[One Equals Two]

Originally Posted by wenowhavepower

Something is fishy here but lets see how it plays out!
Lots of new users with the same view, sounds like one person!

Don't mind me ... :-)

Lol, I am just one man (I'd love to be two at times) hence the name "One Equals Two" because there's a lot in this world to do, and I'm just one man, hoping for the power of two.

I'm VERY FAR from Alaska as well, got pics of me and my house to prove it...

Originally Posted by Tesseract

I'm guessing you've never heard of "economies of scale," because if you had you would instead be saying how amazing it is you can get a 300kW motor controller for less than $3000!

Your misconception is a common one, but it's still a misconception.

Of course the market is tiny for these things, but the actual cost to produce one seems a lot less than the prices out there, making it out of reach or not as easily justifiable to purchase, probably creating a much smaller market in itself. So, what I was really getting at was that the market would probably be a lot bigger if the prices were lower. Like when the Model T came out, and soon after, everyday people were driving cars.

Not saying high prices are bad relative to the production cost (people need to make a living!) but as for me, I'd rather spend $1,000-$2,000 on parts and build my own exactly how I want it, and then I have what I want for less, and it's a fun experience.

And to ^^^, which controller are you referring to? I may buy one for $3,000, but everything I've looked at for my power "needs" is in the $6,500-$12,000 range.

[dimitri]

You have fascinating DIY motor project and very positive attitude, it would be very interesting to see what your motor is capable of. However, there is absolutely no way you will get any range from lawn tractor batteries, regrdless of how many books you read.

I have those batteries in my electric push mower conversion and I use one as my 12V aux battery in my EV. In the mower these batteries can deliver 60Amp for 20-30 minutes and then they are done. That's at Florida temp, not Alaska temp.

Regardless of how efficient your motor/controller will be, even if its 100% efficient, there is not enough energy in those batteries to push 1000+ lb car for any reasonable distance. With 40 batteries you will get 10-15 miles range on the flat road at the hottest day Alaska can offer if you are lucky.

Its great that you are challenging motor designers, kudos to you for that, but please don't challenge laws of physics, because you will end up looking like a fool, just like all those posters in the overunity threads.

[etischer]

mechanical power = torque x rpm
electrical power = volts x amps

Power out (mechanical) cannot be more than Power in (electrical).

Cars the size of your Geo Storm would require at least 10kw to do freeway speeds, I don't see how your design would require any less. You can't get 10kw mechanical power out by putting 125 watts electrical power in.

The air gap between your magnets is huge, I would work on getting it down to the gnats ass if you are striving for efficiency. Do you have some sort of encoder for commutation? I applaud your effort, this world needs more people with the "I can do it better" attitude.

[dimitri]

Originally Posted by AlaskaStar

I have looked into the designs of many electric motors, and for the power input versus the torque output for the wattage consumed, I had to stack the efficiencies in my favor.

Let me ask you this:

What if this motor only consumes 125 watts of power to move this 1000 pound car down the road at highway speed?

Would this set a record? Would this motor be now 'more than 100% efficient'?

Just exactly who achieved 100% efficient in anything to enable them to set the 100% mark? If they did achieve 100% to know where to set it, then where is their technology, and why is it not being used?

Aahh....but it's a mere calculation, not yet proven. Darn. Well...here's to building and proving.

You can stack things all day, but power out is always less than power in, if you believe otherwise then we are done, nothing to see here.

Power required to move a car with any given weight is not a calculation, its a well known fact. If motor consumes 125 Watt of electric power, than it will produce less than 125Watt of mechanical power for useful work, i.e. pushing a car. If you think otherwise then I guess physics 101 was not in that library of yours and sir Isaac Newton was a fool.

Average human can pedal about 300 Watt , so by your logic you can put pedals on your car and get to freeway speeds without sweating too much. I think we both know its not possible.

Motor design is irrelevant and I know nothing about it, all I know is that power out is less than power in, always was and always will be.

Still fascinated by your DIY motor though and can't wait to see demo videos.

[ScottRosa]

Originally Posted by AlaskaStar

.......... I am merely showing my electric car build, so that it may be an inspiration to others, and maybe some radical new designs that are super efficient come from it.

And yes I am an optimist to a fault, but I am not afraid of failure, and actually look forward to failed designs so that I may learn from them.

AlaskaStar

Great post. IF it fails, hope you at least inspire and improve the status quo...

[Woodsmith]

Have you calculated how much power is needed to overcome Rolling Resistance and aerodynamic drag for your car at various road speeds?

It will be interesting to compare that with the power developed by your motor when it is up and running. Obviously it will be comparible at a constant velocity so then you can see what the power demand from the batteries is and then work out the overall efficiency of your set up.

[dimitri]

Originally Posted by AlaskaStar

Gee...Who said it was over unity? Most of the energy into a motor is ultimately lost to heat the the Curie Effect on the magnetism which is the biggest problem in motor efficiencies.

So to illustrate your point I will take my EV as example. As I drive 60mph on flat road my motor/controller consumes approx. 200 Amps at 128V which equals 25.6 kWatt of power. Your statement leads us to believe that "most" of this energy is lost due to inefficiency of my Warp9 motor and Soliton1 controller. Can we quantify your definition of "most" ? Most conservative meaning of the word "most" would be 51%, so I will take that for the point of illustration, although I feel you meant more than 51% when you said "most".

So, by your logic I should be seeing at least 13kWatt of heat coming off my motor/controller, right? I'm pretty sure my motor/controller would melt by now since motor only has passive air cooling, yet I can hold my hand on it after driving for an hour. So, what am I missing? Where did the energy go? Into some parallel universe?

Funny you compare 125Watt car motor with 600Watt bike motor. Of course 600Watt is a lot of power for a bike with proper gearing, its twice as much as human can pedal. By your logic you could put that bike motor in a car and drive at freeway speed and still have power to spare since bike motor takes 5 times the power compared to your DIY motor. Or, do you imply that bike motor, which you did not built, so it must have very low efficiency, wastes most of that 600 Watt in heat? Say for the sake of argument it wastes 500 Watt in heat. You ever try to touch 500 Watt incandecent bulb with your bare hand? Your motor should be as hot as that bulb if it was that efficient.

I don't know why I even bother, I know for sure that no one can pursuade you to see faults in your own logic. People with similar ideas come often, but no one yet proved them. At least you seem to go further than others in that you are actually building something pretty cool looking. I applaud you for your efforts and can't wait to see YouTube videos of your test runs. Good luck! Sincerely.....

[etischer]

Originally Posted by AlaskaStar

The air gap is for cooling. The gap is a mere 0.125 inches either side. Accounting for the end play on the input shaft of 0.100 inches, I think that 0.025 inch gap safety margin is acceptable. Don't you?

AlaskaStar

You stated earlier that the magnets you are using have a pull force of 55lbs.
If you separate those magnets by 1/8", what happens to the pull force? The bigger your air gap, the less force you apply. If the gap gets really big, you apply 0 force, but still consume electrical power, meaning efficiency=0


I think your 0.025" safety gap is too small.
- You are already seeing 0.100" of end play.

- Once you get a bit of side load on that plastic ring, I think you will get more than 0.025" of deflection.

- Once you get spinning, I think you will get more than 0.025" of wobble from the spline-spline interface.

You should add some bearings to stiffen things up, reduce that air gap, and this will improve efficiency.

[david85]

Guys, why don't we just let him build the darn thing and see how it works?

I think there are some valid concerns but so what? let him try, he's not hurting any of us by doing so. No need to get so worked up over this.

[etischer]

Originally Posted by david85

Guys, why don't we just let him build the darn thing and see how it works?

I think there are some valid concerns but so what? let him try, he's not hurting any of us by doing so. No need to get so worked up over this.

We all want him to be successful. If we think we can help the guy out, I don't see the harm in offering up some free advice. I'll stand back and observe if that's what AlaskaStar wants. Seeing how he is an Autodidact thirsty for knowledge, I'd think he would be open to ideas from those of us with some hands on experience.