[EVDL List]

Looking for guidance on choosing a donor vehicle. Need 4 passenger capacity
(2 adults), 60 mile range, 50 mph. Like extended cab for utility and
battery capacity and small car for lighter weight and range.

I am also torn between buying somebody else's problems and creating my own
(I am a newbie). Does buying a kit from someone like Wilderness prevent a
lot of errors? Or is there still plenty of room for screw ups?

Thank you for your help.

Larry

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[EVDL List]

I have built a VW Golf and I have built a small Toyota pickup. The
small truck was a much much better conversion platform.
http://www.evalbum.com/3175

The small trucks will handle the weight of the batteries much better
than a small car. The steering and the brakes are also much stronger
for the heavy load it will be packing around.

The Ford Ranger or the S-10 or the Tocoma are all good conversion
platforms. Find one that has good sheet metal and stay away from any
rust buckets and you should be fine. The front engine read drive of
the small trucks is also much easier to work on than the FWD cars.

I would stay the hell away from those cheap ass china made motors and
look for a Netgain instead. The Netgain motor is much stronger than
most.

KJD






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[EVDL List]

One question:

How big are the other two passengers? I used to own an S-10 extended cab
pickup. The two jump seats were facing each other so the passengers rode
sideways. It could seat 4, but nobody liked sitting in the back; young
tweens, or adults. It was OK for 5-6 year olds. If you're talking about a
larger pickup, the extended cab has regular seats, but you will need a lot
more batteries to get the range in the larger vehicle.

I bought an already completed conversion. (www.evalbum.com/2778). I did
inherit some issues, but for the most part, it has worked out well.

In my case, I had doubts about my ability to follow through with a large
conversion project in a timely manner. I have been able to modify and
update the completed vehicle as smaller projects, because those are more
weekend projects I can fit into my schedule.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf Of Larry Fisher
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:35 PM
> To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
> Subject: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car
>
> Looking for guidance on choosing a donor vehicle. Need 4 passenger
capacity
> (2 adults), 60 mile range, 50 mph. Like extended cab for utility and
battery
> capacity and small car for lighter weight and range.
>
> I am also torn between buying somebody else's problems and creating my
> own (I am a newbie). Does buying a kit from someone like Wilderness
> prevent a lot of errors? Or is there still plenty of room for screw ups?
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Larry
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-
> list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Extended-cab-vs-small-car-
> tp3903625p3903625.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
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> |
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[EVDL List]

4 door tracker/sidekick! Truck frame, small size.

Brett

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Larry Fisher
[quote]<xxx@xxx.xxx>wrote:

> Looking for guidance on choosing a donor vehicle. Need 4 passenger
> capacity
> (2 adults), 60 mile range, 50 mph. Like extended cab for utility and
> battery capacity and small car for lighter weight and range.
>
> I am also torn between buying somebody else's problems and creating my own
> (I am a newbie). Does buying a kit from someone like Wilderness prevent a
> lot of errors? Or is there still plenty of room for screw ups?
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Larry
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Extended-cab-vs-small-car-tp3903625p3903625.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
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> |
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[EVDL List]

[quote] Jay Summet <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> I have a standard cab (2 adults, possibly 3 skinny adults) S-10 with
> Lead Acid batteries (20 six volt) and I like the carrying capacity of
> the truck frame with all that lead. It handles and breaks reasonably,
> but feels like I am carrying around a load of gravel all the time.
> Luckily the truck is designed to carry around that extra weight.
>
> My max range is around 30-35 miles unless I really push the batteries to
> death, and even then I doubt I'd make it farther than 40 miles. (In
> practice, I've never driven over 30 miles.) You could do slightly
> better with low Rolling Resistance tires and some optimizations, but.....
>
> I doubt you can get a 60 mile range for 4 passengers unless you go with
> lithium cells. (or a specialty custom auto designed to hold a lot of
> weight in lead batteries) Either will be expensive. Most cars that are
> converted give up the rear passenger seats for the batteries to get 60
> mile ranges...
>
> It would possibly be the same cost to buy a Leaf and you may get better
> comfort (AC/heat/nav system, all instrumentation integrated) and
> warranty with that option.
>
> That being said, if you buy a used conversion that uses lead acid
> batteries and gets a 30 mile range (for $4,000-$10,000) and then upgrade
> it with a large lithium pack (another $10,000+ ??? WAG....) you could
> get your sixty mile range for a bit less than a new leaf. (approx
> $35-40K - potential tax rebates) but you'd be doing more work.
>
> Jay
>
>
All good points. I'll add a couple more. If buying or converting a truck,
you really want all the lead to be carried low. I personally wouldn't
consider a truck conversion that didn't carry its batteries under the bed,
with a tilt bed for access. And I'd also try to stuff as many under the
hood as possible (maybe 6?) to increase range and help maintain a reasonable
F/R balance. If considering a Ford Ranger, rumor has it the offset
driveshaft eats up valuable battery space under the bed.

Chris
LeSled is for sale!
www.evalbum.com/274
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[EVDL List]

On the Ranger I welded up the battery boxes for a conversion that Steve
Clunn did for someone & I got five, 6 volt batteries on one side of the
drive shaft & six on the other side & 11 behind the rear end with four up
front total of 26 batteries. the ones in the back next to the drive shaft
were really tight & took a lot of work to get them to clear the drive shaft
& rear end on that one side. after I was done welding I had to go back to
work so I never found out how many miles it was getting with 26 batteries!
Some time I would like to do a S10 to see how much more room it has in the
back for batteries, talk is that the frame rails are wider to make it easier
to fit them in. if u want more batteries I would go with the S10 extended
cab .

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Tromley
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 11:12 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

[quote] Jay Summet <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> I have a standard cab (2 adults, possibly 3 skinny adults) S-10 with
> Lead Acid batteries (20 six volt) and I like the carrying capacity of
> the truck frame with all that lead. It handles and breaks reasonably,
> but feels like I am carrying around a load of gravel all the time.
> Luckily the truck is designed to carry around that extra weight.
>
> My max range is around 30-35 miles unless I really push the batteries to
> death, and even then I doubt I'd make it farther than 40 miles. (In
> practice, I've never driven over 30 miles.) You could do slightly
> better with low Rolling Resistance tires and some optimizations, but.....
>
> I doubt you can get a 60 mile range for 4 passengers unless you go with
> lithium cells. (or a specialty custom auto designed to hold a lot of
> weight in lead batteries) Either will be expensive. Most cars that are
> converted give up the rear passenger seats for the batteries to get 60
> mile ranges...
>
> It would possibly be the same cost to buy a Leaf and you may get better
> comfort (AC/heat/nav system, all instrumentation integrated) and
> warranty with that option.
>
> That being said, if you buy a used conversion that uses lead acid
> batteries and gets a 30 mile range (for $4,000-$10,000) and then upgrade
> it with a large lithium pack (another $10,000+ ??? WAG....) you could
> get your sixty mile range for a bit less than a new leaf. (approx
> $35-40K - potential tax rebates) but you'd be doing more work.
>
> Jay
>
>
All good points. I'll add a couple more. If buying or converting a truck,
you really want all the lead to be carried low. I personally wouldn't
consider a truck conversion that didn't carry its batteries under the bed,
with a tilt bed for access. And I'd also try to stuff as many under the
hood as possible (maybe 6?) to increase range and help maintain a reasonable
F/R balance. If considering a Ford Ranger, rumor has it the offset
driveshaft eats up valuable battery space under the bed.

Chris
LeSled is for sale!
www.evalbum.com/274
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[EVDL List]

several things I'll mention...

- Sit in an extended cab small truck if you haven't. The rear seats are =
mostly decorative, imo.

- 60 mile range is lithium, or a truck full of lead that handles like a dum=
p truck.

- If you are going lithium, then even a small car will have the payload cap=
acity you need.

- someone else's problems could be a big issue! Definitely look at the c=
onversion first if you can. Or at least ask lots of questions and get an=
idea about who did it and how they did it.

- Wilderness EV should not be your benchmark. However,even with the b=
est kit in the world, most of the room for error comes in the integration a=
nd installation anyway. Like running/making cables, wire layout, diagram=
s, component/battery locations etc.

- you can probably buy a converted car for less than the cost of the compon=
ents. Sad, but true.

Personally, I bought an already converted car. Small 4 seater (well, 5 i=
f they are real small) that was originally converted with lead, but later u=
pgraded to 150v 130ah lithium (should have about 60 mile range). It need=
s some work, but the initial build was solid. Good component choices and=
workmanship. I save myself the initial design and build, but still feel=
like I'm getting to know the car intimately by doing a rebuild of most of =
the parts. For *me* it is a good compromise. I wanted to do a diy con=
version, but really don't have the time to do it right. This car is goin=
g to end up taking me about a month to get it back on the road, then will l=
et me tackle small fixer projects down the road as I go. At the rate I w=
ork on it (an hour or two here or there, as I have time) it would probably =
take me a year to complete a build from scratch.

david.


________________________________
From: Larry Fisher <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:34 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

Looking for guidance on choosing a donor vehicle. Need 4 passenger capac=
ity
(2 adults), 60 mile range, 50 mph. Like extended cab for utility and
battery capacity and small car for lighter weight and range.

I am also torn between buying somebody else's problems and creating my own
(I am a newbie). Does buying a kit from someone like Wilderness prevent a
lot of errors? Or is there still plenty of room for screw ups?

Thank you for your help.

Larry

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.41352=
9.n4.nabble.com/Extended-cab-vs-small-car-tp3903625p3903625.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabb=
le.com.

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| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
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[EVDL List]

Larry and All,
Lots of good comments on this thread, but like another one that I
posted about, it has been discussed a lot, so you can check the
archives, or...

My daily driver is an extended cab 2 WD S10, and although I have done
60 miles per charge, it was with a lot of EV driving experience, like
an "egg shell under the go pedal", etc., very near GVWR with 24 T-145
floodies at 144 volts, and 45 to 55 mph speeds. And if you regularly
deep cycle the pack, your cycle life goes down and you cost per mile
goes up. I typically did 30 miles per charge with Opportunity Charging
at my destinations, and got over 20K miles out of that pack. If you
really need 60 MPC and can't opportunity charge, then lithium-ion
batteries?

Also, as someone else asked, do you have kids? When mine were
teenagers they almost killed each other when they were both forced to
be in those center facing jump seats! Even having one seat up, it was
tight for one adult in the back.

Another thing that I've said before on this list, I liked having two
EV's, one for utility, and one for fun (truck and RX-7), as it can be
hard to do EVerything you want to do with just one.

Finally, as others have commented on and one of the reasons for
converting an S10, you'll want the lead down low under the bed, and
the S10 frame rails are wider than the Ranger, the drive-shaft is
centered (so you can have symmetrical boxes on each side), and both
rear shocks are aft mounted (pre '94 gen one). Finally, I wanted room
in my poly battery boxes for one inch insulation, so I could only get
four floodies on each side of the drive shaft, and eight behind the
rear-end. If you are in a warm climate, convert a regular cab
long-bed, or use battery heaters, you might be able to squeeze more
in.
Hope this helps,
BB
-- =

Suck Amps,
Dave "Battery Boy" Hawkins
Check out our website!
http://bbevs.com/

> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:34:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Larry Fisher
>
> Looking for guidance on choosing a donor vehicle. Need 4 passenger cap=
acity
> (2 adults), 60 mile range, 50 mph. Like extended cab for utility and
> battery capacity and small car for lighter weight and range.
>
> I am also torn between buying somebody else's problems and creating my own
> (I am a newbie). Does buying a kit from someone like Wilderness preven=
t a
> lot of errors? Or is there still plenty of room for screw ups?
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Larry

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[EVDL List]

Thanks all for your time and concern. My daughters are 9 and 11. Most of
the miles will be put on by my wife and daughters as they travel about on
their Unschooling routines about 30 miles a day. I think I am leaning
toward 4 passenger car and if we need to go to Harrisonburg 26 miles away we
will charge up for 4 hours or more on that end before returning. Trying to
get a utility vehicle out of the bargain is asking too much as is 60 mile
range apparently.

I am looking at Le Car and a Solectria Force. The Force is close to home
and a 97 so is the probable choice. Both need batteries so I could go
Lithium but probably out of range costwise.

My project will also include integrating the car battery bank with solar pv
roof installation providing backup power to the house during outages. This
will entail creating 48v banks within the car to be compatible with solar
system. Then switching quickly back to series for road use. Any advice?

Larry


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[quote]On 14 Oct 2011 at 19:56, Larry Fisher wrote:

> The Force is close to home and a 97 so is the probable choice. Both
> need batteries so I could go Lithium but probably out of range
> costwise.

Several Force owners have gone down the lithium road, so you may be able to
get some guidance if that's your objective. More info here :

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev/

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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