[EVDL List]

I am considering swapping my charge inlet over to J1772 and have a few questions.

My current set up is a MM PFC-30 charger with a L6-30 inlet. (144 volt flooded lead acid pack).

I have a number of adapters that allow me to charge from regular 120 or 240 NEMA recepticals.

I understand the athe commercial EVSE stations are now j1772 and the require a pilot signal.

The TusanEV ( http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html ) setup looks like a reasonable solution to charge from proper J1772 EVSE but my concern is with using a NEMA receptacle. I am comfortable making adapters to get AC power to the J1172 plug but what happens with the pilot circuitry when the AC source is a regulate NEMA reciptical?

John in Boston

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[EVDL List]

Glad to see you are making the move to J1772 as this is now the standard for
EV connection, even at home. Wire the J1772 direct to the charger 220v, then
in parallel add a 110vac connector under the hood for a connection to 110vac
under 15amp. If you are not adding a J1772 to your home and want to continue
using a 220vac 6-30, just add that to the connection to the J1772 at the
charger. The pilot signal is not used except when using the J1772 at a
public or home charger.



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[quote] Cruisin <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> Glad to see you are making the move to J1772 as this is now the standard for
> EV connection, even at home.

Still just considering and while it may be standard I suspect the majority of on the road EVs in the USA do not use J1772, but I could be wrong.

> Wire the J1772 direct to the charger 220v, then
> in parallel add a 110vac connector under the hood for a connection to 110vac
> under 15amp.

I could have done this with my existing set-up and chose not to.
> If you are not adding a J1772 to your home and want to continue
> using a 220vac 6-30,

How would I be using J1772 at home without using 120/240 NEMA something or other and what is the advantage?

> just add that to the connection to the J1772 at the
> charger. The pilot signal is not used except when using the J1772 at a
> public or home charger.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Adding-J1772-capabilities-to-conversion-tp4657053p4657056.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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[EVDL List]

[quote]JOHN OCONNOR wrote:

> Still just considering and while it may be standard I suspect the majority
> of on the road EVs in the USA do not use J1772, but I could be wrong.

You are. The number of OEM on-road EVs (Leaf, iMiev, etc.) and PHEVs (Volt) may still be small, but they surely already outnumber the hobbyist on-road highway-capable EVs. If you consider on-road LSV/MSV NEVs as well, then the OEM highway-capable EVs may not yet have the majority.

> How would I be using J1772 at home without using 120/240 NEMA something or
> other and what is the advantage?

J1772 refers to the connection system between the off-board AC power source (EVSE) and the onboard charger. It includes both the connector system and the signals, and you cannot be using J1772 while using *any* NEMA connector instead of the J1772 plug and receptacle.

A NEMA connector set might be used between the J1772 EVSE and the utility service, but the connection to the vehicle (and onboard charger) would be the J1772 connector set.

You could do like the OEM EV opportunity/convenience charge cords and simply use an extension cord with a NEMA plug on one end to plug into an outlet in the garage, and a J1772 paddle on the other to plug into the vehicle-mounted J1772 inlet. Use adapters on the NEMA end of the cord to allow plugging into 240VAC or 120VAC.

The offboard J1772 EVSE is responsible for providing the requisite pilot signal. A true J1772 implementation on the vehicle side would monitor for the pilot signal and would require that it fall within strict limits before allowing charging, however, your charger (like most used by hobbyists) is incapable of this, and so your vehicle-side J1772 implementation would consist simply of a circuit to load the pilot signal such that when you plug a J1772 charging station paddle into your vehicle it will turn on the AC supply to your charger.

Cheers,

Roger.


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[EVDL List]

Just adding inlets in parallel has the risk that you
expose the grid power on the unused inlet's pins.

My suggestion would be to either isolate the different
inlets using a simple relay that pulls in with the
particular inlet being powered and disables the other
inlets.

There are converters to J1772 (essentially a
stripped-down charging station with two cords,
one having J1772 to plug into the car, the other
to plug the charging station into the wall.
The functions provided by such a converter are
essentially just generating the pilot to tell the
EV that it can charge and how much current and to
monitor the grid wires for GFCI.

I know Rush is working on such a portable charging
station, he has announced it about a year back and
I have offered him some help, but I also see converters
available from Modular EV power and there probably are
others.
On the vehicle side there is a simple circuit that you
can buy for $35 or so that receives the pilot, but if
you are comfortable with electronics you can also hack
a circuit together. Having a J1772 inlet on your car
allows you to charge at any new public charge station,
although a lot of them still support NEMA 5-20 which
allows you to pull up to 16A at 120V. That outlet does
not have a pilot obviously, so some charge stations
detect the presence of a 120V plug in an optical manner
which has confused some EV'ers that used a cord with a
transparent plug and they had to tape around that plug
in order to get the charging station to detect the
presence of the plug.

Sometimes we make things "too smart".

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of JOHN OCONNOR
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 11:25 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding J1772 capabilities to conversion

[quote] Cruisin <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> Glad to see you are making the move to J1772 as this is now the
> standard for EV connection, even at home.

Still just considering and while it may be standard I suspect the
majority of on the road EVs in the USA do not use J1772, but I could be
wrong.

> Wire the J1772 direct to the charger 220v, then in parallel add a
> 110vac connector under the hood for a connection to 110vac under
> 15amp.

I could have done this with my existing set-up and chose not to.
> If you are not adding a J1772 to your home and want to continue using
> a 220vac 6-30,

How would I be using J1772 at home without using 120/240 NEMA something
or other and what is the advantage?

> just add that to the connection to the J1772 at the charger. The pilot

> signal is not used except when using the J1772 at a public or home
> charger.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Adding-J1
> 772-capabilities-to-conversion-tp4657053p4657056.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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[EVDL List]

Nothing... it passes thru with no problem.

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf Of JOHN OCONNOR
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 6:44 AM
> To: Electric Discussion List Vehicle
> Subject: [EVDL] Adding J1772 capabilities to conversion
>
> I am considering swapping my charge inlet over to J1772 and have a few
> questions.
>
> My current set up is a MM PFC-30 charger with a L6-30 inlet. (144 volt
> flooded lead acid pack).
>
> I have a number of adapters that allow me to charge from regular 120 or
240
> NEMA recepticals.
>
> I understand the athe commercial EVSE stations are now j1772 and the
> require a pilot signal.
>
> The TusanEV ( http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html ) setup looks like a
> reasonable solution to charge from proper J1772 EVSE but my concern is
> with using a NEMA receptacle. I am comfortable making adapters to get AC
> power to the J1172 plug but what happens with the pilot circuitry when the
> AC source is a regulate NEMA reciptical?
>
> John in Boston
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
> -----
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5187 - Release Date: 08/08/12


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[EVDL List]

> You could do like the OEM EV opportunity/convenience charge cords and
> simply use an extension cord with a NEMA plug on one end to plug into an
> outlet in the garage, and a J1772 paddle on the other to plug into the
> vehicle-mounted J1772 inlet. Use adapters on the NEMA end of the cord to
> allow plugging into 240VAC or 120VAC.

Some conversion owners have bought either a J1772 Plug alone, or with cord
and hooked it up directly to their garage 240vac so that they do not have to
have an Adapter cord for home use when using the J1772 Adapter Box that I
sell.
See the J1772 to NEMA plugs that Darren made -
http://tucsonev.com/darren.html

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com

Sent 8/9/2012, 5:40 pm AZ time


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[EVDL List]

"Just adding inlets in parallel has the risk that you
expose the grid power on the unused inlet's pins"

NOT TRUE, a unconnected female 6-30 receptacle is twist locked on the plug
so the contacts are not exposed. As I have stated before, it is essential if
you expect to get the most use out of your conversion, and the most money
for it when you sell and you will someday, to make it as standard to the
industry as possible. If you don't, go to ebay and look at all the lead
acid, 24v fork lift powered, etc for sale.



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[EVDL List]

[quote]Cruisin wrote:

> "Just adding inlets in parallel has the risk that you
> expose the grid power on the unused inlet's pins"
>
> NOT TRUE, a unconnected female 6-30 receptacle is twist locked on the plug
> so the contacts are not exposed. As I have stated before, it is essential
> if you expect to get the most use out of your conversion, and the most
> money for it when you sell and you will someday, to make it as standard to
> the industry as possible.

Relying on a dummy receptacle to remain in place over the life of the vehicle to protect against someone being shocked by the live male pins if plugged into J1772 is foolish.

Are you also going to have a dummy J1772 plug to cover the J1772 receptacle contacts that will be backfed and energized when charging using one of the other AC inlets?

I would suggest that maximum resale value is achieved by building and wiring the EV properly, and in this case that means having a single charge inlet. If you anticipate frequent use of public charge stations, install a J1772 inlet on the vehicle and then make yourself an extension cord with a J1772 paddle on the vehicle end to allow charging from ordinary outlets. Put a male twist lock on the other end of the extension cord and make a couple of adapter cords that have a male NEMA plug on one end and a female twistlock on the other.

If you want to allow occasional use of public charge stations, perhaps mount a male twist lock flanged inlet on the vehicle and use an off-board J1772-to-NEMA adapter box such as Rush/TusconEV sells to plug your charge cord into on those infrequent occasions.

Either way the vehicle is neat and clean, with a single charge inlet and no inlets in parallel whose contacts will be energized while some other inlet is in use and that must rely on dummy connectors remaining in place to prevent fingers reaching them.

Cheers,

Roger.


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[EVDL List]

Awwww, you are scaring me.
Especially if you are suggestion to *sell* such a dangerous
setup, prone to an unwitting person to remove the unconnected
plug and having the full grid power exposed on male pins,
which is EXACTLY the type of thing that could give people
unfriendly to DIY EVs the ammunition to require certifying
EVs before they can be registered.
Please build safe so we do not create more negative news than
there already is.
It is *very* easy to install a relay to separate the inlets
if you have more than one, so you avoid this situation and
have a safe setup.
Your proposal is as bad as suggesting for a power outage to
backfeed your house with a genset and a cord with two
male plugs, one plugged into the nearest wall outlet and
the other into the genset.
If you have no idea why this is bad then I suggest you first
consult an electrician and your lawyer.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Cruisin
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 3:27 PM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding J1772 capabilities to conversion

"Just adding inlets in parallel has the risk that you expose the grid
power on the unused inlet's pins"

NOT TRUE, a unconnected female 6-30 receptacle is twist locked on the
plug so the contacts are not exposed. As I have stated before, it is
essential if you expect to get the most use out of your conversion, and
the most money for it when you sell and you will someday, to make it as
standard to the industry as possible. If you don't, go to ebay and look
at all the lead acid, 24v fork lift powered, etc for sale.



--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Adding-J177
2-capabilities-to-conversion-tp4657053p4657103.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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