DIY Electric Car Forums banner

Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

177K views 451 replies 18 participants last post by  toddshotrods 
#1 ·
So, some of you may remember my Tailfeather Project, which was suppposed to be a stablemate for the Inhaler. Well, a lot has happened. One, the Inhaler no longer resides in my personal "stables". It is now a joint venture (I'm still majority owner) between myself and my partner Alex (Columbus Idea Foundry). Two, I kind of lost interest in my Honda, and couldn't see committing myself to a project halfheartedly. We are developing a line of kit cars and products, based loosely on the Inhaler, and the first prototype kit is my personal car - giving me a project to express myself with, now that the Inhaler is all grown up and has moved out. :D

The hybrid concept of the Tailfeather Project is going to live on in my kit. In fact, that very Honda powertrain is being transplanted into the back of the car, and electric drive is moving up to the front wheels. This is literally the reincarnation of that project, with a twist. Without further ado, here is Schism (the art anyway :)):

As you can see it has more than a passing resemblance to the Inhaler, and the art is based on old Inhaler art. This isn't a dream, I am ordering parts and materials now, and we intend to have the car at least together in March, and fully functional by summer.


Instead of relying on electric for racing power, and ICE as a sort of range extender, this car will rely on ICE for race power, and electric will be the supplement. I haven't done any calculations yet to determine what kind of range it will have, but it will be possible to drive on pure electric. The ICE will eventually be turbo, and ethanol and/or gas burning - we're shooting for 800hp. I would like to have about 200hp of electric power up front, but that will depend of what type of motor I end up with; completely undecided on that right now. Everything will be there ready for the motor, when I find it. I am building the front suspension with Honda FWD wheel bearing hubs, and I have the diff, so it will just be a matter of coupling the motor to the diff. Right now I am planning on direct drive, and gearing it for speeds up to maybe 35mph. I'm keeping the speed range of the electric drive low now to have brisk acceleration, without a large motor. That will allow me to launch with AWD, when racing, and continue to accelerate with turbo ICE power. It also helps with lag issues, and allows me to run a bigger turbo.
 
See less See more
1
#253 · (Edited)
I started a thread in Techinical Discussion, but haven't received any replies, so I will ask here as well.

Does anyone know what OEM TPS (throttle position sensor) is best for a custom pot box?

EDIT: Nevermind, I get it now. I was under the impression that TP-Sensors were all Hall effect. I didn't realize that the older ones pretty much all just send a voltage signal to the ECU. That's makes it easy, I can just pick the one that best suits the design. :)
 
#254 ·
I backed the intake manifold design up to something much more simple. The plenum will be a simple fabricated aluminum sheet metal, rounded, box. The throttle body (TB) will bolt directly to the top of it, and be capped off with a vintage, oil bath, style air cleaner. The devil will be in the details...


The details aren't present in this CAD rendering either, as it's just a rough sketch to see if I liked the look of a simple aluminum plenum and oil bath air cleaner. The sides of the air cleaner will roll under, kind of bowl-shaped; the top will have a recess in the center for my Bat-T logo emblem; and the top will be fastened with three or four "buckles" around the perimeter.

The air cleaner is actually just a hat for the boosted air to blow into the TB through. Also not present is the traditional air cleaner "snorkel", which will roll under and point towards the oil pan (where the tube will actually come from, bringing the fresh air charge). I'm thinking about making the connection of the snorkel to the air cleaner housing fairly obvious with it being seemingly attached by hand-docked, copper, rivets. (Yup, I'm aware of galvanic reaction.corrosion. :p:))
 
#256 · (Edited)
One of the biggest hurdles in this project, has been coming up with upper suspension mounts that I liked. I have been trying for months, and everything I tried I hated. The breakthrough came when one of the Team members (Ahmed, the industrial design major) started drawing. I didn't ultimately use his idea, but it was the catalyst I needed. In the spirit of the rear plates we just carved out, here are the front mounts. Six pieces, almost self aligning, and we'll have front suspension! I only added two more brackets to each side, but the front sure does look busy; and there's more stuff to go in there! :eek::D


In the process, I also solved another dilemma - headlights. They visually extend the roll cage tubes through to the front, to match how the rear cage tubes end. The front can't go through both brackets because the axles pass through that space. These little miniature lights won't technically be legal, but here in the great state of Ohio, we can get away with a lot on custom vehicles. If they happen to pass the legislation that would allow me to register this as an actual 1919 Ford Model T, these lights will far exceed the factory specifications. ;) If not, I'll use regular street rod lights to get past inspection and take my chances that the cops won't really care in real life.

The plan is based on hollow aluminum spheres. Cut a hole for the lense on the front, fabricate Delrin-bushed pivot ball type clamping rings, and fit a 10-12w LED in the back. Adjustment is by loosening the clamp rings, rotating the ball, and locking the rings again. Initially, we'll just polish the inside of the sphere (the reflector surface), and probably have it chrome plated (on the inside only) later for a better reflective surface and less maintenance.

The design follows what we're doing in back for the tail lights. They'll be inside the rear cage bars, that poke through the rear chassis plates, with small five-bolt trim rings holding clear acrylic lenses.

Why wouldn't we make our own headlights? We're making everything else! :p:D
 
#258 · (Edited)
Got a render with full bodywork, so I can see what the headlights look like?...
Full bodywork is really a relative term in this case, but yeah I'll put the new stuff in the full mock-up model, with the door-less body skin on it. I don't know if that point was made clear, but that's it - that body and the grille, no hood, no deck; like a hot babe in a bikini! :D

It'll take a minute because that file is pretty big and takes almost a gig of memory to open and work in, and I have some other stuff to finish before my , not so swift, geriatric, computer can tackle that. :rolleyes::)



...BTW you and your group are pretty amazing...
Thanks Mike! :) We're having fun, and getting warmed up now. I just picked up a new intern, that's hitting the ground running, and has me expecting greatness already. More details on that coming up tonight or tomorrow morning...




...I'm recovering from my surgery, so hopefully I'll be able to start back on mine around the middle of September.

Mike
Uh-oh, I'd better get moving on that roof! :eek:;)
 
#259 ·
Oh, I thought it had a turtle deck and hood. Well don't go through to much trouble then. I can get a good enough idea with your current pic.

Still, no hurry on the roof. When/if a break comes in your schedule then maybe you can make some progress on it. I've got a lot of ground to cover brakes, motor/trans coupling, electrical etc... I might need the door pattern though for when I stretch the body... But I think I can do that after too...
 
#260 ·
Oh, I thought it had a turtle deck and hood. Well don't go through to much trouble then. I can get a good enough idea with your current pic...
That was before I lost my mind and start tossing (virtual) parts in the trash - like the hood, deck, and doors! :D

It's no trouble really, I want to see the composite myself. I just have to do it when I don't need the computer for a lot of other stuff. I can get away with some mild web surfing, I think. :rolleyes:



...Still, no hurry on the roof. When/if a break comes in your schedule then maybe you can make some progress on it. I've got a lot of ground to cover brakes, motor/trans coupling, electrical etc... I might need the door pattern though for when I stretch the body... But I think I can do that after too...
Gotcha. I'm looking forward to doing those things though, so it hopefully won't be too long.




I was in my little office planning away and a pretty lady knocked on the rough opening (don't have a door installed yet) and asked if she could come work on the hot rods with us! What do you think I said?! :D Amanda is an ME graduate student at OSU, and is interning at the Columbus Idea Foundry. Alex, my partner and the founder of the Idea Foundry, is gracious enough to share his interns with us - that's how Evan came in too. I return the favor by stealing them, almost completely, from him! :D

Anyway, Amanda hit the ground running tonight. She's fluent in CAD, so I had her model a quick wooden template to cut the center holes in the brake/clutch master cylinder mounting plate Kyle had been working on. The template was for cutting the center holes with the plasma cutter, so the template holes are half the diameter of the plasma's tip over the size of the actual hole. I measured, she modeled, we cut the template, made some thickness adjustments on the (metal) mill to get the tip closer to the steel, and Amanda cut the center holes and smoothed them out just enough for the master cylinders to fit. It's obviously fresh off the plasma here.

The scratch-outs, and multiple patterns in a pattern, aren't Amanda's fault. I was having one of them days when I did this one for Kyle to get started on it (last week). I think it was lack of sleep induced. First, I forgot that the clutch (smaller vertical mount in the right) was supposed to be higher, then I couldn't seem to reconcile in my tired mind which way was higher on the pattern. Eventually, after a few pieces of tape, and a lot of scribbling, I got it. Notice, I even scratched out the right clutch master cylinder mounting hole once though. :eek::D





Tomorrow, I'll get the mounting holes located and drilled, and post pics of the master cylinders bolted to it.
 
#262 ·
:D




Here are a couple composite shots, with the digital Schism in traditional automotive photography style poses. A couple issues have come to light, as the technical design concerns begin to plant their flags in the available real estate. One, my beloved antique clock dome controller enclosure probably isn't going to fit anywhere in Schism; certainly not in front of the motor. :( I haven't given up trying to make it fit but logic and practicality suggest a more conventional enclosure and layout might be in the cards. The main reason is I need a some type of differential on the front drive, and the most feasible plan is to use an existing automotive diff, and drive it from the jackshaft by chain (more on that after the pics). I had considered an electronic diff, with a small clutch (or clutch pack) on each axle but that puts control of that drive system in some coder's hands and I refuse to go there with Schism. We have maintained control, keeping every possible aspect of this build in our own hands, and the results speak for themselves - in seven months we have almost totally handcrafted a really radical, high quality, custom vehicle. That's the main reason I loved, and jumped on, Tom's suggestion to have a dual-function throttle pedal - it removes the need for someone to build and program an ICE-to-electric interface - I am that interface!

Two, I also need that space to move the inner CV joints of the axles inboard of the front lower control arm mounts. In the renderings you can see that the CV joint interferes with the front upper control arm mount (there's a plate on top that runs from front to rear mount, and mounts the upper control arm - it runs right through the middle of the CV joint and axle!). A longer axle, with a centrally located diff, would solve that problem. A small "C-notch" will be needed on the plate to clear the axle, but that's a simple fabrication task.


Mike here's a good shot of the headlights, and you can use your imaginator to think about how the rear tail lights would match them. I'm toying with the idea of the five bolt mounting pattern in the locking rings (to match the other five bolt aluminum parts) being a five lug pattern instead, with custom wrenches to tighten and loosen them. Then, I can (theorectially) implant amber LEDs in them for the park and turn lights, and back up lights in the tail lights. I'm playing with small fractions of an inch here, so I'll have to see if I can actually make it work. I have to get specs on the LEDs before I start on them in CAD because everything looks huge in there, and I'll design something that would require an electron microscope to produce! :eek:




On the front diff: I'm working on an idea to cut a Honda diff from the transmission, and replace the transmission section with a modeled/machined/fabricated chain case. The input gear on the diff would be replaced with a sprocket. The jackshaft would plug directly into the chain case, so there would only be only exposed chain (from motor to jackshaft). I'll make up for that with a really antique, steampunk-ish, appearing chain case - so you know there's another chain in there! This allows me to use existing aftermarket racing parts to build a suitable diff and do most, if not all, of the work in-house.

Honestly, it will probably look better, more balanced, and more purposeful, than I clock dome anyway. :rolleyes::)
 
#263 ·
Thanks Todd, I definitely like the headlights and mounts... Very nice... I still think it needs a hood, but I'm sure your gonna awe me with your work and change my mind :) It is kinda cool, and direct that it shows off what a Hybrid is with the Engine and motor in full view.

Once again... Awesome work... Wish I had some pretty help... Well I do have my wife, but she's more of a distraction than help... :)
 
#264 ·
Thanks Todd, I definitely like the headlights and mounts... Very nice... I still think it needs a hood, but I'm sure your gonna awe me with your work and change my mind :)...

Once again... Awesome work...
Thanks Mike! :) That's pretty high praise, I hope we live up to it. :eek::)

Schism should really start coming together now. It's an interesting concept because normally there's a body that wraps the whole package up and makes it all make sense. With this car, all those little bits and pieces we're working so hard on have to form that collective impression; kind of like one of those "paintings" made from thousands of bottle caps or something. It's very challenging, and extremely rewarding when we see different areas come to life. The interior is a good example. There's really almost no interior, but as we add components you begin to "see" an interior. If you really look at it, there are two lower seat sections (shorter than a low back bucket - almost literally a "seat"), a few controls, and a roll cage, but it's beginning to create the impression of an automotive interior. The ridiculous shifter mount positions a shift knob appropriately with the seats, and resembles an armrest, so your brain sees a place to park your azz and drive/ride in a car...



...Wish I had some pretty help... Well I do have my wife, but she's more of a distraction than help... :)
I am really pleased that the Inhaler Project is, finally, beginning to draw women - and proud as heck that they want to come work on the hot rods, not just sit in the office and look pretty.

There is an article in Hot Rod magazine where they rode around the LA area with an old rat rod and a new Lambo, and women preferred the rat rod - I can believe that by the reaction we've been getting with our hot rods. Makes me happy too... ;)
 
#265 ·
We accomplished a lot, but the constant rush to keep the interns and volunteers fed with a steady diet of fabrication tasks kept me so focused on small details that I wasn't really stepping back and looking at the big picture of what's coming together on the shop floor. Those last CAD composite mock-ups renderings were close, but I was still looking at them through the view of my crew, in the shop, making stuff; not from the aesthetic perspective of a complete vehicle.

The shop is pretty quiet these days, as the interns have all started school again, and after a few days I finally settled back into my typical design mode. The first thing I noticed is the gap between the body and rear wheels. The roll cage bar running back there draws your eyes to it now, and I realized that I needed to connect the dots. The original plan was for faux trunks on the sides, in those spaces, so I returned to it with a piece of poster board.

Much better. It connects the ICE drivetrain to the rest of the car, and kind of stretches the whole car out, making it appear to be longer and lower. I'll let this stew for a day or so, and then start modeling, then cutting foam cores. Instead of permanent trunks, I am going more for a fitted luggage theme. Maybe, depending on how all the materials and finishes play out, they can actually be upholstered with leather to match the seat pads. They MUST have awesome, antique-looking, buckles! :D I also needed this space for drivetrain components. I had hoped to put the motor controller as close as possible to the motor, but it may end up in one of these cases, and the ICE ECU and components in the other side.
 
#266 ·
The master cylinder mount is coming along.



Ditto the emergency brake handle. It fits on the back of the two, center, roll bar stanchion tubes the shifter mount will bolt to. The shifter's mounting studs will pass through the e-brake mount, which works like big thick washers on the other side of the stanchions.



Interesting place for an emergency brake, eh?! :eek::D
 
#268 ·
Amanda was back yesterday evening and did some plasma cutting and grinding on the rear upper control arm brackets. The progress is slower, until the shop gets flooded with the next wave of interns, the but work on this car will continue. We're going to make a push in the next few weeks to try to get the suspension in place and the car rolling and steering...
 
#269 ·
With Schism's new "company car" focus in mind, I started looking for a way to improve the occupant space; i.e., find more leg/foot room. Sliding the entire body forward, about four inches, was the solution. The resulting issue is the motor was right in front of the firewall, so it had to go forward too. Kez had mucho time in slotting the crossmember into the frame, and Evan and some of the other interns an even more ridiculous amount of time cutting and grinding the actual mounting plates, so I wanted to find a solution that had the least amount of human-labor carnage. It's going to work beautifully, and probably be even stronger than before, with only one piece sacrificed to the gods of excess.

The solution is to make the main motor mount pedestal plate the rearward-most front suspension mount. Amanda carefully located the pivot holes on the motor's pedestal plate, drilled them, and then removed the old suspension mounts.



The small longitudinal saddle mount piece will be redesigned and replaced with a larger piece that reaches back to, and wraps around, Kez's crossmember. That will actually feed the torque reaction of the motor more directly into the crossmember. For the motor to rotate, it would have to twist and drive that crossmember out of the frame.
 
#270 ·
It's baaaccckk! Schism returns to the TPD stable, with Scrape! After a lot of careful consideration of where we're going with the Inhaler Project, I realized that Schism is not the right training tool for the future "classes" of interns and volunteers, so it returns to being my personal project and responsibility. It's still being built in the Inhaler Project shop, so some of the most skilled members of Team Inhaler will work on it from time to time, but the main responsibility falls on Curt and I to make it real. I'm dropping some parts off to him, at his day job, today or tomorrow to get the suspension wrapped up, and Schism on its paws. I had it on hold to wait for the next round of interns to get it rolling, but it's on the fast track now - I hope :).

Amanda is one of the Team Inhaler interns that will continue to work on Schism (along with Evan). She was in last night and worked on the new motor mount, while I got back to work on the throttle pedal.




Just because we can, and to experiment with metals, fabrication, and welding processes, etc, (for future Inhaler intern projects) I decided to cut and weld a piece into the original cradle mounting plate, to adapt it to the new motor mount location. Amanda has been working on this piece for the past couple weeks (she works for a few hours on Sundays) and has it almost ready.



This piece extends back, is obviously much more massive, wraps around the 3x3" crossmember, and will transmit the torque directly into that piece. I am V-notching both sides, of both pieces, to weld the heck out of it; plus, the part is in compression, not tension, as it resists the counter-rotation of the motor.
 
#272 ·
:D Of course, you do realize that the focus changes from my Team's incredibly fast fabrication learning curve, to my incredibly ridiculous design obsession, right?! :D I will try to keep the pace moving though. Number one goal right now is just to get it rolling, and then to get Curt setup to get it running. Then, I start to play again, creatively... ;)
 
#273 ·
A sneak peek at Schism's future. :)

I do this sometimes to block out all pesky little details, so I can focus on the big picture. You'd probably never guess it, by my posts here, but I am really a big picture guy - paying attention to the small stuff is a discipline I learned to enhance my big picture visions.

So, obviously, the roof is back - but still doorless. I needed more attitude and, honestly, my middle-aged azz doesn't like the thought of almost literally roasting in our globally-warmed summers. I want to be able to drive Shism - a lot - and that means not having to wait for the sun to ease up, or being overly fearful of a few drops of rain. I'll probably make snap-on, or pop-on, soft doors for it eventually.

The "fitted luggage bags" have been in the cards for quite a while. There was originally going to be a large trunk to cover the radiator, but I like having everything exposed, and need more space to put important stuff, so I came up with the saddle bag idea. I just kicked them up a notch (in back) to match the aggressive rake of the roof.

I must admit that I am more focused on driving now than racing. I finally realized that the pursuit of advanced design concepts has officially taken over as the force of my life; displacing racing and extremely elevated performance. That is not to say I don't plan to build a lot of power, and race a little, I simply mean it is not the beef patty in my burger anymore; it's more like a condiment.
 
#276 · (Edited)
Today was a good day for Schism. I burned the first five or six hours of the day just mentally going over Schism and Scrape from every conceivable angle, and thinking about how they will fit into my business and personal plans and life. Then I remembered that Amanda was due in at six, and that I had given Curt the motor mount saddle piece, and rear upper control arm brackets, she had been whittling. I needed something new for her, and also needed to get back on track with the front suspension, post external hard drive crash, so to CAD I went. I didn't finish until long after she was gone, but the front upper control arms (UCA) are once again modeled and ready to be cut.


I changed the design a little bit, fixing some potential weak spots, spending more time in CAD this time working the front roll cage bars around the motor, and verifying (as much as possible) how everything else would work around the UCA mounts. I also enlarged the headlights a tiny bit (from 1.625' to 2"). The last time I had originally created that front hole for the roll cage tubing to pass through but realized later that the axle also runs through there, so I used the location for lighting. The idea is to match the rear lighting, which is in the end of the roll cage tubes, so even without the tubing actually extending forward to the light, it's all in the same line - hopefully obsessive types like me will notice. :rolleyes:

I didn't bother with creating surfaces this time, just the profile curves that will (hopefully) be etched or engraved directly on the steel this time; as opposed to printing patterns and tracing them on the steel.




As for Amanda, since I didn't finish in time for her to do testing and research on that pattern process, I gave her the electric drive control switch levers to work on. I was determined to give her a break from the right angle grinder today. :) We had previously cut the rough shape out of two scrap pieces of alloy, and I had already turned the ends for the knobs. Amanda unleashed some of her super-heroine girl power skills and started making chips on the manual mill.



She drilled the pivot holes, and machined the levers down to the right thickness, carefully leaving the little ribs up top. Those were done with a .750" ball-nosed end mill to provide a gentle radius up, off the lever. They will be hand finished from here, and will be pointers that flow out of the lever and out onto the "gate plate", where they will hover over the appropriate little glass globe to indicate what mode the electric drivetrain is in.


This is obviously one of those Todd parts that I am going all the way off the deep-end on; up to, and including, fine-tuning the feel of the levers clicking through their positions with the right pressure ball detents and springs... :rolleyes::D

The other two depressions in the foam dash plug will hold push-pull switches, with matching illuminated globes, and 1000% OCD-fueled little knobs. :cool:
 
#277 · (Edited)
I had planned, as mentioned, to start etching or engraving the patterns directly on the steel, but Curt was ready for more parts, so I rushed these through, the old way, with more laser-cut poster board patterns. I was a little thin around the inside edges of the headlight opening, for some reason, but that's easily corrected while grinding them out. The important part is they're out of my CAD workshop and on the way to being real steel... :)







I'm also making progress on the roof model. It's just roughed in right now to get the basic shape worked out. I'm attempting to strike a careful balance between Model T, Roaring 20's grand touring cars, and classic Ford, styling cues. I also want the roof, and the whole car, to be heavily stylized, and "artsy". Now, that the basic form is set, I can start working the lumps, bumps, and kinks out, and adding more detail...
 
#278 ·
This motor mount has been like a relay race. Quite a few interns got their paws dirty getting these pieces cut out and ground down to shape. Amanda was the last one, doing the cut-n-grind on the new saddle mount piece. Curt finished that up, and made life extremely easy on me - I had very little to do to get these two pieces tacked together on the car. Awesome work Team! :)




Then I rolled the saddle...





I was pretty psyched about seeing the motor in the car, by this point, but made myself quit because I really need to take my time and get everything to fit together and line up, just so.


More to come... :)
 
#280 ·
Thanks Mike! :)


This little piggy is about to become Schism's chain-driven front differential. I was kicking around the idea of how to go about this one day, and Googled it. I discovered that there's really nothing to a chain drive differential. Instead of a stationary housing, they have what are basically cups on either side to seal the internals from the elements. The bearings are outside of the housing seals. Easy breezy, so I dissected my Toyota Celica GTS differential.


It's an open diff right now, but a Phantom Grip LSD kit will fix that someday. To make it work, I am going to get rid of the tapered roller bearings, and mount it on sealed roller bearings on the stub shafts.

I haven't decided yet whether I am going to fabricate or go CAD/CNC with the housings. Of course, I am itching to model and cut them, but I have to consider time and money spent. Another option is to see if I can find a couple pieces of aluminum rod cheap and turn them manually - still a substantial investment of time though. If I do turn them, or have them cut on a CNC lathe, I can have radially finned aluminum housings, with a big aluminum sprocket sandwiched in between them - how cool is that! :cool::D

to be continued... ;)
 
#281 · (Edited)
The goal is to develop an artistic depiction of an antique vehicle, that also feels "old" in use, but is rendered with modern technology, materials, and processes. I'm working my way from the inside-out because early 20th century automobiles were full of levers and pedals and switches, that kind of set the "tone" (to me) for the whole vehicle; wonderfully complex and sophisticated.
 
#282 · (Edited)
With the recent discussions about using a DC motor controller as a charger, I realized I may have a leg up on this with Schism's SepEx motor. (If anyone has links to threads on this subject please post them.)

Since it's mainly a matter of reversing the field - easy as pie for me to do - shouldn't I be able to drive, regen charge, and plug-in charge, all from the same controller? :) If so, this would make for a really simple, clean, installation - AND - would give me a true KERS type boost system; as long as my batteries could handle large doses of charge current.
 
#283 ·
I searched every conceivable option for making my sidewinder style electric front drive work, and the answer was right under my nose the whole time. I originally purchase this little Toyota diff for an EV project that I ultimately decided not to pursue - sometimes little distractions and detours pay off! :D It's the final piece of the puzzle.

 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top