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  #1  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:15 PM
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Default [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

Troubles again ... my upgraded Leopard's charger, an Elcon PFC 1500, decided
to quit on me. The LED doesn't blink, the relay closes (from my Lithiumate
Lite BMS), but I get no current. It died, as far as I can tell, when
charging off of a standard 120vac just 10% from reaching a full charge on my
120vdc pack.

I'm depressed to think that I have to pack it up and ship it back to
California after getting only about 5 full cycles out of it after they
reprogrammed it for the 38xCALB 130ah lithium pack. (They reprogrammed it
to curve 520, to 137 volts).

1.- What's the typical reason for such a failure? (I'm not ruling out my
doing something stupid / or at least not good for it - though it seems like
I would not have gotten the 5 cycles out of it if I had).

2.- Does anybody have experience with this kind problem with their Elcon?
If yes, are there some things I can do to diagnose (or better yet fix), the
problem?

3.- If it is the AC fuse (as support at Elcon has suggested), is this
something I could try on my own instead of being down for a couple weeks and
paying for shipping? (I realize this is more a question for Elcon and would
perhaps void any warranty [see q#4 below], but wondered if anyone had tried
it).

4.- Should they cover this under a warranty?


Thanks - Dan







-----
Dan Gallagher
http://www.evalbum.com/3854

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  #2  
Old 11-02-2012, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

Hi Dan,
Not an elcon, but my Manzanita has had several similar problems. Details here:

http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2012/09/plug-bug-pfc-30-charger-failed-again/

Unfortunately, I don't recommend people use the Manzanita Micro PFC-30 anymore. It has failed on me twice, for absolutely no reason. I've been using it within the limits it is supposed to be rated for -- 30 amps in -- although, I usually charge less because it overheats and does thermal cutback (indicated by a blinking LED light).

It was really easy to get Manzanita to fix it; however, each time it wasn't covered by their warranty, and I had to pay out of pocket for it. Each time I tried to get information on why it failed, but I didn't get a definitive answer other than "overheating on the AC line". I don't understand why I would get that condition.

corbin


[quote] Danpatgal <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> Troubles again ... my upgraded Leopard's charger, an Elcon PFC 1500, decided
> to quit on me. The LED doesn't blink, the relay closes (from my Lithiumate
> Lite BMS), but I get no current. It died, as far as I can tell, when
> charging off of a standard 120vac just 10% from reaching a full charge on my
> 120vdc pack.
>
> I'm depressed to think that I have to pack it up and ship it back to
> California after getting only about 5 full cycles out of it after they
> reprogrammed it for the 38xCALB 130ah lithium pack. (They reprogrammed it
> to curve 520, to 137 volts).
>
> 1.- What's the typical reason for such a failure? (I'm not ruling out my
> doing something stupid / or at least not good for it - though it seems like
> I would not have gotten the 5 cycles out of it if I had).
>
> 2.- Does anybody have experience with this kind problem with their Elcon?
> If yes, are there some things I can do to diagnose (or better yet fix), the
> problem?
>
> 3.- If it is the AC fuse (as support at Elcon has suggested), is this
> something I could try on my own instead of being down for a couple weeks and
> paying for shipping? (I realize this is more a question for Elcon and would
> perhaps void any warranty [see q#4 below], but wondered if anyone had tried
> it).
>
> 4.- Should they cover this under a warranty?
>
>
> Thanks - Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Dan Gallagher
> http://www.evalbum.com/3854
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Elcon-PFC-1500-Died-tp4659099.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2012, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

Sorry to hear about your Elcon failure. Don't spend any money to fix it, its
way too small anyway. The standard now is at least 6kw for charging
preferably using the J1772. Anything less is a waist of time and money.
Don't give up on Elcon, I use a Elcon 6kw and most others I know use at
least a 5kw. You can say you don't need it, but am really saying you don't
want to spend the money. Upgrade.



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  #4  
Old 11-03-2012, 04:28 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

[quote] Cruisin wrote:

> Sorry to hear about your Elcon failure. Don't spend any money to fix it, its
> way too small anyway. The standard now is at least 6kw for charging
> preferably using the J1772. Anything less is a waist of time and money.
> Don't give up on Elcon, I use a Elcon 6kw and most others I know use at
> least a 5kw. You can say you don't need it, but am really saying you don't
> want to spend the money. Upgrade.
>

'The standard' is NOT 6kw - you are just peddling the same get-rich-quick nonsense that the 'industry' insists on without any justification for doing so.

Most people just need a regular 110V socket, or 240V at a pinch, combined with a proper, country-wide network of high-power, DC, fast chargers at 50kW+ - like Tesla's Supercharger Network.

MW

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  #5  
Old 11-03-2012, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

Cruisin wrote
> Don't spend any money to fix it, its way too small anyway. ... Upgrade.

I've thought of that ... but it's not really been my experience that
upgrading gives better quality. And Cor's feedback on the Manzanita charger
confirms this could happen to any charger.

At work I charge on a 20amp 120v circuit, so I can't use a bigger charger
anyway. I have a small pack (roughly 16kwh), so even at 1300w, it refuels
overnight without a problem.

But, I am still thinking about getting a new charger. My onboard space is
kind of small and I hate spending more on something that was supposed to be
saving me money, but we'll see. I just wish I could fix it myself ...

Dan



-----
Dan Gallagher
http://www.evalbum.com/3854

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|
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  #6  
Old 11-03-2012, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

There are only two reasons that I am aware that can cause a Manzanita
charger to fail:
1) Disconnect the DC side under load.Even briefly. (Doesn't kill them
every time, but often.)
2) Low budget PM generator for AC source. They _really_ don't like
this for some reason.

I have been running these chargers for many many years and have only
managed to wound one once. It was my own fault for rigging up a goofy
temporary jumper cable output that had a loose connection.

If you have been running your Manzanita charger from a low-budget
permanent magnet generator, then you can expect problems. Sometimes
after the fact. I'll guess that the waveform or the power factor from
the PM generator under full load is so weird that the charger
magnetics overheat. Perhaps someone else has investigated more fully
and has pinpointed the exact root cause.

Bill D.

At 05:08 PM 11/2/2012, you wrote:
>Hi Dan,
>Not an elcon, but my Manzanita has had several similar problems. Details here:
>
>http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2012/09/plug-bug-pfc-30-charger-failed-again/
>
>Unfortunately, I don't recommend people use the Manzanita Micro
>PFC-30 anymore. It has failed on me twice, for absolutely no reason.
>I've been using it within the limits it is supposed to be rated for
>-- 30 amps in -- although, I usually charge less because it
>overheats and does thermal cutback (indicated by a blinking LED light).
>
>It was really easy to get Manzanita to fix it; however, each time it
>wasn't covered by their warranty, and I had to pay out of pocket for
>it. Each time I tried to get information on why it failed, but I
>didn't get a definitive answer other than "overheating on the AC
>line". I don't understand why I would get that condition.
>
>corbin
>
>
>[quote] Danpatgal <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> > Troubles again ... my upgraded Leopard's charger, an Elcon PFC
> 1500, decided
> > to quit on me. The LED doesn't blink, the relay closes (from my Lithiumate
> > Lite BMS), but I get no current. It died, as far as I can tell, when
> > charging off of a standard 120vac just 10% from reaching a full
> charge on my
> > 120vdc pack.
> >
> > I'm depressed to think that I have to pack it up and ship it back to
> > California after getting only about 5 full cycles out of it after they
> > reprogrammed it for the 38xCALB 130ah lithium pack. (They reprogrammed it
> > to curve 520, to 137 volts).
> >
> > 1.- What's the typical reason for such a failure? (I'm not ruling out my
> > doing something stupid / or at least not good for it - though it seems like
> > I would not have gotten the 5 cycles out of it if I had).
> >
> > 2.- Does anybody have experience with this kind problem with their Elcon?
> > If yes, are there some things I can do to diagnose (or better yet fix), the
> > problem?
> >
> > 3.- If it is the AC fuse (as support at Elcon has suggested), is this
> > something I could try on my own instead of being down for a
> couple weeks and
> > paying for shipping? (I realize this is more a question for
> Elcon and would
> > perhaps void any warranty [see q#4 below], but wondered if anyone had tried
> > it).
> >
> > 4.- Should they cover this under a warranty?
> >
> >
> > Thanks - Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Dan Gallagher
> > http://www.evalbum.com/3854
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Elcon-PFC-1500-Died-tp4659099.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
> archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> > |
> > | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>|
>| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
>| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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  #7  
Old 11-03-2012, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

You missed the point, the larger chargers allow you to charge at a Level 2 or
Level 1 charger. It would be rude for a EV to take up a long time at a
public charger using 110vac and maybe 6amp. I can tell you don't use the
public chargers, cause this is a real problem and it still boils down to
money. Look at the production cars and try to follow their example. If not,
the resale value of your EV will be in the toilet. Look at the garbage on
ebay and you can see what I am talking about. This brings up another point,
at the recent Plug-in-America event in Cupertino I was appalled at the cars
that were there being driven by all those on the forums claiming knowledge
of conversions. Charging cords of 12ga dragging on the ground, etc. I have
never seen such sloppy work, yet those same people are all over the forums
miss leading those that really need help and don't know what they are doing.
I wont mention names as they know who I am talking about. This in not only
my opinion, but is shared by most all the students I have had for over 5
years.



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  #8  
Old 11-03-2012, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

You may want to consider 2 chargers in different locations. A few of the NEV
cars and a couple of production cars, like the Tesla, use 2 chargers. Word
of advice, DONOT use a 110vac charger that uses over 15amp, otherwise you
cannot use a public charger. The advantage of the Elcon is that you can use
both 110vac and 220vac. However, the programming must be setup to limit the
110vac as I mentioned above. A 16kw pack can be charged with a charger
exceeding 20amp.



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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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  #9  
Old 11-03-2012, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

Get-rich-nonsense! Man are you out to lunch dis- connected from the industry
which I have been a part of for a long time. How about coming down to my
class so that the students can as you a few questions concerning your
mi-statement. When would you be available next week?



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  #10  
Old 11-03-2012, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Elcon PFC 1500 Died

Hi Bill,

I have never disconnected the DC side under load, so I know that wasn't the issue. In fact, my PFC30 failed both times while about halfway done charging. It seems due to heat build up. Once was using a standard dryer socket at work. The second time was using a J1772 EVSE at work. Neither of those cases was using a generator (and I have never used one to charge my car).

I would be very interested to know why it tends to fail. If it happens again...I'll probably fix it again, but also get a different charger. It's sort of a bummer, as I really want to support Manzanita, as they have done great things to advance home brew EVs.

corbin


[quote] Bill Dube <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> There are only two reasons that I am aware that can cause a Manzanita
> charger to fail:
> 1) Disconnect the DC side under load.Even briefly. (Doesn't kill them
> every time, but often.)
> 2) Low budget PM generator for AC source. They _really_ don't like
> this for some reason.
>
> I have been running these chargers for many many years and have only
> managed to wound one once. It was my own fault for rigging up a goofy
> temporary jumper cable output that had a loose connection.
>
> If you have been running your Manzanita charger from a low-budget
> permanent magnet generator, then you can expect problems. Sometimes
> after the fact. I'll guess that the waveform or the power factor from
> the PM generator under full load is so weird that the charger
> magnetics overheat. Perhaps someone else has investigated more fully
> and has pinpointed the exact root cause.
>
> Bill D.
>
> At 05:08 PM 11/2/2012, you wrote:
>> Hi Dan,
>> Not an elcon, but my Manzanita has had several similar problems. Details here:
>>
>> http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2012/09/plug-bug-pfc-30-charger-failed-again/
>>
>> Unfortunately, I don't recommend people use the Manzanita Micro
>> PFC-30 anymore. It has failed on me twice, for absolutely no reason.
>> I've been using it within the limits it is supposed to be rated for
>> -- 30 amps in -- although, I usually charge less because it
>> overheats and does thermal cutback (indicated by a blinking LED light).
>>
>> It was really easy to get Manzanita to fix it; however, each time it
>> wasn't covered by their warranty, and I had to pay out of pocket for
>> it. Each time I tried to get information on why it failed, but I
>> didn't get a definitive answer other than "overheating on the AC
>> line". I don't understand why I would get that condition.
>>
>> corbin
>>
>>
>> On Nov 2, 2012, at 1:55 PM, Danpatgal <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Troubles again ... my upgraded Leopard's charger, an Elcon PFC
>> 1500, decided
>>> to quit on me. The LED doesn't blink, the relay closes (from my Lithiumate
>>> Lite BMS), but I get no current. It died, as far as I can tell, when
>>> charging off of a standard 120vac just 10% from reaching a full
>> charge on my
>>> 120vdc pack.
>>>
>>> I'm depressed to think that I have to pack it up and ship it back to
>>> California after getting only about 5 full cycles out of it after they
>>> reprogrammed it for the 38xCALB 130ah lithium pack. (They reprogrammed it
>>> to curve 520, to 137 volts).
>>>
>>> 1.- What's the typical reason for such a failure? (I'm not ruling out my
>>> doing something stupid / or at least not good for it - though it seems like
>>> I would not have gotten the 5 cycles out of it if I had).
>>>
>>> 2.- Does anybody have experience with this kind problem with their Elcon?
>>> If yes, are there some things I can do to diagnose (or better yet fix), the
>>> problem?
>>>
>>> 3.- If it is the AC fuse (as support at Elcon has suggested), is this
>>> something I could try on my own instead of being down for a
>> couple weeks and
>>> paying for shipping? (I realize this is more a question for
>> Elcon and would
>>> perhaps void any warranty [see q#4 below], but wondered if anyone had tried
>>> it).
>>>
>>> 4.- Should they cover this under a warranty?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks - Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Dan Gallagher
>>> http://www.evalbum.com/3854
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Elcon-PFC-1500-Died-tp4659099.html
>>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
>> archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>>> |
>>> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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