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  #1  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:06 AM
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Default [EVDL] ac box

I'm about ready to re-configure my ac wiring and relay for my new 10kw
charger and I need to find a box, probably suitable plastic, to house
the relay, power supply for the relay, and related stuff. Up to 50 amp
240vac going in and up to 50 amp ac going out. Also, low power up
240/120vac relay signal going in and out. Something like 8"x6"x4", I
think. Maybe bigger. Will someone suggest a source for such boxes?

I'll look for 10ga wire for the 50 amp path but may have to settle for
12ga.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 91 days 4 hours 52 minutes

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  #2  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] ac box

[quote] Willie McKemie wrote:

> I'm about ready to re-configure my ac wiring and relay for my new 10kw
> charger and I need to find a box, probably suitable plastic, to house
> the relay, power supply for the relay, and related stuff. Up to 50 amp
> 240vac going in and up to 50 amp ac going out. Also, low power up
> 240/120vac relay signal going in and out. Something like 8"x6"x4", I
> think. Maybe bigger. Will someone suggest a source for such boxes?

Our local Lowe's and Home Depot stores have them. They're nice gray
plastic boxes, in several sizes - 6x6x4 is a common size.
Thanks,
Josh


>
> I'll look for 10ga wire for the 50 amp path but may have to settle for
> 12ga.
>
> --
> Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 91 days 4 hours 52 minutes
>
> _______________________________________________
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> |
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] ac box

Check your local Radio Shack for "project boxes". They may have something
of a suitable size.

- Peter Flipsen Jr


[quote] Willie McKemie <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> I'm about ready to re-configure my ac wiring and relay for my new 10kw
> charger and I need to find a box, probably suitable plastic, to house
> the relay, power supply for the relay, and related stuff. Up to 50 amp
> 240vac going in and up to 50 amp ac going out. Also, low power up
> 240/120vac relay signal going in and out. Something like 8"x6"x4", I
> think. Maybe bigger. Will someone suggest a source for such boxes?
>
> I'll look for 10ga wire for the 50 amp path but may have to settle for
> 12ga.
>
> --
> Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 91 days 4 hours 52 minutes
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2012, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] ac box

[quote] Gary Krysztopik wrote:
> http://zwheelz.com/1957-VW-Bug.html

LOTSA of good ideas there! Even the rejected ideas seem good. You've
been busy! Should I consider coming to the July plugin San Antonio
thing to see the completed project?

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 91 days 6 hours 19 minutes

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  #5  
Old 06-19-2012, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] ac box

Thanks. No show for me at PlugIn2012 - it's just for the big boys. I
wanted to bring a new trike there but they were not offering any local
discount rates or even non-profit space for our EAA chapter. I'm still
excited that it's coming here and I'm sure all the speakers and programs
will be well worth attending. Maybe I could even find an EV company
that's hiring! Found a bunch of crowdfunding sites so I'll be trying
that angle next.

Gary Krysztopik
ZWheelz, LLC - www.ZWheelz.com
Alamo City Electric Auto Association - www.aceaa.org
blog - http://voices.mysanantonio.com/drive_electric_san_antonio/
San Antonio, TX

On 6/19/2012 11:18 AM, Willie McKemie wrote:
> [quote] Gary Krysztopik wrote:
>> http://zwheelz.com/1957-VW-Bug.html
> LOTSA of good ideas there! Even the rejected ideas seem good. You've
> been busy! Should I consider coming to the July plugin San Antonio
> thing to see the completed project?
>



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  #6  
Old 06-19-2012, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] ac box

[quote]On 19 Jun 2012 at 9:57, Willie McKemie wrote:

> Will someone suggest a source for such boxes?

If you need something of an exact size to fit a particular spot, there's a
small business fabricating custom aluminium boxes about an hour north of
here, in Elyria, Ohio They do respectable work at surprisingly reasonable
prices. You can email or fax them a dimensioned drawing, either rough or
detailed; they'll make the box and ship it to you.

I commissioned them to make battery boxes for a scooter I was working on
last winter, and was pretty well satisfied with the result. IIRC, it took
them a couple of weeks. They stay pretty busy.

http://customaluminumboxes.com/

> I'll look for 10ga wire for the 50 amp path but may have to settle for
> 12ga.

Even AWG 10 would be undersized unless you're stringing it overhead in free
air. Even then, loss from resistance could be significant unless it's a
very short run. Enclosed, #10 shouldn't carry more than 33 amps; #12, not
more than 23a. Normally #12 is protected (fused) at 20a and #10 at 30a.

For 50a, I'd go with at least AWG 8, which IIRC can be protected at 50a when
insulation is rated 75 deg C and in conduit (I'm sure Roland W will have the
final word on this). AWG 6 would be better, safer, with lower loss.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

[top]


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/

[top]


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .

[top]


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2012, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] ac box

I used the same company for my battery box, they did a great job and
are quite affordable.



[quote] EVDL Administrator <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> On 19 Jun 2012 at 9:57, Willie McKemie wrote:
>
>> Will someone suggest a source for such boxes?
>
> If you need something of an exact size to fit a particular spot, there's a
> small business fabricating custom aluminium boxes about an hour north of
> here, in Elyria, Ohio They do respectable work at surprisingly reasona=
ble
> prices. You can email or fax them a dimensioned drawing, either rough =
or
> detailed; they'll make the box and ship it to you.
>
> I commissioned them to make battery boxes for a scooter I was working on
> last winter, and was pretty well satisfied with the result. IIRC, it t=
ook
> them a couple of weeks. They stay pretty busy.
>
> http://customaluminumboxes.com/
>
>> I'll look for 10ga wire for the 50 amp path but may have to settle for
>> 12ga.
>
> Even AWG 10 would be undersized unless you're stringing it overhead in fr=
ee
> air. Even then, loss from resistance could be significant unless it's a
> very short run. Enclosed, #10 shouldn't carry more than 33 amps; #12, =
not
> more than 23a. Normally #12 is protected (fused) at 20a and #10 at 30a.
>
> For 50a, I'd go with at least AWG 8, which IIRC can be protected at 50a w=
hen
> insulation is rated 75 deg C and in conduit (I'm sure Roland W will have =
the
> final word on this). AWG 6 would be better, safer, with lower loss.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =

[top]3D


3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =

[top]3D


3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =

[top]3D


3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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-- =

www.electric-lemon.com

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  #8  
Old 06-19-2012, 03:45 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] ac box

I have a friend who works in a metal shop.
Give him a drawing and measurements and he will make
the box or bracket you want. Alu or stainless steel is
what I have done with him. Let me know and I will get
you his contact info.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:18 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ac box

[quote]On 19 Jun 2012 at 9:57, Willie McKemie wrote:

> Will someone suggest a source for such boxes?

If you need something of an exact size to fit a particular spot, there's
a small business fabricating custom aluminium boxes about an hour north
of here, in Elyria, Ohio They do respectable work at surprisingly
reasonable prices. You can email or fax them a dimensioned drawing,
either rough or detailed; they'll make the box and ship it to you.

I commissioned them to make battery boxes for a scooter I was working on
last winter, and was pretty well satisfied with the result. IIRC, it
took them a couple of weeks. They stay pretty busy.

http://customaluminumboxes.com/

> I'll look for 10ga wire for the 50 amp path but may have to settle for

> 12ga.

Even AWG 10 would be undersized unless you're stringing it overhead in
free air. Even then, loss from resistance could be significant unless
it's a very short run. Enclosed, #10 shouldn't carry more than 33 amps;
#12, not more than 23a. Normally #12 is protected (fused) at 20a and
#10 at 30a.

For 50a, I'd go with at least AWG 8, which IIRC can be protected at 50a
when insulation is rated 75 deg C and in conduit (I'm sure Roland W will
have the final word on this). AWG 6 would be better, safer, with lower
loss.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

[top]


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL
Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

[top]


= = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .

[top]


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2012, 05:55 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] ac box

[quote] Lee Hart wrote:
> On 6/19/2012 9:57 AM, Willie McKemie wrote:
> > I'll look for 10ga wire for the 50 amp path but may have to settle
> > for 12ga.
>
> I think you want to go heavier; like 6 gauge. 12 gauge is only rated for
> 20 amps continuous. Even 10 gauge is only rated at 25 amps continuous!

This:
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
tells me 10' of 10ga copper wire conducting 50 amps at 240vac will
have a ~1v drop or about .43%. 12ga, ~1.6v, .68%.
They don't say anything about wire heating; I wonder if that is an
issue.

I think wire gauges larger than 10 will be too difficult to manage for
my purposes.

Thanks, all, for the box suggestions!

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 91 days 13 hours 41 minutes

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  #10  
Old 06-19-2012, 06:16 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] ac box

[quote]Willie McKemie wrote:

> This:
> http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
> tells me 10' of 10ga copper wire conducting 50 amps at 240vac will
> have a ~1v drop or about .43%. 12ga, ~1.6v, .68%.
> They don't say anything about wire heating; I wonder if that is an
> issue.

Yes, it is an issue ;^>

~1V @ 50A is ~50W of heat being dissipated in that wire.

Try this ampacity table; it gives values based on 75C conductor temperature in 30C ambient and provides derating factors for higher ambient conditions. Bear in mind that if the cable is enclosed inside a conduit, then its ambient will be hotter than the outside air temp due to heat dissipated by the cable being trapped inside the conduit.

<http://www.okonite.com/engineering/nec-ampacity-tables.html>

Cheers,

Roger.


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