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What are the best LiFePo Battery for your $ -Thunder Sky, CALB, Headway, Hi-Power?

Lithium Battery compared - Thunder Sky, CALIB, Headway, Hi-Powers, etc.

104K views 185 replies 36 participants last post by  1-ev.com 
#1 · (Edited)
Lithium Battery compared -$- Thunder Sky, CALB, Headway, Hi-Powers, etc.

I want to start this thread to compare Lithium Battery, based on personal experiences.

Let try to keep this compact, so it would be easy to use it as a reference later.

I am thinking what should I get Thunder Sky, CALB, Headway, Hi-Powers?

Thank you all in advance for all inputs!!!:):):):)
 
#113 ·
Sinopoly costed HK$2.75 billion to purchase Thunder Sky Battery Limited in 25th May, 2010.
Im just from Sinopoly Battery Limited.

Regarding the Announcements, please visit the vents "Dec 2009, The Company entered into a letter of intent to purchase a lithium battery project for HK$2.75 billion" and "May 2010, The Acquisition in relation to the lithium battery project is completed" of following link,
http://www.sinopolybattery.com/html/about_investor.php

Thunder Sky changed its name as Winston Battery Limited and still sell LiFePO4 battery. As this action has deeply infringed on our company's related benefit, Sinopoly prosecuted Winston and recommend all the customers to stop purchasing Winston battery



If you guys need lithium battery, please contact with me.
sinopoly.david@gmail.com
Skype: sinopoly.david
 
#116 · (Edited)
I'll be interested once they have their US warehouse ready because if they are friendly for providing a sample I can test it against a 100Ah CALB cell that arrived in the states just a few months back that I might be able to borrow. I don't have any loose cells at the moment for testing. I'm most interested in low temperature performance, what I can get out of them at -20f is my testing goal, although I might only be able to get to -10f in reality but it should be enough of a test. I'm going to try and track down a recent Thundersky 100Ah cell too if I can find one. This test may be months out though, really depends largely on a reliable HiPower distributor.

Edit: Now that I've reviewed the specs, The problem is that I'd likely purchase the 100Ah LX cells instead of the more powerful ones as my conversion is space limited, lightweight, will likely be high voltage, and the LX cells are smaller and lighter and although the PWs might be comparable I'm not sure I could justify the size or weight as I'd take a lighter smaller cell to be an advantage in my application. The pulse spec is a 60 second spec, if they can do a little more for 10 seconds I'm golden already. I am curious how the power cells perform but realistically I don't stand to have an advantage to test something that I know wouldn't be used by me. The comparison would likely not be considered fair.
 
#119 ·
Sinopoly continually improves the technology, production facilities, production method, productivity, product performance, after service etc.

Sinopoly has a production base in Liaoyuan city (northwest of China).We are establishing other two bases now, one is in Tianjin city, another is in Nanjing city.

Now our productivity is 700 million Ah per year. Our goal is
Year 2012, 0.2 billion Ah per year
Year 2013, 1.5 billion Ah per year

Sinopoly LiFePO4 battery is with many perfect advantages including absolute safety, 100% A-class quality, lower internal resistance, stable performance, long cylce life, good discharge performance in low temperature (more than 90% efficiency at -20), high consistency etc.

Now our LiFePO4 battery models includes 10/15/20/40/60/90/100/180/200/260/300/400/700/1000Ah.

If you have the interest in our company products or any questions, please feel free to contact with me.

David
Email: sinopoly.david@gmail.com
Skype: sinopoly.david
Sinopoly Battery Limited
 
#121 ·

Sinopoly LiFePO4 battery is with many perfect advantages including absolute safety, 100% A-class quality, lower internal resistance, stable performance, long cylce life, good discharge performance in low temperature (more than 90% efficiency at -20), high consistency etc.

Now our LiFePO4 battery models includes 10/15/20/40/60/90/100/180/200/260/300/400/700/1000Ah.
David,

The website lists 0°C as the lowest temperature for charging. With more than 90% efficiency at -20°C what happens if the batteries are charged below 0°C? I have not been able to find a technical answer to this question.

Also, the website doesn't list anything smaller than 40Ah cells. Are the smaller cells in the new black case ones?

Thank you,
 
#122 · (Edited)
I think David might be catching up with responding to the forum. I sent an email and got a 9 page 20Ah specsheet. 40Ah cells and larger are plastic cases, the 20Ah or smaller cells are a polymer style pouch cell. 20Ah is 185x133x9.2mm with tabs at 500 grams max weight. 10Ah is 136x88x9.2mm 250 grams max weight. The rest of the specs are listed the same as the standard cells are at 5C pulse, 3C continuous discharge and 3C charge to 3.8v and then taper current down to 0.02C.

I asked some application specific questions about the 10Ah cell and got some follow up questions about my application.

Send him an email for information and specsheets, the information is more detailed but in reality their site has all of the details for their 40Ah+ cells but you may need to ask to get the information for sizes that aren't listed.

Edit: Product testings http://www.sinopolybattery.com/html/products_testings.php
 
#123 ·
I have thus far used Headway in a 4s1p configuration and I killed them by charging them while charging from a lead acid battery. I was intentionally misusing the batteries to see how robust they were, but I only had one set, so I did not get to compare them to cells treated nicely. I also have a pack of Thunder-Sky LYP40AHA cells in 32s1p configuration. I killed one cell and almost killed another while installing them. I shorting the two cells on the motorcycle frame due to the lack of assistance and not preparing properly. I fixed that problem by using abs plastic sheets to cover the connections. I originally began using the cells without a BMS, though not by choice. I intended to purchase a BMS through Alliance, but I could not get the info I wanted, so I opted to try out just monitoring the cells using Cell Log8s. After receiving and using the Cell Logs, I will not recommend them, because 2 of them stopped functioning due to as of yet unknown reasons. Lastly, I purchased and received a Mini BMS system that I am testing on half of my battery pack. I will be updating my experience with the Mini BMS as I get data. I just finished installing them and can only say that Mike at Lithium Storage was very helpful and support and documentation from the manufacturer of Mini BMS has been great. I believe I dealt with Dmitri, who answered all of my questions quickly and thoroughly. I ran into a dead end with my tests as my variable power supply (used for charging) died.
 
#124 ·
Lastly, I purchased and received a Mini BMS system that I am testing on half of my battery pack.
Only on half of the pack? This is NOT what you want to do! The MiniBMS draws about 6mA continuously so you will grossly imbalance your pack with no way to get the others in line unless you install the miniBMS boards on the rest of the pack. Note that 6mA=0.006A so over 24 hours they are draining 0.144Ah per day and 4.32Ah per month. If you charge so the miniBMS reaches the shunting voltage to compensate for this loss you will be over charging the other cells in your pack. Either put a BMS on each cell or don't run one at all.
 
#127 ·
Wouldn't it pretty much depend on your application and needs?

From my understanding, the CALB cells are more expensive ... but a 90ah CALB cell is going to be better (capactity-wise) than a 90ah TS cell ... but the CALB cells offer a higher acceptable 'C' rate .... but the thundersky's are slightly lighter... ... but the CALB cells are slightly smaller... etc..etc...etc... applicable to all the cells, no?
 
#128 · (Edited)
Regarding charge of LiFePO4 under low temperatures I have some answers. Cells should be charged directly after discharge, meaning that even if you are using them while -25*C as soon you stop just plug them to charge as they have been developed internal heat and got “working temperature”. Another scenario is to isolate them in battery box with cell-plastic isolation, the same that manufacturer use while transporting to you with addition like heating wire for floors or bathrooms that produce enough heat to keep them happy while charging. This is the wire: http://www.warmup.co.uk/

Lowcrowler, have you tried GBS cells? I think you should, they are lighter, more powerful and still performs even after passing declared Ah’s… Hm… plus they look nice, have lower volume and comes with connectors…
Good luck wile charging from Sweden!
 
#129 ·
Lowcrowler, have you tried GBS cells? I think you should, they are lighter, more powerful and still performs even after passing declared Ah’s
Hum! Where do you see that information?
 
#134 ·
Yes, but I wouldn't necessarily rely on comparison of cells that where built in 2009. The Sky Energy (CALB) cells date from August 2009 and the Thunder Sky cells from some point earlier in the year of perhaps even 2008. The cells from both manufacturers seem to have improved over the years.

Rich Rudman over at Manzanita Micro could tell me the same thing based on his older testing. I don't know of any side by side tests involving cells recent cells to see how the newer TS cells (LiFeYPO4) compare to current CALB offerings.

I know that 2010 Yttrium doped 60 amp hour Thunder Sky cells stay over 2.8 volts per cell at 5C discharge rates until pretty close to dead. I use them at up to 7.5 C now but I did a repeated tests at that point before I started cranking up my rates. I really wish someone had test results from nearly new CALB 70 amp hour cells as I could drop them in place of my 60 amp hour TS cells. If the real internal resistance at 5C + rates is 1 milliohm or less, that means over 2.9 vpc at 350 amps, it would be tempting. I don't have any brand loyalty.
 
#136 ·
Lowcrawler; My point is that both CALB and Winston/Sinopoly have much more disadvantages than GBS for example, no matter application, plus GBS performs fully -20*C to +50*C…

Yabert; my job is in the R&D for worlds Nr.2 forklift manufacturer and abusing materials in order to found suitable is a part of everyday job. I can probably write a book about the EV’s and batteries but so much time I do not have right now. I can also say that according to my excessive abuse those batteries that are high listed and most used in this thread have lowest performance ability and stability… please do not ask for more details, and thanks for understanding… :cool:
 
#139 ·
My point is that both CALB and Winston/Sinopoly have much more disadvantages than GBS for example, no matter application, plus GBS performs fully -20*C to +50*C…
You'll have to explain the 'much more disadvantages'. I could say that walking to my neighbors house has 'much more disadvantages' to getting in my car and pulling into their driveway, but saying that doesn't mean anything unless you describe those disadvantages because walking would be easier and quicker.

You'll have to demonstrate 'GBS performs fully -20*C' I'd love to see a 3C chart compared to one at 20c and show the cold temperature cell performing 'fully'. ...not going to happen.
I can also say that according to my excessive abuse those batteries that are high listed and most used in this thread have lowest performance ability and stability… please do not ask for more details, and thanks for understanding… :cool:
You say something and imply an extremely high order to what you are saying, you provide no facts such as voltage sag at a specific current or anything of any real substance to assist someone with making a fact based decision and say 'please do not ask for more details'. All you've done, as far as I'm concerned is say, 'GBS is best manufacturer #1 in all the land, #1 sales, #1 customer happy' just as a Chinese battery manufacturer would without backing anything up. If they were priced similarly or if I found any advantage to them I'd probably think about it but so far their price is far out of reach and to no significant advantage that I can see and none that you've provided.
 
#138 ·
Please explain the advantage of the GBS cells. All the options seem to have the ability to handle continuous 3C discharges. The cells seem to be nearly the same size and weight at the other companies offerings. Even the voltage sag under load doesn't seem any better.

If I was buying right now I would most likely buy CALB cells due to consistent availability, and an extra 10 amps hours as the 70 ah cell is the same size as the older 60 amp hour cells. Each 4 cell block, with end plates added, would measure 10.4 inches by 4.5 inches, by 8 inches tall and weigh 23.5 lb. with end plates and straps (according to the current published information.) That is slightly smaller than a 4 cell block of GBS 60 amp hour cells and just 3.2 lb. heavier for an extra 10 amp hours.
 
#140 ·
I am really sorry, no graphs and no official document just a word of someone who had opportunity to play with many different batteries… and why stock to a word GBS in the sentence. If you are asking me I say No GBS is not the best, nor the Thudersky and certainly not CALB… Sorry, I do not intend to spread advertisement towards some products or manufacturers. I am just pointing in the other direction, towards some other products that are not included in this list. Anyway, before buying next time try something else like GBS or Saft or Zebra and see for yourself…
This is one of the testing toys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whD3574H6Ls
 
#141 ·
Hi elfi,

Kool :cool: Kart. Are you involved with it? What sanctioning organization does the accounting of that world record? Was it zero to 60 mph? or kph? My German ain't so good :(

The cart looked impressive. We've got one set up for circuit racing. Was that guy strictly acceleration, or does he run circuits (like grand prix) also? If there is a legitimate record there for the 0 - 60, I might be inclined to alter a cart and go after it ;)

Regards,

major
 
#145 ·
Only used my 42 180ah calbs 2500 miles or so since last May and all seems fine. I use mine at freeway speeds and like lots of power and although we have all choked forking out the $ for Lithium, I decided to splurge and get enuf batteries to make it a fun car, not just enuf batteries to get me by and use them 80-90% every trip.

But my question is, what viable alternatives to this Lithium do we have?.....none.

francis
 
#146 · (Edited)
I think Jukka Jarvonen on the EVDL said he has some 7 year old conversions going strong, and Dave Kois has claimed 5 year old RAV4 conversions still running. Tesla has had a few Roadsters go past the 100K mile mark, and of course Tom Moloughney took his MiniE over 70K miles.
 
#148 ·
I don't think the poll can be changed once it is set up. I believe it was setup before Sinopoly existed.

In any case, are there people in the USA who have ordered and received Sinopoly batteries? They seem hard to come by over here and several would like to see how they perform. You might consider contacting Jack Rickard of evtv.me and shipping him a few to test out on his show. It would get you some good publicity around the world.
 
#154 ·
Jack Rickard had a sponsorship deal with Winston but I don't think that is still in effect. I don't remember Jack ever testing a Sinopoly cell, and he's stated something to the effect that he's not sure they are available and doesn't know anyone using them. You should try contacting him again. If he tests them and they test well, and he's confident of a reliable supply and a good price, he'd probably recommend them and give you some business. Even if he doesn't sell them directly many of his viewers would be interested in them.
 
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