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  #91  
Old 09-11-2011, 11:07 PM
valerun valerun is offline
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

couple of boxed layout for the 650VDC 15kW PFC stage as promised. Will see how it holds up under full load... There is a dedicated fan blowing through inductors now. Also, the inductors are rated for ~3x the current of the previous ones.
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  #92  
Old 09-16-2011, 11:25 AM
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jackbauer jackbauer is offline
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

Not had much time to play with the charger due to work commitments. The liquid cooled heatsink i bought on ebay did arrive today. As a bonus I got 2 three phase solid state relays! I'm very partial to the liquid cooling due to the space saving and my experiences with the motor controller. Obviously i'll have to drill and tap new mounting holes for the igbt and inductors etc. Don't think it will cause an issue as I can use thread tape on the screws to make them water tight.

The inductors I stripped from an emerson ups are reading at 1mH so I might put two in parallel for higher current. In theory I could stand the heatsink vertical and put parts on both sides.
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Now, Cole, when you shift the gear and that little needle on the ammeter goes into the red and reads 1000 Amps, that's bad.
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  #93  
Old 09-16-2011, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

Like always it's a feast for my eyes, Jack. But how are you going to cool it, with a pump, and a radiator with a fan? Is it really worth the trouble?
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  #94  
Old 09-16-2011, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

Yeh pump , rad , fan setup. I actually think it is worth the effort. My air cooled controller had a tendency to reach thermal limit on a long trip. I see a lot of others with various brands of controller having this issue. The switch to liquid cooling was amazing. Now it barely gets above ambient. This charger generates a lot of heat in small areas. Getting that heat out and away from the parts is critical for running at high power. With the 3 phase on street charge points now springing up I want to able able to charge as quickly as possible to help mitigate the problem of only having a 10kwh pack.
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  #95  
Old 09-16-2011, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

Ah, of course, it's the fast removing of heat to another place. Relocate the problem.
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  #96  
Old 09-16-2011, 01:02 PM
valerun valerun is offline
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

yes, the inductors are the worst here. Really important to (1) get the biggest ones you can find and live with, and (2) make sure the heat from inductors will not find its way to the semiconductors.

All this is *especially* important if you have a PFC stage in the same box - the peak currents are higher in the boost stage and the frequency is way higher (22kHz vs. 10kHz). Both of these drive heat.

Remember that at the level of power we are talking about (10-15kW), even at 95% efficiency per stage we are talking about up to 1.5kW of heat to remove. This is a LOT of heat.

So until we get a bit more creative with stuff like energy-recovery snubbers, etc, we need a way to remove heat relatively quickly. Liquid cooling is pretty good. Especially if you already have liquid cooling setup for the controller.

Thanks,
Valery.
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  #97  
Old 09-16-2011, 03:35 PM
aeroscott aeroscott is offline
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

oil cooling or gas cooling, flooding the inverter box , pumping to a radiator( oil cooled X ray machines ) or by using gas( Helium or Hydrogen ) you can cool the motor to , low windage , great penetration , very high thermal conductivity , no oxidation of parts . Turbo inter coolers are a perfect fit for gas to gas heat exchange . turbo compressor stage with electric motor for moving the gasses . The big utilities use 5-7 psi with Hydrogen for their generator cooling with a water heat exchanger under the generator in the same cabinet .: I understand Hydrogen is 1/2 the weight of helium therefore 2X the thermal conductivity .

Last edited by aeroscott; 09-16-2011 at 03:40 PM. Reason: added:
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  #98  
Old 09-16-2011, 09:47 PM
Anaerin Anaerin is offline
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroscott View Post
oil cooling or gas cooling, flooding the inverter box , pumping to a radiator( oil cooled X ray machines ) or by using gas( Helium or Hydrogen ) you can cool the motor to , low windage , great penetration , very high thermal conductivity , no oxidation of parts . Turbo inter coolers are a perfect fit for gas to gas heat exchange . turbo compressor stage with electric motor for moving the gasses . The big utilities use 5-7 psi with Hydrogen for their generator cooling with a water heat exchanger under the generator in the same cabinet .: I understand Hydrogen is 1/2 the weight of helium therefore 2X the thermal conductivity .
Hydrogen is also highly explosive, especially when you're working with high voltages and possible sparks.

Total Immersion Cooling using Mineral Oil is great. Mineral Oil is completely non-conductive, and it what's typically used by power companies to cool pole-mounted power transformers (Along with some extreme PC overclockers, who build systems in aquariums filled with oil). However, Mineral Oil is heavy, obviously, and can have issues with thermal expansion at 90c+, and gelling at under 5c. Or, if you really want safety and reliability, look into 3M Flourinert.
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  #99  
Old 09-17-2011, 02:31 AM
aeroscott aeroscott is offline
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

how do you get the missing O2 into a pressure vessel that has positive pressure . Utilities have been using it since the 70's without indecent . If you could make all 2 or 3 cubic ft. mix with 20% O2 (air), how bad could a worst case explosion be under 1000 Btu , it wont even burn a newspaper laying on top of battery that I was charging @ 80-100 amps when a loose cable sparked , sounded like a gunshot , blew the top off the battery and acid all around . Its over before a fire can start . No worse then a ice backfire or a airbag , if a blowout diaphragm is installed you will have no containment damage . If the local fire dept. or DOT can't handle the idea of thermal nuclear Hydrogen bomb in your car ,LOL,which every car with a LA battery has ( per mixed stoichiometric [balanced fuel to O2 ratio]) , go with helium , if you can handle the car sounding like a chipmunk . LOL Good points on the oil cooling , no bad effects on the components ? I was concerned about the caps .
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  #100  
Old 09-17-2011, 03:09 AM
aeroscott aeroscott is offline
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Default Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design

Anarin , best small pickup I drove is a Volvo wagon or a Mercedes wagon . 3M does everything well .But not cheap .
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