[mattW]

If you would like to debate the various tenants of Climate Change, here is the only place to do so. If you are easily offended then you should probably avoid this thread but we urge all members to civil and respectful. DIY Electric car doesn't have an official stance on this issue but please limit discussion to this thread only so that we can all get on with the job of building EVs. Both sides of the debate are here to build electric cars, so don't forget what unites us here.

[david85]

I guess the first think We could do is pin down what exactly we mean by debating "climate change" or "global warming".

For me the definition of the debate is really about anthropological climate change. This implies that we are somehow responsible for changes in climate by way of CO2 emissions (and other so called "green house gasses", like methane, etc).

This theory can then be contrasted against recorded data over the last few decades, since the theory of anthropological climate change has been around long enough to be able to start testing it.

Any objections or thoughts?

[david85]

To kick things off, I found a rare public debate on the issue between two well known scientists on opposing sides of the issue.

http://www.johnlocke.org/lockerroom/....html?id=18946

1 hour and 15 minutes.

[the Brutus]

Hi, don't wish to be a smart arse but the word you're looking for is
"anthropogenic"-caused by man.

"Anthropological" climate change could be research into the culture and habits of climate change committees. It could be fun: "these fascinating creatures...spend most of their time speaking in a strange dialect...while wearing polyester suits...and consuming astonishing amounts of Free Trade coffee..." (in the voice of David Attenbourough)

Let it roll!

Brett

[sunworksco]

The same misinformed people that want to dispute the fact that Earth is much older than the Bible is debating the scientific fact that points to human industrialization causing global warming.The science is indisputable unless you are a hired scientific gun hired by the dirty energy providers.The core samples taken from earth's icecaps proofs without a doubt that their recorded history of carbon storage shows a graphical event of our human carbon footprint since man started burning fuel.People here on this blog might as well say the Earth is flat if they are disputing human contributed global warming.What boggles the mind is why someone building a EV would have opposition to the real data of global warming science! I don't think Rush L. is behind the Tesla!

[david85]

Welcome back, sunworksco.

Just so you know, we are not discussing the bible, creationism, or the earth being flat.

Did you watch the video from start to finish? Can you be a little more specific in your concerns of the info?

[Jason Lattimer]

Can anybody explain why the EPA suppressed a document showing global temps going down over the last 5 years? It also shows it will continue to fall for the next 11.

People are starting to ignore the green stuff because they are tired of hearing that they sky will fall. That is why global warming has been changed to climate change.

[PhantomPholly]

As I have frequently said, I am in favor of doing what we can reasonably do to clean up the environment. That said, the CO2=Global Warming theory is not tracking well in light of recent cooling despite great increases in CO2 in the atmosphere.

Irrespective of the potential or non-potential for disaster, I am fully convinced that the POLITICAL actions behind the Global Warming fear-mongering are nothing but another excuse to through slave-taxes on us. This part is really not debatable, since the actions seeking carbon taxes intend in no way to "repair" damage done nor to "prevent" future damage - they only seek to make it burdensome to live a decent life. In this light the politicians pose a much greater threat to humanity than does pollution.

[Jason Lattimer]

I agree, If they pass this cap and trade bill, it will only make things worse. It will force more jobs overseas to countries that are smart enough to not have passed a carbon tax.

As John Wayland said," I don't think you should tell people they are bad, I think you should show people there is a better way."

[Jeff from KY]

Can anybody explain why the EPA suppressed a document showing global temps going down over the last 5 years? It also shows it will continue to fall for the next 11.

1. According to testimony before Congress yesterday (7/7/09)

Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lisa Jackson said the study's chief author had been given numerous opportunities to voice his opinions and some of his arguments were included in the "endangerment" proposal. "The facts do not justify the belief...and they are anything but suppression," Jackson told the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee. Jackson said...that Carlin had been allowed to air his views within the agency and that some of the points in his comments were addressed in the technical support document attached to the endangerment proposal. Furthermore, once Jackson said she discovered Carlin felt his comments were being ignored, her staff allowed him to release his comments publicly.

2. Climate change sceptics frequently argue that climate models and forecasting techniques cannot accurately predicate climate temperature increases. So how are the report's authors able to predict 11 more years of cooling?

global temps going down over the last 5 years

the CO2=Global Warming theory is not tracking well in light of recent cooling despite great increases in CO2 in the atmosphere.

Their recorded data also shows the cooling trend for the last 10 years that I mentioned earlier.

Climate change sceptics have been touting this cooling trend all over the Internet. Can you provide links to actual data sets that show this 5 or 10 year cooling trend?

The following data and analysis is all from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration National Climatic Data Center.

1. Here is a time series analysis for the period 1880-2007 showing variation from the 20th century (1901-2000) mean global temperature


The final data point on the graph is 2007 which was 0.73°C above the 20th century mean.

Here's a different look at the same data: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate...ror-bar-pg.gif

2. According to the NCDC, "...seven of the eight warmest years on record have occurred since 2001 and the 10 warmest years have all occurred since 1995." Also "Global surface temperatures have increased about 0.74°C (plus or minus 0.18°C) since the late-19th century, and the linear trend for the past 50 years of 0.13°C (plus or minus 0.03°C) per decade is nearly twice that for the past 100 years."

How about other effects of climate change?

Sea level rise due to thermal expansion

Decline in Arctic sea ice (September extent)

Decreases in glacier and ice cap mass balances

This is just a little bit of the data that CONFIRMS global climate change.