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  #1  
Old 12-14-2008, 11:25 PM
WCRiot WCRiot is offline
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Default BladeZ XTR lite 250 scooter- Upgrade

I just picked up my BladeZ XTR lite 250 scooter from some guy on craigslist for $5. He thought the batteries were shot but I think I have sprung some new life into them. I honestly haven't tried to see how far I can go because the motor seems to be pretty weak (possibly the batteries) but I do weigh 200lbs and this was a kids scooter.

Anyways I'm sorry I didn't take pictures before I started to screw with it but I haven't even owned the cooter 24hrs and I already tricked it out. The pictures are crappy but its all i could do tonight.







If you can't tell by now what I have upgraded I might cry. I replaced the wooden foot board with a carbon fiber nomex panel. For those interested It is 2plies 6k 2x2 twill carbon fiber on both sides with 1/8th nomex in between. I don't remember what we tested this to but I know for sure it carries 661lbs on compressive force.

Here's whats next to become carbon fiber



These side plates will look sweet when they are made of 100% carbon fiber. It will also help reduce the weight of this pig of a scooter. I am planning on changing every steel peice that i physically can change within 1 months time. Then I will probably too busy getting ready for racing season to mess with this thing. Ill post updates as I change things.

I need to decide on batteries, charger and if I want to change the motor and controller. I don't want to spend a whole lot of money on this scooter for now. I kind of just want to enjoy it as is. But, I do need to make sure the batteries will last 1/2 mile at the least.
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2008, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: BladeZ XTR lite 250 scooter- Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRiot View Post
I just picked up my BladeZ XTR lite 250 scooter from some guy on craigslist for $5. He thought the batteries were shot but I think I have sprung some new life into them. I honestly haven't tried to see how far I can go because the motor seems to be pretty weak (possibly the batteries) but I do weigh 200lbs and this was a kids scooter.
Probably the biggest contributors are the electrical system and the batteries themselves. If the batts are weak, then you will not realize maximum capability. However, at 250w, you have just under 1/3 HP max power, and most of that is in the starting torque, it probably rolls off very fast as the RPM comes up.

[quote[Anyways I'm sorry I didn't take pictures before I started to screw with it but I haven't even owned the cooter 24hrs and I already tricked it out. The pictures are crappy but its all i could do tonight.[/quote]

No problem. If anyone needs to see, they can do a google images search and find stock photos.

Quote:
If you can't tell by now what I have upgraded I might cry. I replaced the wooden foot board with a carbon fiber nomex panel. For those interested It is 2plies 6k 2x2 twill carbon fiber on both sides with 1/8th nomex in between. I don't remember what we tested this to but I know for sure it carries 661lbs on compressive force.
Looks good, and I bet you saved some weight with it too!

Quote:
Here's whats next to become carbon fiber(snip)
These side plates will look sweet when they are made of 100% carbon fiber. It will also help reduce the weight of this pig of a scooter. I am planning on changing every steel peice that i physically can change within 1 months time. Then I will probably too busy getting ready for racing season to mess with this thing. Ill post updates as I change things.
Should be fine, though I do worry that even with bracing points at the axle and the lower steering mount, it may still need extra bracing between the tire and steering joint. Even still, should drop a pound or two there and every bit counts.

Quote:
I need to decide on batteries, charger and if I want to change the motor and controller. I don't want to spend a whole lot of money on this scooter for now. I kind of just want to enjoy it as is. But, I do need to make sure the batteries will last 1/2 mile at the least.
The problem with the Lite 250 is that it has very very little room for batteries, so upgrading will take some hi-tech chemistry or some creative fabrication. I don't think you're going to fit those 4Ah batteries you mentioned in the other thread, because they need to be upright, as they don't appear to be AGM or Gel types. Even if they're sealed, if they have liquid electrolyte they will need to mount upright or you will have some portion of your plates exposed to air which will diminish their effectiveness.

As for charger, search google for "smart chargers" or "3 stage chargers" for the voltage and amperage you need. Follow the battery manufacturer's suggested charging profile. This is one reason I really like Power-Sonic for small applications, because they provide full spec sheets for all their batteries.

With 5 Ah stock replacements, you can probably expect to see about 4-5 miles range from this scooter at best, depending on how heavy the rider is, how fast you're trying to go, how quick you want to get to that speed, and how steep any hills are that you need to climb (even when it looks flat, you could be climbing enough of a grade to place a significant load on the system).

Depending on the measurements, you might be able to use the same batteries I did, which are 6 Ah high-discharge units from Power-Sonic. You'll have to tinker and see. It may be possible to fit a lot more energy in there. If you can get me the dimensions for the battery box, I have a software that will tell us how many bricks of X by Y by Z dimension we can fit in there. That's how I settled on 6 each of the batteries I use.

Also, take that shroud off the motor... it's tiny, but the shroud makes it look like it's huge. You can't get much torque out of a "lever" as small as the armature in that motor.
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2009, 08:32 PM
WCRiot WCRiot is offline
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Default Re: BladeZ XTR lite 250 scooter- Upgrade

Here is the size of the current battery box.
It is closer to 2.0in Deep.

Click to Enlarge

What do you think my options are? Even if I have to go Lithium. The life of these batteries is terrible. I can barely go a quarter mile. And with a few light grades that range is even worse.
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Old 02-11-2009, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: BladeZ XTR lite 250 scooter- Upgrade

WC,

Didn't have much time to play with the numbers, and really all I have handy are dimensions for PowerSonic batteries.

The biggest limiting dimensions here are the 2.25" and 4.00" sides. Most batteries we'd be looking at have one or more dimensions that exceed those limits.

The best I could do in a powersonic was their PSH-655FR which is a high discharge rate 6v 5.5Ah, and you could fit 2 with not enough free space left over for another.

Or, if you could safely build NiMH packs with a safe way to charge the pack, you could cram 162 AA's in there. At nominal volts (1.2v) and maximum capacity (2900 mAh) that represents ~560 Wh. You could build that as 160 batteries in 4 parallel packs for a nominal volts of 48v, and considering parallel, that'd be 11.6 Ah. If you needed 36v, you could do that with 150 cells broken into 5 parallel packs, that'd be 36v nominal at 14.5 Ah. If you needed 24v, that could be done with 162 cells broken into 8 parallel packs for 24v nominal at 23.2 Ah.

But... NiMH are pricey, and getting the juice from those batts would be problematic, and I don't know if there'd be room enough in there for enough diodes, or how the packs would react if one or more went south during discharge (because the discharge rate of the others would increase for the same demand).

If you can get LiFePO4 at your desired volts and capacity in the proper dimensions, with a charger and regulation system, that'd certainly be your best bet.

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Last edited by TX_Dj; 02-11-2009 at 02:35 PM. Reason: added diagram
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  #5  
Old 02-11-2009, 05:45 PM
WCRiot WCRiot is offline
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Default Re: BladeZ XTR lite 250 scooter- Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by TX_Dj View Post
WC,

Didn't have much time to play with the numbers, and really all I have handy are dimensions for PowerSonic batteries.

The biggest limiting dimensions here are the 2.25" and 4.00" sides. Most batteries we'd be looking at have one or more dimensions that exceed those limits.

The best I could do in a powersonic was their PSH-655FR which is a high discharge rate 6v 5.5Ah, and you could fit 2 with not enough free space left over for another.

Or, if you could safely build NiMH packs with a safe way to charge the pack, you could cram 162 AA's in there. At nominal volts (1.2v) and maximum capacity (2900 mAh) that represents ~560 Wh. You could build that as 160 batteries in 4 parallel packs for a nominal volts of 48v, and considering parallel, that'd be 11.6 Ah. If you needed 36v, you could do that with 150 cells broken into 5 parallel packs, that'd be 36v nominal at 14.5 Ah. If you needed 24v, that could be done with 162 cells broken into 8 parallel packs for 24v nominal at 23.2 Ah.

But... NiMH are pricey, and getting the juice from those batts would be problematic, and I don't know if there'd be room enough in there for enough diodes, or how the packs would react if one or more went south during discharge (because the discharge rate of the others would increase for the same demand).

If you can get LiFePO4 at your desired volts and capacity in the proper dimensions, with a charger and regulation system, that'd certainly be your best bet.

Where can I find some LiFePO4?
What about a lithium Ion?
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