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  #21  
Old 11-10-2010, 03:46 PM
jeremyjs jeremyjs is offline
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

The only big problem with the Volt as far as I'm concerned is the cost. That thing would give anyone sticker shock. They could damn near make and sell a 200 mile EV for that, based on what the leaf costs.
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  #22  
Old 11-10-2010, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyjs View Post
The only big problem with the Volt as far as I'm concerned is the cost. That thing would give anyone sticker shock. They could damn near make and sell a 200 mile EV for that, based on what the leaf costs.
Agreed, if you look at how much some of us will eventually spend on our evs, even if we bought a newer car we would not have spent 40 thousand dollars.
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  #23  
Old 12-24-2010, 05:39 PM
Kyran64 Kyran64 is offline
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

<rant>
Personally...I've been unimpressed with ANY of the vehicles that have been put into production thus far. ..I'm a tough crowd, I realize. I have unreasonably high expectations and requirements, I realize...none of which have been met by anyone so far and with no justifiable excuse (i feel) for the failure. From what little I do know thus far, however...the Volt might actually be a closer step to the right idea.

Before anyone starts to flame me, I'd like to specify that almost everythign I say is intended as a generality and NOT meant to be an all-inclusive statement...just food for thought.

Mm....food.......Here's food for thought that nobody has discussed in this thread yet:
Back before hybrids were even commonly produced, back when they were 'mostly' theoretical constructs, one of the MAIN proposed reasons for designing or driving a hybrid was NOT increased fuel efficiency (though that's certainly a useful by-product). The main idea I kept stumbling across in essays and discussions of "what if" was to clean up the air in congested areas and dirty cities. A driver could commute in on the roads and kill their ICE as they approached town. Drive around all day on a battery charge, and commute home with the ICE as needed. Not a zero emissions vehicle, to be sure. But it IS for all intents and purposes a zero emissions vehicle "in town"...where it arguably matters the most. Fuel efficiency and emissions aren't the only things to keep in mind. Hybrids open up the world of "emissions distribution"...or, at least, SHOULD...and have thus far FAILED to even explore that.

There are a great, great many reasons to shoot down the Volt, the complexity of design, the cost, the marketting, the lack of being a true EV...

Sure, we all have our own priorities and pet peeves and stringent criteria that aren't being met...but let's face it. Industry sucks. People are building more efficient (not necessarily better quality, but MORE EFFICIENT) constructs in their garages. Every production vehicle that pushes a slightly different idea, regardless of it's downsides, is arguably a move in the right direction. You don't like the Volt, don't buy it (I don't plan to either). Even isn't the grail that we're looking for...heck, even if it's an ultimate failure, it's still an improvement in an as of yet mostly ignored arena.

Then..of course...there are the arguments that if we started seeing too many EVs on the road at one time, the power grid would have issues keeping up, especially during peak hours...blah, blah blah...I'm screaming right alongside everyone who thinks we should already be running marathons, but people have been dumb, which has allowed industry to keep being dumb...babysteps, while ungratifying...are at least being taken
</rant>
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  #24  
Old 12-24-2010, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

I see the Volt as an expensive complicated "solution" to a problem that doesn't really exist: Range Anxiety. Most households have more than one vehicle, and most people drive less than 40 miles a day, so a 100 mile or so EV could go a long way to replacing a large part of our vehicle fleet. Even the most aggressive possible adoption of EV's would take many years to roll out and by that time longer range EV's will be possible and the fast charging infrastructure will be more widespread.
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  #25  
Old 12-24-2010, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

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Originally Posted by JRP3 View Post
I see the Volt as an expensive complicated "solution" to a problem that doesn't really exist: Range Anxiety. Most households have more than one vehicle, and most people drive less than 40 miles a day, so a 100 mile or so EV could go a long way to replacing a large part of our vehicle fleet. Even the most aggressive possible adoption of EV's would take many years to roll out and by that time longer range EV's will be possible and the fast charging infrastructure will be more widespread.
I agree completely. That is the main reason I don't like EVs. I couldn't have stated it better myself.
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  #26  
Old 12-25-2010, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

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Originally Posted by JRP3 View Post
I see the Volt as an expensive complicated "solution" to a problem that doesn't really exist: Range Anxiety.
+1
Same with the Opportunity Charging station concepts.
they wont be necessary, big waste of design money right now.

Still say the Volt was designed to fail to make EV's look unfeasable or undoable or unaffordable
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  #27  
Old 12-25-2010, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

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Originally Posted by RIPPERTON View Post
+1
Same with the opportunity charging station concepts.
they wont be necessary, big waste of design money right now.

Still say the Volt was designed to fail to make EV's look unfeasable or undoable or unaffordable
I think you are right, but this time it isn't only GM with the EV1. This time there are plenty of cars out there to prove them wrong. Tesla is coming out with a model S that will cost about 50 thousand dollars, looks like an Austin Martin and has a 300 mile range while running 0 to 60 in 5 seconds or so.
GM could really be screwing themselves with this tactic. They always did have a tendency to be late to the game.
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  #28  
Old 12-25-2010, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

...nevermind

Last edited by toddshotrods; 12-25-2010 at 06:31 PM. Reason: changed my mind about getting involved in another debate...
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  #29  
Old 12-25-2010, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

I don't agree....completely......I think electrics are being sold wrong. People need to be made aware of how long an EV will last because of its inherent simplicity. Only one moving part. Also, if more people where educated on how many people actually do drive more than 100 miles a day, added to the fact that you start out every day with what basically amounts to a full tank of gas, more people wouldn't get range anxiety.

I think that once electrics proliferate the market, and people see that they don't need a range of more than 100 miles in a day, the range anxiety will vanish. Part of the selling point of EVs should be that they are simplistic of design and as such will have a usable life span several times that of a traditional automobile.

As far as what people want to drive, hey its a free country, if you want to spend the money for the gasoline in an Escalade go for it. I for one will choose to save my money and instead pay a fractional amount for electricity than I do for gasoline.
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  #30  
Old 12-25-2010, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: the Chevy Volt is fine by me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lattimer View Post
I think that once electrics proliferate the market, and people see that they don't need a range of more than 100 miles in a day, the range anxiety will vanish.
There's a difference between not going more than 100 miles in a day...and not being ABLE to go more than 100 miles. As a nation, our public transportation and infrastructure getting into/out of most cities is pathetic if it exists at all. So, as a manufacturer designing an moderate to exensive vehicle that can't GO anywhere.... you find yourself looking at millions of middle/upper-middle class drivers who are metropolitan commuters living 40-50 miles out and are now virtually inelliglbe to use your product.

To expect someone to willing drop $20k to 40k+ into something that strands them within a 100mile radius is asking a bit much, I think. ...which means we're assuming it's a second vehicle..which for many households is advantagous, expected, and the norm. For single non-property owners such as myself (as an example), a second vehicle is financially and logistically ridiculus unless it's a tiny commuter vehicle intended to get me into/out of/around town which costs less than $4-5k and is thus virutally disposable because it'll most likely retain most of its value and can be hawked off when it's time to move on.

I have severe problems with an expensive vehicle that prevents me from driving to any city other than the one I reside in. If we had any other way to get around I'd be all for it. ....but we don't. Short of the bus, getting groped at the airport, or in (limited places) trains betwen cities...we just don't have ANY options...and I'm not renting a car with a longer range every time I want to get out of town.

Ihile I don't disagree that the idea of "range anxiety" is one that can be mitigated through social education and awareness (though I suspect 'somewhat' mitigated would be the best you could hope for)...I also think that RA is currently a very real issue that manufacturers have to contend with. ...and I just can't see any large manufacturer pushing a product that by it's very design excludes such vast groups of people who want to spend money.

Active EV enthusiasts, unforutnately, make up a much, much tinier piece of the marketing pie than everyone else who drives.
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