[paker]

Originally Posted by JRP3

Well the problem is that the deniers are trying to claim that making an effort to reduce GW gases will somehow destroy the economy, or something. What it probably really means is they might not be able to continue driving to the coffee shop in a 3/4 ton truck for a mocha latte.
American society has grown to have an obnoxious amount of waste in it, but people think these things are "necessities".

And the problem with "believers" is that they follow blindly.

Now let us look at the Arctic melting:

From MSNBC

Volcanoes erupting beneath Arctic ice
Fri., June 27, 2008
Seafloor unexpectedly active, but scientists see no connection to ice loss

Uhhh... ok

"Hidden 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) beneath the Arctic surface, the volcanoes can range up to more than a mile (2 kilometers) in diameter and a few hundred yards (meters) tall. They formed along the Gakkel Ridge, a lengthy crack in the ocean crust where two rocky plates are spreading apart, pulling new melted rock to the surface."

"Until now, scientists thought undersea volcanoes only dribbled lava from cracks in the seafloor. The extreme pressure from the overlying water makes it difficult for gas and magma to blast outward."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25419241/

Why didn't Al Gore or the climate scientists tell the public about this?

Technically it is "global warming". Why would Al mention that this has been known for about a decade when he's invested in green technologies, and as long as Al keeps scaring the hell out of the general public about "global warming" they'll spend lots of their money to be green, save the earth and make Al even richer.

As for the scientists what's better and more secure than a government backed job? Just ask Al!

It's a SHAM, A HOAX, A FRAUD

One last thing. If you let someone lead you like a lamb to slaughter you already have the wool pulled over your eyes.

[paker]

Originally Posted by JRP3

At least you're consistent. This is a total joke, the lawsuit was never filed, and those 30,000 "scientists" included "Perry Mason" and "Michael J. Fox". Anyone can sign that petition without providing any proof. Coleman is an idiot looking for publicity.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsour...1&slug=2748308

Where's John Coleman's name in the article? Not a word about the law suite.
I don't see the connection.

[karlos]

Originally Posted by paker

And the problem with "believers" is that they follow blindly.

Now let us look at the Arctic melting:

From MSNBC

Volcanoes erupting beneath Arctic ice
Fri., June 27, 2008
Seafloor unexpectedly active, but scientists see no connection to ice loss

Uhhh... ok

"Hidden 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) beneath the Arctic surface, the volcanoes can range up to more than a mile (2 kilometers) in diameter and a few hundred yards (meters) tall. They formed along the Gakkel Ridge, a lengthy crack in the ocean crust where two rocky plates are spreading apart, pulling new melted rock to the surface."

"Until now, scientists thought undersea volcanoes only dribbled lava from cracks in the seafloor. The extreme pressure from the overlying water makes it difficult for gas and magma to blast outward."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25419241/

Why didn't Al Gore or the climate scientists tell the public about this?

Technically it is "global warming". Why would Al not mention that this has been known for about a decade when he's invested in green technologies, and as long as Al keeps scaring the hell out of the general public about "global warming" they'll spend lots of their money to be green, save the earth and make Al even richer.

As for the scientists what's better and more secure than a government backed job? Just ask Al!

It's a SHAM, A HOAX, A FRAUD

One last thing. If you let someone lead you like a lamb to slaughter you already have the wool pulled over your eyes.

Once again Paker you clearly have an agenda and fail to grasp the big picture relating to GW science. Even should your volcanic activity have an effect you fail to address the postings that show all over the globe including the Antarctic, that ice is melting at an accelerated rate.
There will be effects of GW that have not yet been significantly addressed such as if you reduce the thickness of ice at the poles, it is not unlikely you will get movement in the tectonic plates which will all know are in a very sensitive balance.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25419299...s-environment/

Record ice melt
Preliminary February and March data from a NASA satellite shows that the circle of ice surrounding the North Pole is “considerably thinner” than scientists have seen during the five years the satellite has been taking pictures, NASA ice scientist Jay Zwally said Friday. He thinks there is slightly less than a 50-50 chance the North Pole will be ice-free.Last year was a record year for ice melt all over the Arctic and the ice band surrounding the North Pole is even thinner now.

[Jason Lattimer]

Even if GW is real, why should we be worried about it?

So what if the sea levels will rise a few feet in the next hundred years. Your telling me a hundred years notice isn't enough time to allow people to move the hell out of the way?!

The Copenhagen Consensus Center 2008 ranked "mitigating CO2 emissions to curb global warming" at number 30 on their list of 30 solutions to the worlds 10 worst problems.

The best thing we can do is help people out of poverty and hunger so they can better handle it when and if it becomes a problem.

Besides, when was the last time the weatherman correctly predicted the weather?

[karlos]

Originally Posted by Jason Lattimer

Even if GW is real, why should we be worried about it?

So what if the sea levels will rise a few feet in the next hundred years. Your telling me a hundred years notice isn't enough time to allow people to move the hell out of the way?!

The Copenhagen Consensus Center 2008 ranked "mitigating CO2 emissions to curb global warming" at number 30 on their list of 30 solutions to the worlds 10 worst problems.

The best thing we can do is help people out of poverty and hunger so they can better handle it when and if it becomes a problem.

Besides, when was the last time the weatherman correctly predicted the weather?

Lattimer, you know the biggest problem with sea level rise is, to some degree the polluters are not the ones who will lose their lands they have occupied for countless generations. Imagine, just for a moment, the whole of the USA will be flooded. There was enough angst when just a small part was flooded recently and people did not even like receiving refugees even from their own country.
Thing is, if you have been following this thread, MOST people want the use of fossil fuels greatly reduced as there are many other serious pollution factors already going on like ocean acidification.
Believe me, if you leave it till the time when you need to open your doors to GW refugees, there will not be enough food or space and you won't get much from the oceans which have already been decimated. Chances are, Paker will have to move in with you because much of his home Florida will get flooded too
Surely it's cheaper to do something now than later or would you rather the children of the future pay the price? Answer this one, to me it is probably the most important point.

[PhantomPholly]

Originally Posted by Jason Lattimer

Even if GW is real, why should we be worried about it?

So what if the sea levels will rise a few feet in the next hundred years. Your telling me a hundred years notice isn't enough time to allow people to move the hell out of the way?!

The Copenhagen Consensus Center 2008 ranked "mitigating CO2 emissions to curb global warming" at number 30 on their list of 30 solutions to the worlds 10 worst problems.

The best thing we can do is help people out of poverty and hunger so they can better handle it when and if it becomes a problem.

Besides, when was the last time the weatherman correctly predicted the weather?

If you ONLY raise people's standard of living, the historical result is more people (and more poor).

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different outcome.

I'm all for raising the global standard of living, but only if it is part of a global plan to end the population explosion.

[JRP3]

Originally Posted by paker

Where's John Coleman's name in the article? Not a word about the law suite.
I don't see the connection.

How many anti GW petitions do you think there are? Coleman didn't even start the petition, and never filed his lawsuit. It's all hype, there is no lawsuit and the petition is bogus.

Well, it’s been almost a year since that epochal meeting, and there’s still no sign of a lawsuit – this despite the heroic efforts of Frank Bi of the International Journal of Inactivism and others to ease his endeavor. (Of course, it doesn’t help that previous attempts to do so failed miserably.)

As for Coleman’s 30,000 backers: Let’s just say that that number may be slightly inflated. Based on a long-discredited petition passed around by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine during the 90s, it was even debunked by the Skeptics Society. The National Academy of Sciences called it “misleading” and “not based on a review of the science of global climate change, nor were its signers experts in the field of climate science.” Oh, and did I mention that several of its signatories are already dead?

http://test.desmogblog.com/john-cole...aiting-lawsuit
More:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-..._b_243092.html
http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/...up-or-shut-up/

[paker]

Surprise! There’s an active volcano under Antarctic ice

It seems that we still don’t know everything there is to know about our earth-climate system. Take this for example. Scientists have just now discovered an active volcano under the Antarctic ice that “creates melt-water that lubricates the base of the ice sheet and increases the flow towards the sea”.


Yet many claim the CO2 is the driver for any melting of the Antarctic ice sheet. I wonder how this will figure into that argument?

Hmmm..

[JRP3]

Originally Posted by paker

And the problem with "believers" is that they follow blindly.

That seems to describe you to a "T". You believe GW is a hoax, even in the face of real evidence.

Now let us look at the Arctic melting:

From MSNBC

Volcanoes erupting beneath Arctic ice
Fri., June 27, 2008
Seafloor unexpectedly active, but scientists see no connection to ice loss

Uhhh... ok

Do you think under sea volcanoes just suddenly appeared, or were they maybe there all along and we just didn't see all of them?
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2005...al-warming.php

Submarine volcanoes are causing global warming? This isn't possible, since the total heat flow coming from the interior of the earth is much too small to cause significant warming.

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2004/12/hissink.php

Scientists have extensively measured the flow of heat from inside the earth---it amounts to 0.075 Watts per square metre, while incoming solar radiation is 342 Watts per square metre, about 5000 times as much.

[dreamer]

Originally Posted by Jan

Hi Karlos,



I'm not arguing that there was/is a recent relatively sharp global rise in themperature. I accept that as a fact.

You shouldn't accept that. What ClimateGate -- the data and programs, not the e-mails -- shows is that the "scientists" have faked their data. Pretty brazen about putting the "fudge factors" into their FORTRAN programs that altered the raw temperature data as well. Even Russia has finally noticed that the CRU at East Anglia OMITTED 75% of the temperature data available for Russia because it was from remote locations and didn't show increases -- instead they used the 25% that was collected from urban areas where the "urban heat island effect" shows rising temperatures. The whole AGW scam is falling apart, but Copenhagen goes on and so do all the scammers that are getting rich from it.

A good read:

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...%20Scandal.pdf