DIY Electric Car Forums > External Information > EVDL List

EVDL List · #1 07-20-2012, 01:55 PM

3rd pack is fading; another 10K miles in 2.7 years.A CALB pack of 70Ah at 1=
44V would run me $4200.As I'm running 2.2K floodies per 3 years, I''d need =
to get 6 years out of them to make them pencil out. I recognize it's act=
ually another $700 of MiniBMS, etc.
I'm just not doing a good enough job of understanding floodies and when the=
y're equalized. At the same time, I'm concerned about lithium longevity =
in heat. My town has some days of 90-105F over the summer. If LEAFs a=
re having problems, what's to keep CALBs from doing the same?I'm also conce=
rned about pulling high amps to get 2500 lbs. in motion (currently 3200 lbs=
).
What's the longest people have had lithiums on the road out there?Appreciat=
ively,

Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic? See http://home.b=
udget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html for DVD and tons more info!

____ =

__/__|__\__ =

[top]3DD-------/ - - \

'O'-----'O'-'

Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering whe=
el?

OR Lic. "LCTRNS"

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EVDL List · #2 07-20-2012, 06:35 PM

[quote] Bob Bath wrote:
> What's the longest people have had lithiums on the road out there?Appreciatively,?

The Leaf battery is lithium manganese, I believe. LiMn has a poorer
reputation for longevity than LFP, something like 500-1000 cycles vs
1000-5000 cycles. When I bought my Leaf, I figured "Nissan must know
what they are doing". Now, I think not. In just over a year and about
17k miles, I've lost about 15% of the Leaf's capacity. In about three
years and about 32k miles, my LFPs are at about 100% capacity down from
about 110%. Last summer here in central Texas may have been the killer
for Leaf batteries; about 100 days above 100 deg.

I see no reason to worry about LFPs. I think the TS/CALB/Winston/etc
LFPs are far better than Leaf batteries.

I have lost several LFP cells due apparently to BMS problems.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 3 days 5 hours 48 minutes

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EVDL List · #3 07-20-2012, 07:25 PM

I would love to jump to lithium as well. I am in the same position as yo=
u are. I decided to spend the $2500, get another 3plus years out of the =
trojans, and at that time, hope we are closer to $2000 lithiums (or better)

________________________________
From: Bob Bath <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu> =

Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:50 PM
Subject: [EVDL] And yet another floodie to CALB?/Lithium longevity.

[top]

3rd pack is fading; another 10K miles in 2.7 years.A CALB pack of 70Ah at 1

44V would run me $4200.As I'm running 2.2K floodies per 3 years, I''d need =
to get 6 years out of them to make them pencil out. I recognize it's act=
ually another $700 of MiniBMS, etc.
I'm just not doing a good enough job of understanding floodies and when the=
y're equalized. At the same time, I'm concerned about lithium longevity =
in heat. My town has some days of 90-105F over the summer. If LEAFs a=
re having problems, what's to keep CALBs from doing the same?I'm also conce=
rned about pulling high amps to get 2500 lbs. in motion (currently 3200 lbs=
).
What's the longest people have had lithiums on the road out there?Appreciat=
ively,

Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic? See http://home=
.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html for DVD and tons more info!

____ =

__/__|__\__ =

[top]3DD-------/ - - \

'O'-----'O'-'

Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering whe=
el?

OR Lic. "LCTRNS"

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EVDL List · #4 07-20-2012, 09:45 PM

I have about 2 years on the Thundersky cells in my del Sol. I've worked on
the car during the two winters so I only have about 12K miles on the car and
cells. So far, still going strong and no lost cells. I hope to keep
putting on 10K miles per year driving year round. I'm hoping I can be a
good data point for lithium longevity in 8 to 10 years. For now, all I can
say is two years with no issues.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf Of Bob Bath
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:51 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] And yet another floodie to CALB?/Lithium longevity.
> =

> 3rd pack is fading; another 10K miles in 2.7 years.A CALB pack of 70Ah at
144V
> would run me $4200.As I'm running 2.2K floodies per 3 years, I''d need to
get
> 6 years out of them to make them pencil out. I recognize it's actually
another
> $700 of MiniBMS, etc.
> I'm just not doing a good enough job of understanding floodies and when
> they're equalized. At the same time, I'm concerned about lithium
longevity
> in heat. My town has some days of 90-105F over the summer. If LEAFs=
are
> having problems, what's to keep CALBs from doing the same?I'm also
> concerned about pulling high amps to get 2500 lbs. in motion (currently
3200
> lbs).
> What's the longest people have had lithiums on the road out
> there?Appreciatively,
> =

> =

> Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic? See
> http://home.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html for DVD and tons
> more info!
> =

> ____
> =

> __/__|__\__
> =

> =3DD-------/ - - \
> =

> 'O'-----'O'-'
> =

> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel?
> =

> OR Lic. "LCTRNS"
> =

> =

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EVDL List · #5 07-21-2012, 06:15 AM

I have about 1.5 years on my 48cell, 200ah pack (thundersky). I'm away from my car on vacation for a little while, but I think I have about ~16,000 miles so far. The pack is as strong as it was when I originally got it. I have never taken the cells to lower then 20% (actually, never lower than 30%).

corbin

[quote] Bob Bath <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> 3rd pack is fading; another 10K miles in 2.7 years.A CALB pack of 70Ah at 144V would run me $4200.As I'm running 2.2K floodies per 3 years, I''d need to get 6 years out of them to make them pencil out. I recognize it's actually another $700 of MiniBMS, etc.
> I'm just not doing a good enough job of understanding floodies and when they're equalized. At the same time, I'm concerned about lithium longevity in heat. My town has some days of 90-105F over the summer. If LEAFs are having problems, what's to keep CALBs from doing the same?I'm also concerned about pulling high amps to get 2500 lbs. in motion (currently 3200 lbs).
> What's the longest people have had lithiums on the road out there?Appreciatively,
>
>
> Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic? See http://home.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html for DVD and tons more info!
>
> ____
>
> __/__|__\__
>
> =D-------/ - - \
>
> 'O'-----'O'-'
>
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
>
> OR Lic. "LCTRNS"
>
>
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EVDL List · #6 07-21-2012, 08:27 AM

The 37 Jag uses 30 260ah Thundersky batts. They sat on the garage floor
for a year while we waited for the Zilla

Absolutely no discharge.
Stable as a rock. We don't have a ton of miles on it since it's more of a
cruiser than a commuter. Range should be better than 100 miles but it has
only been tested to 90 miles.
Cheers

[quote] corbin dunn <xxx@xxx.xxx>wrote:

> I have about 1.5 years on my 48cell, 200ah pack (thundersky). I'm away
> from my car on vacation for a little while, but I think I have about
> ~16,000 miles so far. The pack is as strong as it was when I originally got
> it. I have never taken the cells to lower then 20% (actually, never lower
> than 30%).
>
> corbin
>
> On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:50 PM, Bob Bath <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> > 3rd pack is fading; another 10K miles in 2.7 years.A CALB pack of 70Ah
> at 144V would run me $4200.As I'm running 2.2K floodies per 3 years, I''d
> need to get 6 years out of them to make them pencil out. I recognize it's
> actually another $700 of MiniBMS, etc.
> > I'm just not doing a good enough job of understanding floodies and when
> they're equalized. At the same time, I'm concerned about lithium longevity
> in heat. My town has some days of 90-105F over the summer. If LEAFs are
> having problems, what's to keep CALBs from doing the same?I'm also
> concerned about pulling high amps to get 2500 lbs. in motion (currently
> 3200 lbs).
> > What's the longest people have had lithiums on the road out
> there?Appreciatively,
> >
> >
> > Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic? See
> http://home.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html for DVD and tons more
> info!
> >
> > ____
> >
> > __/__|__\__
> >
> > =D-------/ - - \
> >
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> >
> > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel?
> >
> > OR Lic. "LCTRNS"
> >
> >
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> > |
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>

--
Marcus Reddish

*North Valley Systems LLC*
Stevensville, Montana
406-360-8628
northvalleyev.com
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EVDL List · #7 07-21-2012, 08:45 AM

[quote] Marcus Reddish wrote:
> The 37 Jag uses 30 260ah Thundersky batts. They sat on the garage floor

I find no Jaguars in evablum. Nor a Reddish.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 3 days 23 hours 01 minutes

_______________________________________________
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EVDL List · #8 07-21-2012, 09:26 AM

http://www.evalbum.com/3980

Quite an impressive EV! Well done.

----- Original Message ----
From: Willie McKemie <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Sat, July 21, 2012 10:39:07 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] And yet another floodie to CALB?/Lithium longevity.

[quote] Marcus Reddish wrote:
> The 37 Jag uses 30 260ah Thundersky batts. They sat on the garage floor

I find no Jaguars in evablum. Nor a Reddish.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 3 days 23 hours 01 minutes

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EVDL List · #9 07-21-2012, 10:35 PM

(Lee Hart) wrote: >Why not try just a few lithiums? If they have an
equal or high amphour
capacity than the rest of the lead-acid pack, then the lead will go dead
first, warning you and protecting the lithiums. When you charge, use a
BMS to prevent the lithiums from overcharging.

Give it a year, and see how well the lithiums are actually performing.>

I did something like this with one cell added to my lead acid pack just to
see how it would do. I quickly noticed that the lithium cell needed less
ah put back in than the Hawker lead acid. I don't think the battery
management or something that shuttles an amp is going to be enough, the
lead acid batteries will not get enough ah to get charged.

You could use a separate charger for your Lithium cells.
Steve Clunn
--
Steve & Audrey
Your Green Shed Team
772-971-0533
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com
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EVDL List · #10 07-21-2012, 11:46 PM

That would also be my concern - the flooded lead is
typically charged 110% of the removed current, so
take 50Ah out, put approx 55 Ah back in.
If the Lithium BMS does not burn off the extra 5Ah
then the cell will overcharge every cycle.
If you can manage to set your charger up so that the
finish charging is when the extra 10% gets put back in
and at a current that is lower than your Lithium BMS can
handle (or that it can throttle back your charger!)
then you can bypass that current in a heavy enough
resistor to keep the Lihium in its happy voltage range.
But that may mean 5+ Amps of bypass current, depending
on how your charger setup is.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Steve Clunn
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 9:28 PM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Subject: Re: [EVDL] And yet another floodie to CALB?/Lithium longevity.

(Lee Hart) wrote: >Why not try just a few lithiums? If they have an
equal or high amphour
capacity than the rest of the lead-acid pack, then the lead will go dead
first, warning you and protecting the lithiums. When you charge, use a
BMS to prevent the lithiums from overcharging.

Give it a year, and see how well the lithiums are actually performing.>

I did something like this with one cell added to my lead acid pack just
to
see how it would do. I quickly noticed that the lithium cell needed
less
ah put back in than the Hawker lead acid. I don't think the battery
management or something that shuttles an amp is going to be enough, the
lead acid batteries will not get enough ah to get charged.

You could use a separate charger for your Lithium cells.
Steve Clunn
--
Steve & Audrey
Your Green Shed Team
772-971-0533
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com
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