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  #11  
Old 09-26-2011, 02:14 PM
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dimitri dimitri is online now
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

I think Logisystems controller is at least partially responsible for the damage to motor/tranny mounts. Its notorious for lurching at low throttle due to poor design, which is especially evident at low gear like rear gear. Many people come up with kludges to limit throttle when in rear gear to avoid jumping backwards at the touch of a pedal.

So, after you fix up motor/tranny and start testing, be very careful with this controller.
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  #12  
Old 09-26-2011, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

yup i could drive it fine but not the GF.

David that relay energizes on 12V but holds pack voltage across the relay. It is the relay for the DC to DC Converter (144Vdc in) so its not on all the time without the ignition switched. With the precharge resistor in place the dc to dc would groan and whine so I put in the relay 5 minutes after the precharge resistor went on the car.
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  #13  
Old 09-26-2011, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

my 'plan' is to get it up and running with the Logisystems, then do some power tests to see how it feels when running well. From that data, I'll make a decision on what controller to replace it with (higher or lower power). Unless it feels fine, then I'll just keep it.

I read somewhere, not sure where, about someone who added a resistor or something across the pot box only when in reverse, which lowered the power output when in reverse. I'll have to dig that up... That seems like it could be a good fix too.
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

Well, it’s basically all ready to pull out the motor, but I have to wait till the kids have enough free time to do it with me! With soccer, homework and going to a Giants game last night (gotta have priorities, right?) there just has not been time. I’ve pulled the driveshafts and got most of the wiring out of the way, but they are real excited about the actual removal part.

In the meantime, I’m thinking and planning. Cause I have to do something! So, I came up with a list of projects I’d like to do. Some of this is for now, some is for after it’s all back together and running, sort of a phase 2,3 etc. down the road.

1. Redesign the rear motor mount. Currently, the rear mount (CE of the motor) is a beefy strap clamped around the end, then connected to the stock upper motor mount location. I don’t like this setup because a portion of the clamp is actually over the inlet screen, which is not well attached to the motor itself. This appears to be what actually damaged the motor. The clamp to screen was solid, but the clamp and screen rotated together on the motor and damaged the posts and connector when everything broke and rotated. (you can see this in the photo’s on page 1). I see two options here. Either a) modify/remove the screen so the clamp is directly on the motor or b) replace the clamp with a simple CE bolt on plate that connects to the same mounting point. Either way I’ll add a lower torque bar to reduce motor rotation. This will require welding a tab to the frame, once I get the motor back in I’ll have to tow it to a shop to have that done. I’m sure the torque bar itself will be enough to solve the problem.

2. Install a blower for the motor. Maybe not needed, but I like the idea of not only extra cooling, but also the added protection of having the motor inlets covered up and fed by a filtered blower. Seems like it would help keep the motor cleaner and cooler. I’ll incorporate this in my redesign of the rear motor mount.

3. Replace the component shelf with polypropylene. It is currently clear acrylic (at least I assume It’s acrylic) which looks cool, but it is pretty difficult to work with. It’s brittle, and broken already from where the motor hit it. I thought about replacing it with Lexan, but that’s $$! And with all the wiring and components you can’t really see through it anyway, so there’s no real point in it being clear. I’ll just stick with something cheap and easy to work with, but a little more visually appealing than plywood (and quicker since I don’t have to seal and paint it).

3. Move 12 batteries up front. Right now all 48 are in the trunk, 36 in the recessed box and 12 in the trunk behind the rear seats. I’d like to move the 12 out of the trunk and up to the front. To clear out the trunk space and move some weight forward. I have not weighed the corners yet, but the car looks rear heavy. I’ll actually weigh it before doing this to confirm my suspicions that I could use a little more weight up front. The front rack already exists from when the car was lead acid, and the front to rear battery cables are already long enough to reach the front rack, so no major fab work will be needed.

4. Make polypropylene battery boxes front and rear. I’m intrigued by dtbaker’s use of 1/4" polypropylene and a heat welder and want to follow in his footsteps here with some nice looking DIY boxes. Well, maybe not nice looking, but definitely DIY.

5. Band all batteries in groups of 6 with a strapper. The strapping is just for organizational neatness and ease of handling.

6. And the biggie… add air conditioning! The car had it originally and still appears to have the evaporator and all the underhood wiring intact. But everything else was removed. Unfortunately the open fittings were not capped when the expansion valve was removed, so I assume the evaporator will be bad since it’s been open to the elements for a few years. BUT at least it should be replaceable, it’s not like I’m starting from ground zero and building an AC system. There’s plenty of room up front for a condenser, I’ll just have to decide how to handle the compressor. Either pulley off the Warp9, a second motor dedicated to a stock compressor, or a Masterflux style compressor. I lean towards the Masterflux since I don’t have a compressor at all right now, but it’s pretty steep $$ so we’ll see as I get further into that project research. Still a little time for this one, no urgency on getting aircon.

That’s it for now! Looks like we may have a few hours tomorrow after school, we’ll see if we can get that sucker yanked out!
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  #15  
Old 10-02-2011, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

Finally got the motor out!!! It took me a week to find the time to do one hour of work… Told you this isn’t going to be a quick (re)build.

Here’s the obligatory ‘motor hovering over the car’ shot with my helper/hoist operator,



a few more of the motor/trans, and empty car.





Hope to have the motor/trans separated cleaned and inspected in the next few days, then I’ll see what I need to do in order to get it back together.
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2011, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

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Originally Posted by dladd View Post
3. Replace the component shelf with polypropylene. It is currently clear acrylic (at least I assume It’s acrylic) which looks cool, but it is pretty difficult to work with.

4. Make polypropylene battery boxes front and rear. I’m intrigued by dtbaker’s use of 1/4" polypropylene and a heat welder and want to follow in his footsteps here with some nice looking DIY boxes. Well, maybe not nice looking, but definitely DIY.

5. Band all batteries in groups of 6 with a strapper. The strapping is just for organizational neatness and ease of handling.

dude... you're dissing my polypro welding. ?!

actually, its very easy to work with, although it makes a mess of the garage with the chips having significant 'static cling' to everything. The heat-welding is easy... like caulking, but you really need the tip that lets you feed in the rod of material like a TIG welder to do a decent job. The poly gets a little flexy, and needs at least aluminum 'edges' to keep long spans straight.

the strapping thing is separate, but pretty easy way to make 3,4,5 cell blocks more manageable. The 'ends' may be better with plates to prevent bowing, but maybe not. I am not convinced that tight banding is better... if tightly constrained, than an overcharge event (causing by internal overheating) would be even more likely to vent rather than flex a little, so I don't see any real advantage to tight banding...
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Last edited by dtbaker; 10-02-2011 at 09:47 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-03-2011, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

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dude... you're dissing my polypro welding. ?!
No way! I hope my boxes come out as well as yours! thanks for the info on the feeder attachment, I was wondering if that was worth buying with the heat gun.
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  #18  
Old 10-03-2011, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

david,

I cant remember the weather where you are at. The reason I had them all in the trunk is to keep them the same temp. I worried about having some up front in 20F weather and some in the trunk at 40F perhaps for no reason. Also its easier to get them above 32F in the trunk for charging (spec sheet says cant charge below freezing.) but yes its bottom heavy.
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  #19  
Old 10-03-2011, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

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Originally Posted by dladd View Post
No way! I hope my boxes come out as well as yours! thanks for the info on the feeder attachment, I was wondering if that was worth buying with the heat gun.

The rod/feeder nozzle thing is key to directing the heat right to a small area and getting the filler rod pressed in there as you go.

regarding same temps of batteries in separate locations.... thats part of why I wanted to have both front and rear boxes of similar construction and totally enclosed in the winter. because my original build was lead, the boxes are deep enough to put rigid foam in the bottoms, but I decided to leave the side un-insulated and may just put a layer of mylar space blanket in there as it doesn't get very cold where I live and my car is in a 50 degree garage overnight...
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  #20  
Old 10-03-2011, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: 1995 Saturn SL2 re-build thread

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Originally Posted by dexion View Post
david,

I cant remember the weather where you are at. The reason I had them all in the trunk is to keep them the same temp. I worried about having some up front in 20F weather and some in the trunk at 40F perhaps for no reason. Also its easier to get them above 32F in the trunk for charging (spec sheet says cant charge below freezing.) but yes its bottom heavy.
Yeah, in the dead of winter we never go below freezing. There will be some temp difference, but I don't think it's too bad. Most of the year is between 50-80 degrees during the day.
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