[EVDL List]

Hi,

I've been doing a little research on the J1772 Standard since Tucson is
going to be one of the first cities to have chargers with the J1772 plug
installed around town (see
http://www.pagnet.org/documents/blind/AncmntPR03-06-091.pdf and
http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/03/nissan-evs-head.html for more details).

They are going to be installed by http://www.ecotality.com/ along with their
sister company http://www.etecevs.com/home.php. I've talked with Colin Read
and Stephen Schey who are pretty close lipped about what the plug is, the
specs on it, who is going to produce the charger and the price of it. All
this is very understandable since the protocol spec for the plug is not yet
written, or at least it is not yet available to the public (see
http://www.sae.org/servlets/works/committeeHome.do?comtID=TEVHYB3 and clik
on the Documents list, it is empty). You can get the old standard, written
in 91 or so, but it does not incorporate the fast charging that is in the
draft that Evan mentioned
(http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/hevtest/071608evchargingreq.pdf). And
it is the fast charging that this new standard is supposed to incorporate.

The other link that Evan gave
http://www.ecosilly.com/2008/12/02/coulomb-technologies-showcasing-sae-j1772-networked-charging-stations-for-plug-in-vehicles/
is the Yazaki plug that in all likelihood is very close to the plug that
will be produced, maybe millimeters different, but no significant changes.

Our problem is the 2 sensor plugs, what kind of sensors are they? Some
people in Phoenix and some of the EAA board members think that it will be a
relatively easy system to backwards engineer so that all we need to do is
get a J1772 Female receptacle, associate some electronics with it that will
fool the sensors and have another plug at the other end that we will plug
into our EV.

So again we will have to make an adapter plug/box for the J1772 Standard.

Here is a link that shows the variations in EV plugs today.
http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/evplugs.html

Rush
Tucson AZ


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Thanks for that Rush, good info!

[quote] Rush <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been doing a little research on the J1772 Standard since Tucson is
> going to be one of the first cities to have chargers with the J1772 plug
> installed around town (see
> http://www.pagnet.org/documents/blind/AncmntPR03-06-091.pdf and
> http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/03/nissan-evs-head.html for more details).
>
> They are going to be installed by http://www.ecotality.com/ along with their
> sister company http://www.etecevs.com/home.php. I've talked with Colin Read
> and Stephen Schey who are pretty close lipped about what the plug is, the
> specs on it, who is going to produce the charger and the price of it. All
> this is very understandable since the protocol spec for the plug is not yet
> written, or at least it is not yet available to the public (see
> http://www.sae.org/servlets/works/committeeHome.do?comtID=TEVHYB3 and clik
> on the Documents list, it is empty). You can get the old standard, written
> in 91 or so, but it does not incorporate the fast charging that is in the
> draft that Evan mentioned
> (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/hevtest/071608evchargingreq.pdf). And
> it is the fast charging that this new standard is supposed to incorporate.
>
> The other link that Evan gave
> http://www.ecosilly.com/2008/12/02/coulomb-technologies-showcasing-sae-j1772-networked-charging-stations-for-plug-in-vehicles/
> is the Yazaki plug that in all likelihood is very close to the plug that
> will be produced, maybe millimeters different, but no significant changes.
>
> Our problem is the 2 sensor plugs, what kind of sensors are they? Some
> people in Phoenix and some of the EAA board members think that it will be a
> relatively easy system to backwards engineer so that all we need to do is
> get a J1772 Female receptacle, associate some electronics with it that will
> fool the sensors and have another plug at the other end that we will plug
> into our EV.
>
> So again we will have to make an adapter plug/box for the J1772 Standard.
>
> Here is a link that shows the variations in EV plugs today.
> http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/evplugs.html
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[EVDL List]

It really doesn't matter what kind of plug is used at the vehicle end.
Your cord will fit that. The real concern is what are the requirements
for the other end.

I guess I don't really care what they come up with for a standard. The
likelihood that any will be installed around here in the next 10 years
is about zero.

If the capability to plug into a standard 15 amp duplex outlet is not
retained, I sure wouldn=92t buy the car. The real need for electric cars
is ubiquitous charging stations. You are going to be hard pressed to
convince your barber or food store or hardware store owner to install
a $1000 charging station. It isn=92t that hard to get him to put in a
standard outlet that he can also make use of.

[quote]<xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>

>> Here is a link that shows the variations in EV plugs today.
>> http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/evplugs.html
>>
>> Rush
>> Tucson AZ
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________




-- =

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm

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[EVDL List]

[quote]Rush wrote:

> I've been doing a little research on the J1772 Standard

> Our problem is the 2 sensor plugs, what kind of sensors are
> they?

Are you referring to the 2 signal pins on the proposed J1772 connector?

> So again we will have to make an adapter plug/box for the
> J1772 Standard.

Yes, this will be the case. What I've heard, and obviously it can change again before it is "official", is that the J1772 charge outlet (grid side) will provide a signal that tells the charger how much AC current is available; the vehicle inlet (charger side) has to provide a signal to the J1772 outlet asking it to turn on and telling it whether or not the vehicle uses batteries that require the charger area to be ventilated (so the station can turn on the ventilation fans, or refuse to charge if it cannot provide ventilation).

As I recall the basic signal between the vehicle and outlet that lets the outlet know to turn on the juice and lets the vehicle know that it has been plugged in is a single wire and just requires the vehicle to look for the right signal voltage level and apply the proper load (simple resistor) to let the charging station/outlet know a vehicle is plugged in and wants to charge.

As I recall, the signal from the charge station to the vehicle that tells the charger how much current the outlet can provide is a PWM signal whose duty cycle varies in a defined way according to the amount of current available.

Evan Tuer wrote:

> You're right, it's not an either-or situation. If new EVs
> come with this connector, it's not going to stop you charging
> in your garage - my cars came with an Avcon cable under the
> seat with a standard 16A plug on the other end, the new ones
> aren't going to be any different.

Maybe, maybe not. The new proposal requires the outlet to "talk" to the car so the car knows it is plugged in and so it knows how much current it is allowed to draw from the outlet.

Your production EV charger will not run unless the vehicle recieves the appropriate signals from the outlet. Doesn't make it impossible, just means you'll need a more "intelligent" adapter cord, and in North America at least, you'll probably be in violation of the electrical code using such a cord to connect an EV to an outlet bigger than 120V 20A (Level I). ;^>

> And just as with the Avcon, you'll be able to make use of new
> public charging stations using it, provided you buy the right
> socket and fit the appropriate resistor and diode, or whatever.

Yes, I think this is likely. Again, if the public charging station delivers more than the 120V 20A allowed by Level I charging, then you would likely be in violation of the electrical code if you plugged in an EV unless the charger or adapter box/cord were compliant with the requirements of J1772 (i.e. not just faking out the signal required to get the outlet to turn on, but also respecting the signal from the outlet telling you the maximum current you may draw at any time). Bear in mind that the amount of current available from the outlet may vary while you are connected, and your charger is expected to reduce its draw as required to remain at or below the current the outlet says you can have.

Cheers,

Roger.

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[EVDL List]

[quote] Roger Stockton <xxx@xxx.xxx>wrote:

> .......and in North America at least, you'll probably be in violation of
> the electrical code using such a cord to connect an EV to an outlet bigger
> than 120V 20A (Level I). ;^>
>

Can you cite the exact NEC code section that says this? I'd like to read
the actual code, rather than various people's interpretations of it (I find
that quite often, it does NOT say what people claim it does, when you
actually read it -- for example one inspector claimed that all grid-tie
inverters must have a light on the front that illuminates to show a ground
fault -- when the actual code just said that the inverter must "clearly
indicate" a ground fault, with no mention of exactly how).

Z
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[quote]Zeke Yewdall wrote:

> > .......and in North America at least, you'll probably be in
> > violation of the electrical code using such a cord to connect
> > an EV to an outlet bigger than 120V 20A (Level I). ;^>
>
> Can you cite the exact NEC code section that says this?

NEC Article 625.

Don't rely on your or my interpretation of it; I can tell you that the legal department of an automotive OEM to whom Delta-Q sells chargers is confident enough in this itnerpretation that they are not allowed to tell their customers that the charger on their EV can be pluggerd into 240V as well as 120V.

Cheers,

Roger.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard


[quote]> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>
>> > .......and in North America at least, you'll probably be in
>> > violation of the electrical code using such a cord to connect
>> > an EV to an outlet bigger than 120V 20A (Level I). ;^>
>>
>> Can you cite the exact NEC code section that says this?
>
> NEC Article 625.

Ah! THERE it is! Wasn't THAT the one rushed in to retard EV
development?Make chargers essentually USELESS to the conversioin crowd. Like
the forgotten Avcons at the Morristown RR station in NJ? The RV industry
probably told them to go to Hell?
>
> Don't rely on your or my interpretation of it; I can tell you that the
> legal department of an automotive OEM to whom Delta-Q sells chargers is
> confident enough in this itnerpretation that they are not allowed to tell
> their customers that the charger on their EV can be pluggerd into 240V as
> well as 120V.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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That means that Delta Q's CAN be "pluggerd" into 240 here in the
colonies!?They cover their ass by not mentioning it?Wes skirred to try it!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard


[quote]> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>
>> > .......and in North America at least, you'll probably be in
>> > violation of the electrical code using such a cord to connect
>> > an EV to an outlet bigger than 120V 20A (Level I). ;^>
>>
>> Can you cite the exact NEC code section that says this?
>
> NEC Article 625.
>
> Don't rely on your or my interpretation of it; I can tell you that the
> legal department of an automotive OEM to whom Delta-Q sells chargers is
> confident enough in this itnerpretation that they are not allowed to tell
> their customers that the charger on their EV can be pluggerd into 240V as
> well as 120V.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>

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