[MitchJi]

Originally Posted by david85

I am also not sure about thundersky's batteries. I know early ones were unreliable, but are they still having problems? I wasn't able to find much info from recent conversions, possibly because no one wants to risk it. Did read one the odd case of a satisfied customer, but not much to draw a conclusion. Do you have any recent reports?

Hi,

Given that batteries are very expensive and problems could take years to develop before I purchase a large battery pack two criteria need to be met:
1. The batteries the company sells need to have a very good track record. A few good reports or a brief period with no complaints is not sufficient in my opinion to purchase an expensive battery pack.

2. I have to believe if there is a problem with quality the company will make it right. Thundersky has done nothing AFAIK to pass this test.

In other words, in my opinion, at this time Thundersky fails both tests.

Mitch

[dataman19]

david85,
Where are you at in your EV car project???...
I am doing the same and have come to the conclusion that operating an EV conversion shop will provide the background and funding to develop an EV Car/Truck Line.
..
My business model involves bulk purchasing to get wholesale (and the resultant retail) pricing down significantly. This will provide for a more economical conversion cost.
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The experience with the many different customer cars and the conversion results will provide a wide range of performance data to make realistic decisions.
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I also understand that the UAW and GM are receptive to accepting reasonable offers for their Saturn facility in Spring Hill, TN. Why Saturn? Why not?
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Saturn is a stand alone facility. they make everything! They have the Plastics Presses to Die cast the entire body panels. Think about this.....
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Die Cast Body panels are super light weight, they are strong, durable and nearly dentless. Smack one with a hammer and the hammer bounces back.
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Saturn has its own testing facility and track. No explanation of benefits should be necessary.
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Saturn have their own production models that are ready for EV.
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Saturn is a US car Maker that is dictated to be liquidated, Why, because Congress said so>>>>>
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The Auto Maker bailout directs that the auto makers give away the market, close factories, close dealerships and put people out of work - as opposed to the wall street bailout that provided for multi-million dollar bonuses to the execs who caused the problem, or the Bank Bills that provided the financial incentive to foreclose on mortgages and put people out of their homes. But I digress...
...
Maybe we should all kick in about $1K and buy the Saturn plant. Then we could actually produce an electric EV and sell them.
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Just food for thought
..
dataman19

[david85]

Didn't realize anyone was still reading this thread. You have to remember this is the second thread I ever started after signing up. I agree that detriot and most of the workers there are not helping us very much.

I also agree that starting with a conversion is a good beginning. I've learned a lot so far and would like to push it as far as I can. Range is still the thing that I haven't been able to prove. May not be able to make the range tests this year but my saturn conversion is moving under its own power now. Check the link in my signature for all the details.

[david85]

Chiba, Japan? wow, this is a global forum!

The nanosafe batteries are similar in energy density to NiMh, according to altair's claims. This page shows the performance graph: http://www.altairnano.com/markets_amps.html

You are correct that phoenix motor cars is using these batteries, and more recently, these guys in the UK have jumped in too. http://www.lightningcarcompany.com/

The lightning car has the potential to set a new standard in every way imaginable, by using PML's wheelmotor (Hi-Pa drive) powertrain, the car will possibly have the best overall performance in terms of traction as well as accelleration and braking.

And then there's the eliica supercar, I'm betting you have heard of it.......(don't think they are using the nanosafe battery, but it is still direct drive with lithium batteries)

But as far as altairnano's batteries go, I can't find much in the way of pricing or even projected long term cost. The best estimates I have seen so far are purely speculative and assumes that the technology will be heavily subsidized. The cost for the battery pack per truck is thought to be somewhere between $40k and $80k USD. Its not out of line if the cost can be driven down, this is still a very new battery after all.

EDIT: PS, I don't even know if they will sell them to end customers.

[david85]

If you don't mind my asking, where are you getting your hub motors? I have had a helluva time trying to contact potential suppliers of suitable motors, PML Flightlink was so far the only one that took us seriously, but the cost was just too high for this application(~90K USD).

[david85]

PML has revealed agreements with lightning and volvo after we contacted them, so it doesn't suprise me that they are less open now, I doubt I would get a reply again. BluWav is annother company that has a good product (USA), although they use an integrated planetary to step up the motor torque. Its a nice little package, and includes a disc brake, and the back of the motor is already designed to accomodate ball joints, so it would be easy to mount on just about any car, but they too don't seem interested in answering inquiries. But if your just still looking, you might find this usefull.

http://www.wavecrestlabs.com/products-motors.php

Even here in canada there is a wheel motor company (TM4), but they were almost annoyed with me for inquiring.

Its getting to the point that I will either have to consider goint to a central motor (like the tesla), or designing my own wheel motor. I don't quite understand what the big deal is, its not like hub motors are a new idea.

Asside from the shape, liquid cooling seems to be the key to getting large amounts of torque out of a relatively small package (along with different internals to favor lower RPMs).

[david85]

Originally Posted by Lexus

Interesting Read on there Motors

Features, Functions and Benefits : (Four motors on a 3,000 lb vehicle)
Acceleration performance: 0-60 mph in 5.0 sec
Grade-ability performance: 45% at 45 mph
Top Speed performance: 75 mph
Integrated hub and wheel bearing design
Modular design to suit a variety of applications
Low operating costs and cost of ownership
Modular for various braking solutions
Accessible gear box and wheel bearings for ease of maintenance
Improved stopping performance via regenerative braking and intelligent controls
Can be air or liquid cooled
Extremely quiet operation
Zero emissions



OH I contacted TM4 when I first started looking for in wheel motors .. got told they are NOT interested in helping anyone building a one off!

Haha, yeah thats pretty much what they told me when I contacted them, and they got sturn when I tried to explain that this was not going to be a one off, and then they sent us PML's web address oh well.....(google wheel motor and TM4 are usually first on the list)

But about the bluwav motor, while the max output is lower than say the Hi-pa drive (45kw vs 120), the gradability is MUCH better than any hub motor configuration that I have seen thus far. PML quoted us on a motor that was only rated for 14% grade. I wonder if it might even be possible to build a off road rock crawler with bluwav's design with so much torque available.

I have a feeling that the eliica may have a similar vulnerability. I observed a drag race between it and a gasser (long live Utube!), and the gasser had the edge off the line since it apearded to have more torque available at the wheels. But ran out of HP further down the track and was overtaken by the EV.

BluWav's claim of low cost is what makes me hopefull that I may still get though to them later on, soposedly they are in the midst of some sort of restructuring, so who knows what is going on right now.

[david85]

If you use a brushed DC motor in a 10:1 fixed gear ratio, then you might run out of RPM. A 3 ph AC motor however, will run at 9000 all day without any of the problems of brush arcing. I remember reading that the solectria "tranny" is available with a fixed ratio of as little as 5:1, which could work better for a brushed DC motor.

If you don't end up with enough accelleration, you could always put one motor at each end of the car.

As a footnote, I am almost positive that this is the powertrain that ZENN and Dynasty are using in their NEVs.