[Nick Smith]

I have just had my wifes 2003 golf serviced with cambelt replacement, water pump, replaced leaking thermostat housing, oil change and engine flush and it hit me for 1700 bucks. Up to now we had only replaced the rear brakes for about 250 and then more recently the fuel pump packing in for 800 bucks down the pan. It is now starting to cost us! Converting this car now would likely save us a packet in these sorts of future costs but who can quantify this for any particular car. My old mans sigma only packed in at 350k because the water pump failed. The only major maintenance i ever remember was the cam belt change every 100k.

The value might be in converting a near new vehicle (2-3 yrs old) where the initial depreciation has been hit but the car is still in very good shape and the engine, exhaust - fuel pump - etc is worth something to others. Compared to the 60k for a leaf of imiev you could possibly drive away with a very good car for 45k ( if u do the work yourself) albeit not an oem but still near new and electric. Ok, but when compared to the petrol version of the same car though, 20 to $25k in conversion costs and time could buy approx 10 years of fuel. I suppose the value is all in what you actually compare the EV with.

[nucleus]

Are EV conversions economically worthwhile?

No. Every calculation I have seen says no. I have yet to see one that includes opportunity costs, which would make the comparison even worse.

Nucleus

[Ziggythewiz]

That's a pretty generic statement. MY opportunity cost is driving my minivan at a cost of $4-5/day vs $0.30 electric. I save $100 a month, and what money I do/have spent goes to American or Chinese companies, not middle eastern terrorists. How is that not worthwhile?

[nucleus]

Originally Posted by Ziggythewiz

That's a pretty generic statement. MY opportunity cost is driving my minivan at a cost of $4-5/day vs $0.30 electric. I save $100 a month, and what money I do/have spent goes to American or Chinese companies, not middle eastern terrorists. How is that not worthwhile?

You counter my "generic statement" (necessary because I was making a general statement) with a red herring statement. If you feel that your conversion is economically worthwhile state your numerical case. Where your money goes is a red herring side issue. The US doesn't get a majority of it's oil from the middle east BTW.

I think EV conversions are great, but they are clearly not economically worthwhile compared to ICE vehicles. Which is fine, those of us on this forum don't mind paying the premium. But it is disingenuous to tell someone that you save money by converting a vehicle to electric propulsion.

[Ziggythewiz]

Hey stupid. Read my post. The numbers were there. If you subtract my EV cost from my opportunity cost the difference is ROI.

As for where oil comes from, it doesn't matter where most of our oil comes from. As long as any of it comes from the middle east we will waste $trillions$ protecting it.

[nucleus]

Originally Posted by Ziggythewiz

Hey stupid. Read my post. The numbers were there. If you subtract my EV cost from my opportunity cost the difference is ROI.

As for where oil comes from, it doesn't matter where most of our oil comes from. As long as any of it comes from the middle east we will waste $trillions$ protecting it.

Hey smart. Read your post. The numbers were not there. To know your opportunity cost we need to know the cost of your conversion.

You might want to look up the economic definition of opportunity cost. The OP was asking an economic question and you bring in politics and insults.

[Quasar]

Just discovered this forum, I thought EVs in NZ were a non-event! Except for mine, of course. Which is a 1988 BMW 318 (E30) with a 135 cell LiFePO4 battery (3P, 45S), two Advanced DC L91 motors in tandem, and a Cougar 500A controller It'll do a bit over 100 kph (130 if I connect the motors in parallel) and travels 100 - 130 kms on a charge. Quite a practical round-town vehicle, but the range drops to about 80 kms driving at 100 kph.
It cost me approx $21,000 to build, about $13,500 for the Li cells.
The battery takes about 18 units of electricity for a full charge and if that takes me 100 kms, it costs about 4 cents per km, assuming electricity at 22 cents per unit. If the battery lasts 2000 cycles (CALB claim more) and each cycle is 100 kms, then 200,000 kms for $13,500 or 6.75 cents per km for an all up running cost of about 11 cents per km. Of course there are other costs such as tyres, brakes, rego, insurance, but they are the same as for a petrol driven thing, so ignored for the purpose of comparison. I'm ignoring brush replacement, they ought to be good for lots of kms and don't cost that much.
The petrol driven version does about 10L per 100 km - say about 21.5 cents per km for fuel. Other costs are servicing (oil, filters, belts and so on), typically about $500 every 10,000 kms, so 5 cents per km for a total running cost of about 26 cents per km.
There you go then, my EV saves me 15 cents per km over the petrol driven equivalent and you don't need to be a mathematical genius to work out that it'll take 140,000 kms before I break even! If my EV lasts for 200,000 kms, I'll save $1050 - whoop-de-doo!
But hey, if you add in the $50,000 worth of fun I had building it and driving it, you can see that it is a huge economic benefit.

[CrazyAl]

Originally Posted by Quasar

Just discovered this forum, I thought EVs in NZ were a non-event! Except for mine, of course. Which is a 1988 BMW 318 (E30) with a 135 cell LiFePO4 battery (3P, 45S), two Advanced DC L91 motors in tandem, and a Cougar 500A controller It'll do a bit over 100 kph (130 if I connect the motors in parallel) and travels 100 - 130 kms on a charge. Quite a practical round-town vehicle, but the range drops to about 80 kms driving at 100 kph.
It cost me approx $21,000 to build, about $13,500 for the Li cells.
The battery takes about 18 units of electricity for a full charge and if that takes me 100 kms, it costs about 4 cents per km, assuming electricity at 22 cents per unit. If the battery lasts 2000 cycles (CALB claim more) and each cycle is 100 kms, then 200,000 kms for $13,500 or 6.75 cents per km for an all up running cost of about 11 cents per km. Of course there are other costs such as tyres, brakes, rego, insurance, but they are the same as for a petrol driven thing, so ignored for the purpose of comparison. I'm ignoring brush replacement, they ought to be good for lots of kms and don't cost that much.
The petrol driven version does about 10L per 100 km - say about 21.5 cents per km for fuel. Other costs are servicing (oil, filters, belts and so on), typically about $500 every 10,000 kms, so 5 cents per km for a total running cost of about 26 cents per km.
There you go then, my EV saves me 15 cents per km over the petrol driven equivalent and you don't need to be a mathematical genius to work out that it'll take 140,000 kms before I break even! If my EV lasts for 200,000 kms, I'll save $1050 - whoop-de-doo!
But hey, if you add in the $50,000 worth of fun I had building it and driving it, you can see that it is a huge economic benefit.

BMW E30s are a nice car (I'm tempted to get one for conversion).
Do you have any pictures of your EV, particularly the layout etc? Would I be correct in assuming that your car is not running a transmission and it is direct drive?

Thanks

[Quasar]

Originally Posted by CrazyAl

BMW E30s are a nice car (I'm tempted to get one for conversion).
Do you have any pictures of your EV, particularly the layout etc? Would I be correct in assuming that your car is not running a transmission and it is direct drive?

Thanks

That's correct, no gearbox or clutch, just direct drive. I originally had a 1000A controller (blew up, sadly) and that gave heaps of torque and a good top speed with the motors in parallel (electrically). Since changing to a 500A controller, I had to wire the motors in series to get the starting torque back up which means the top speed has dropped as each motor only sees half voltage. It still does over 100 kph though, so I'm not concerned.
If you look here:

http://forums.aeva.asn.au/forums/for...=nevillehs-bmw

you will see the whole tale!

Its also on evalbum but I can't remember the exact link.

[evnz]

Originally Posted by Duncan

Hi Richard

You need to move to Southland - cheap houses and short commutes

I thought my Legacy would be about the worst - 9L/100 - I can pick up something small and cheap dead easy

As far as the maintenance costs - my 12 year old Legacy has cost a total of $250 over the last three years

My previous Legacy died at 350,000K and 16 years old - and I could have kept it going but I wanted the suspension for my project

A work mate had one it spent 4 of the 6 months in the shop geting fixed and it was southland
As far as cost goes if the petrol motor dies you get a replacement motor or car with a ev you keep the motor etc and get a new body