitely bring the resale value down. The conversion specialists' sales numbers and retail pricing gives some indication of perceived value on the front-end of the process. It will be interesting to see what resale values of professional conversions are on the back-end.
 
#7 ·
here's my input..

I think it matters greatly where you live. Not nearly as much interest in EV's in the Midwest as there is in the south east or western part of the US. You will almost certainly NOT get your money back (let alone your labor!) But it's a blast to do the conversion and even more fun to drive a pure electric vehicle.

Don't scrimp on the car! Do a nice car to begin with and you'll be happier with the conversion and have a bigger audience should you decide to sell down the road. And most people won't want to buy a car like this unless they can actually come and see it, drive it and feel comfortable that it was converted well. That's why location, much like real estate, is a big factor in its value.

My conversion was a well done one (if I do say so), with TONS of media coverage and a very nice, newer car (compared to many.) Still, I sold it for considerably less than it cost me - labor was a matter of love. And love is free. I had a great time doing it and would (and probably will) do another one. Have fun and be financially smart about your conversion, but don't expect to make your money back.
 
#8 ·
Interesting thread, as I was interested in the market value of EV conversions as well. Anecdotal data from my limited research on the web would confirm a lot of what people are saying here; you might get your costs back if you're lucky, but not the time. Perhaps with time the marketplace will put more value on these cars? I await to see if there will be more encouraging posts, perhaps with more tips like focusing more on converting high value cars.

Don
 
#9 ·
Personally, I am not concerned with recouping my initial investment - mine is beyond reasonable anyhow. I consider all cars except collector items to be a losing proposition, financially. I try to "get my money back" in usage, because there is no way to guarantee a return in resale. Even with collector cars, the market can swing at any time and leave you stuck with a bunch of bad investments (if that was your goal in buying them). I laugh sometimes watching Barrett-Jackson seeing an old Mustang sell for more than a Ferarri. The guy with the Ferrari has to be thinking, wtf! :eek::D

With this thread, I was just curious about resale because I had never really considered it. My main project is a street rod and would be a different circumstance from a normal EV conversion. Custom cars always have to find a person who happens to like them as much as the orginal owners and builders - to sell period. Many of your converisons look just like the original vehicle, minus the pollution.

I'm learning something though, because I never thought about the person who invests $10-15K to convert a Metro and then wants something different! I would bet that some of the more interesting conversions, like the original Minis, Spitfires, etc, might actually be good collector material someday. They're already special and the conversion might just add more to the mystique. Imagine tooling around in 2050 in a 40 year-old conversion, of a 80-90 year-old classic! That could be unbelievably cool. :cool:
 
#10 ·
Imagine tooling around in 2050 in a 40 year-old conversion, of a 80-90 year-old classic! That could be unbelievably cool. :cool:
does that make it a double collector? :D I think EVs in certain regards are almost worth more if they were to be parted out and sold when you plan to build a new one than if they are left all together considering the amount of conversions selling way below the price of their individual parts when I've looked....very interesting....we need an EV Kelly Blue Book :)
 
#12 ·
I don't think I have a financial value on my tractor. It costs a little bit of money but less then I would be spending on some other kind of entertainment or a few rounds in the local once or twice a week.
I see it as a small price to pay for some fun and entertainment.:)

My MR2 will, or should be, a financial dead loss in many respects. The savings from not using oil will not really cover the investment of money in the batteries and other parts. Then there is the labour element.

It is one reason why I found a car I thought I would be happy to own and drive into the ground. If I can keep it going for as long as possible then eventually it will 'earn its keep' in small savings and convenience but mostly in being different.

In many ways I should have chosen a different donor. I have no affiliation at all to the MR2, there is no love or hate, no passion, no history.
An MGB or a Land Rover would have been a better choice, even a BMW 2002 or a Ford Escort mk1.
It is probably because of that that I have the tractor project, something with passion.

The MR2 I can, and would, sell at the drop of a hat at any time for a reasonable sum, with or without the ev parts, but probably without as the parts can be reused.
The Tractor I wouldn't sell, it would be like selling a child! However, I could pass it on, like seeing a child married off I guess.:D
 
G
#13 ·
My opinion on the resale value of an electric vehicle. If you have a lot of hype behind you and build something like the Tesla you can find a few that are ready to plunk down a bundle of ca$h for your car. If you are a shade tree mechanic like most of us it will be harder to get a good return on your investment. One of the reasons people are leery of electric vehicles could be due to their lack of understanding of electricity. I know gas cars are pretty complex now days but most of the public are comfortable with them because the internal combustion engine has been around for a while and is part of the norm so they think they know how they work. Also most ev’s for sale are used and being electric the condition of the components are suspect. Buying a used car has always been considered sort of a risk. It is probably more so with an ev. I mean if you buy a new or rebuilt car part like a water pump or a carburetor and need to return it most likely the parts house will take it back. Not so with most electrical components. So these could be a factors in selling a used ev.
 
#14 ·
I've shopped for an electric car on Craigslist. It's a bit tough, I found 2 in Minnesota. I wasn't interested in buying one now but wanted to see what was around. One was a Fiero and another was a cheap rusty Pontiac. Both were being sold with lead acid batteries that had seen better days. The motor manufacturer I hadn't heard of and the controller wasn't listed.

Basically what I'm getting at is this:
When you buy an EV or build one, there are certain parts that people pay attention to, for me, I won't go with a Curtis DC, I don't want the whine, so I have something to replace. Lead-acid replace. Motor can't handle the voltage for the battery replacement or can't provide the power I want motor gets replaced. In many cases all I'm going to use is some of the wire and probably the ancillary components if they are installed. If I do that I might as well start from scratch. ...but if it comes with a familiar setup that provides what I want and maybe just needs a lead conversion to Lithium, I might consider something like that but the car needs to fit my needs too.

A car purchasing decision for a gasser is a personal enough choice, there are even more options and directions to go when doing an electric conversion so basically the seller sits with a very small buyer base.

IMO if you are building an EV today, you want to be sure that you are buying something you want to keep for a long time. Either that or you might just be parting it out onto eBay, Craigslist, and sites like these.
 
#15 · (Edited)
At least here in Seattle WA USA, decently done, modern, operational DC conversions on the secondary market seem to go for anywhere from about 70% to 100% of a typical retail conversion cost to replicate the car. This is largely independent of what the value of the vehicle was before the conversion. Case and point, it cost my about $8000 in EV components (not counting chassis restoration) to convert my MR2. It's reliable and running fine, but right now the batteries are pretty weak. So if I were to sell now (I'm not, just an example) I'd probably ask about $5500, which is roughly 70% of $8000. If I put new batteries in first, I'd probably ask the $8K and hope for the best.

If the car is a heap, or the conversion is outdated or poorly done, or not operational for any reason other than weak batteries, then you are looking at a few thousand typically.

This impression garnered from watching local sales on craigslist and through SEVA.

As for conversions becoming collector items, I sort of doubt it is likely except for very well done conversions of otherwise desirable or unique vehicles. I doubt my 1985 lead acid MR2 conversion will ever be a classic owing to its being a conversion. But if somebody did a nice clean conversion of a 1950's chevy nomad with a dual 9", Z2K and lithium, it might hold value.

I also think that conversions on the secondary market are likely to lose value as soon as it is possible to buy a reasonably priced mass market EV. Case and point, the nissan leaf will cost about 25K after tax credits for decent small car performance and 100 miles range. It is possible for that same budget to build an AC conversion with similar range, but it is still a homebuilt and many people, comparing the two will assign more value to the commercial product. it will get even more extreme if and when enough nissan leafs, Mitsubishi imievs, etc. get onto the used market at some fraction of their original price, but still with decent range and performance.

Convert for the love of it. Or convert at an hourly rate for somebody else. Convert-and-sell has always been difficult to make profitable, and I think it is going to get worse.
 
#16 ·
Wow, this is awesome feedback guys! Aren't there any gals around here?!

As I said, I am not really interested in or concerned about resale value of my projects. I just had a general curiousity about it. I am building my street rod as a busines marketing tool, so its value is measured much differently than resale. My e-bike project is for me. It's my toy that I want just because I want it. I don't care what it's worth, it just has to make me smile.

Actually, what you guys are describing is the beginning of a niche market. That creates the possibility that some of these conversions could be worth something significant someday. The reason muscle cars and custom hot rods are selling for such incredible numbers today is fifty years ago (or more) they were someone's fantasy car. They basically pick up where they left off years ago (to go to school, get married, raise families, etc) and continue - only some of them have a lot of money to spend now. If DIY EVs are being built out of passion now, they could be revisted in the same way in the future. That's a big "if" but I am just observing possibilities - for fun. ;)

My point here is not to try to figure out how to capitalize on something, or make it happen. I'm just trying to fully embrace the moment in time we're in. If it did happen, imagine remembering being on this forum while watching Woody's tractor go across the Barrett-Jackson stage for a half-million bucks! Don't worry Woody, the proceeds are going to your favorite charity and the new owner is putting it in a museum to preserve an important part of EV history! :D

I just have this deja vu thing in my head. I was a kid, but I was there when muscle cars were burning up their bias-plies. I watched hot rodding turn from a small cottage industry to the major force that it is today. You can go purchase a new Camaro with over 400 horsepower today, but for some people that will never compare to building an original 69 to their own specs.

The issue of value is even similar. When I was in high school, you could purchase tri-five Chevies, in decent condition, for a few hundred bucks. Old muscle cars were cheap transportation (gas was 59-cents a gallon when I started driving :)). Just like you guys are saying with parting out EVs, you could buy cars that would be worth good money today cheap then, for parts.

Like I said, I am just enjoying the moment we're in. No motives, no expectations - it just feels familiar. It's a lot of fun. :)
 
#18 ·
Wow, this is awesome feedback guys! Aren't there any gals around here?!
No, they have too much sense...


As I said, I am not really interested in or concerned about resale value of my projects.
I think a stark distinction needs to be made between a unique vehicle like your's, Todd, versus an ordinary Honda/Ford/Geo/Toyota/etc.

The tangerine orange Cord replica that Speedster/RebirthAuto built has a standing offer, IIRC, north of $200k.

Don't expect to receive the same sort of offers for some 1980's econo-car equipped with a used forklift motor, Lovejoy coupling and plate aluminum adapter, a wheezing Curtis controller and saggy lead-acid batteries.

That said, it does appear that the conversion business is a particularly tough one to make a living. I much prefer manufacturing the stuff compared to installing it ;)
 
G
#17 ·
Ah. For the good old days. Location S. Calif. I remember sliding into the full service gas station in my Jet black 57 Ford custom cab Pickup with a 260 V8 and insisting on pumping the twenty five cent a gallon high test myself. There was literally a gas station on just about every corner and they would have a gas wars bringing it down to 19cents a gallon or less. No one harping on me about my carbon foot print as I slopped that goop into the tank. That was 1962 and there were individuals building electric cars back then. The post office even had electric mail delivery trucks. I wonder what the value would be set at today for one of those vehicles? Chances are it would be more than a freshly converted EV. So there is hope for Woody’s tractor. The question is will any of us live to see it?
 
#19 ·
If you want to sell a converted EV, now is the time. Cars like the Leaf/Volt/iMev/etc will quickly drive down the value of conversions. A lot of people bought or did conversions because that was the only way to drive an electric car. That exclusivity is going away quickly.

I think, in the future, the only EVs that will hold value are those that are so unique they stand out. A well done conversion of a classic car might be popular with the hot rod and collector crowd, but even the nicest Honda Civic conversion will pale in comparison to cars like the Leaf and lose value quickly.
 
#21 ·
I think what a lot of us are forgetting here is that we are heavily modifying our vehicles. For every "well done" conversion, there are probably a dozen "hack jobs" like mine. A conversion won't add value to a worthless car, and a conversion can only bring down the value of an original car to begin with. Take a brand new BMW, strip it down, make a beautiful electric conversion, and what do you have? A rather unique vehicle with a very limited audience it could appeal to. No matter how well done the modifications were, if someone were interested in that particular model BMW, they would think twice about it if they weren't looking for an electric vehicle in the first place. Think about all the heaps of junk for sale that someone originally wanted to make a "rat rod" out of. And think about the value that same car may have had if the original parts had been kept intact. I think if push came to shove and financial distress forced the sale of our beloved EV, we'd be hard pressed to find a taker at ANY price. With that said, I realize my car has no value to anyone but me, and to me its value is priceless.
 
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