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  #21  
Old 07-28-2012, 03:26 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

Bill Dennis wrote
>
> It's rather disappointing to have a charger
> billed as capable of 30A that can't even produce 25A at room temperature.
>
Remember that the 30 A limit applies to the output AND to the input. If you
are charging from 110 VAC, then you are possibly running into effectively
the 30 A limit at the input. (The 30 A may well translate to a different AC
RMS current at the mains input.) You should get the full 30 A output if you
charge from 240 VAC.

My apologies if you're already charging from 240 V.

Disclaimer: I don't have a Manzanita charger, or 110 V mains.




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  #22  
Old 07-28-2012, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

Yes, I have a PFC30 and posted on this a couple years ago. What is the
ambient temperature Bill? I found that when ambient was in upper 90's F I
could run at 30A for somewhere around 25-30 minutes iirc before it started
limiting current due to over temp. I could run 34A for around 15-20 minutes
iirc. I can usually run 28A without limiting with temp in upper 90's F.
Surprised yours is limiting at as low as 20A - unless your ambient is much
higher. Maybe some problem with the fan? Got a mouse nest in there? :^))



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  #23  
Old 08-01-2012, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

Bill, you said you don't have an ammeter on it, and have set the
current knob to 65%.

I have a PFC-20 buck enhanced and it's flat out (at 30A) anywhere
above 50% on the dial when I charge a 120V pack off 230VAC.

Just saying, you should probably check with a meter before announcing a fault


[quote] Bill Dennis <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> I'll fire off an email to Rick. It's rather disappointing to have a charger
> billed as capable of 30A that can't even produce 25A at room temperature.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
> Of Dave
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:49 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me
>
> I should add another comment to my post about my charger cutting back. I'm
> pretty sure it's acting normal and there's nothing wrong. Mine is an older
> unit and might not be as sophisticated as newer models. I know Rich has made
> improvements since mine was produced, and I'm sure they handle heat better
> now. But mine is doing what it needs to do to live a long life, and I'm good
> with that. If not, all I have to do is buy a newer model. Trust in the
> Madman.
>
> Dave
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Roger Stockton <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> Bill Dennis wrote:
>>
>>> Pack isn't reaching its voltage limit. Cutoff voltage is 124.5V.
>>> PFC-30 goes into current limit even if pack voltage is 121V or 122V.
>>> Yellow limits light is blinking. From the PFC-30 manual:
>>>
>>> "If the yellow LIMITS LED is blinking, then it is indicating that
>>> there is an over temperature condition and the charger is in thermal
> cutback mode."
>>
>> Sounds to me that there are two possibilities:
>>
>> 1. the charger is lying to you
>>
>> 2. it isn't
>>
>> If the fan(s) are operating normally, and the ambient temperature is
> moderate (as you've already stated), then it is still possible that the
> charger could be overheating internally as a result of dust/etc. build-up on
> internal heatsink fins or devices, or as a result of a heat generating
> component no longer being fixed firmly to the heat dissipating surface, or
> degradation of the thermal grease or other heat transfer medium between the
> device and heatsink.
>>
>> My first assumption would be that the charger is telling (indicating) the
> truth, and that something inside is getting hotter than it should be under
> the circumstances. I would remove the charger and open it (ensure all caps
> have fully discharged), and vacuum/clean out any dust bunnies that have
> accumulated. You might also check that all devices mounted to heatsinks are
> securely fastened. If it continues to indicate overheating after this, it
> may need a trip back to Manzanita Micro for evaluation and service.
>>
>> You might want to contact Rich before opening the charger to remove and
> dust bunnies as he may immediately recognise the
> overheating-indication-when-there-shouldn't-be-any as a symptom of a known
> failure mode ("failure" could include dust bunny or loose screw), and either
> advise you of exactly what to check/correct, or to send the unit in for
> service.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roger.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> |
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  #24  
Old 08-01-2012, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

I think what he was saying, and I missed it the first time, is that the
flashing yellow indicates a fault. If it just goes into current limit at
max current doesn't the yellow light stay on solid?

[quote] Evan Tuer <evan.xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> Bill, you said you don't have an ammeter on it, and have set the
> current knob to 65%.
>
> I have a PFC-20 buck enhanced and it's flat out (at 30A) anywhere
> above 50% on the dial when I charge a 120V pack off 230VAC.
>
> Just saying, you should probably check with a meter before announcing a
> fault
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Bill Dennis <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> > I'll fire off an email to Rick. It's rather disappointing to have a
> charger
> > billed as capable of 30A that can't even produce 25A at room temperature.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf
> > Of Dave
> > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:49 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me
> >
> > I should add another comment to my post about my charger cutting back.
> I'm
> > pretty sure it's acting normal and there's nothing wrong. Mine is an
> older
> > unit and might not be as sophisticated as newer models. I know Rich has
> made
> > improvements since mine was produced, and I'm sure they handle heat
> better
> > now. But mine is doing what it needs to do to live a long life, and I'm
> good
> > with that. If not, all I have to do is buy a newer model. Trust in the
> > Madman.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Roger Stockton <xxx@xxx.xxx>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Bill Dennis wrote:
> >>
> >>> Pack isn't reaching its voltage limit. Cutoff voltage is 124.5V.
> >>> PFC-30 goes into current limit even if pack voltage is 121V or 122V.
> >>> Yellow limits light is blinking. From the PFC-30 manual:
> >>>
> >>> "If the yellow LIMITS LED is blinking, then it is indicating that
> >>> there is an over temperature condition and the charger is in thermal
> > cutback mode."
> >>
> >> Sounds to me that there are two possibilities:
> >>
> >> 1. the charger is lying to you
> >>
> >> 2. it isn't
> >>
> >> If the fan(s) are operating normally, and the ambient temperature is
> > moderate (as you've already stated), then it is still possible that the
> > charger could be overheating internally as a result of dust/etc.
> build-up on
> > internal heatsink fins or devices, or as a result of a heat generating
> > component no longer being fixed firmly to the heat dissipating surface,
> or
> > degradation of the thermal grease or other heat transfer medium between
> the
> > device and heatsink.
> >>
> >> My first assumption would be that the charger is telling (indicating)
> the
> > truth, and that something inside is getting hotter than it should be
> under
> > the circumstances. I would remove the charger and open it (ensure all
> caps
> > have fully discharged), and vacuum/clean out any dust bunnies that have
> > accumulated. You might also check that all devices mounted to heatsinks
> are
> > securely fastened. If it continues to indicate overheating after this,
> it
> > may need a trip back to Manzanita Micro for evaluation and service.
> >>
> >> You might want to contact Rich before opening the charger to remove and
> > dust bunnies as he may immediately recognise the
> > overheating-indication-when-there-shouldn't-be-any as a symptom of a
> known
> > failure mode ("failure" could include dust bunny or loose screw), and
> either
> > advise you of exactly what to check/correct, or to send the unit in for
> > service.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Roger.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> >> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> >> |
> >> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> >> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> >> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> >> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> > |
> > | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> > |
> > | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
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> |
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> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #25  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

The yellow LED is blinking, indicating that the charger is in thermal cutback. This happens within two to three minutes when the dial is above about half way. At the Madman's suggestion, I measured the air temperature at the charger fan intake. Yesterday, for example, the temperature was 82F. So the charger should not be going into thermal cutback at that point.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: Evan Tuer <evan.xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:58:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

Bill, you said you don't have an ammeter on it, and have set the
current knob to 65%.

I have a PFC-20 buck enhanced and it's flat out (at 30A) anywhere
above 50% on the dial when I charge a 120V pack off 230VAC.

Just saying, you should probably check with a meter before announcing a fault


[quote] Bill Dennis <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> I'll fire off an email to Rick. It's rather disappointing to have a charger
> billed as capable of 30A that can't even produce 25A at room temperature.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
> Of Dave
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:49 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me
>
> I should add another comment to my post about my charger cutting back. I'm
> pretty sure it's acting normal and there's nothing wrong. Mine is an older
> unit and might not be as sophisticated as newer models. I know Rich has made
> improvements since mine was produced, and I'm sure they handle heat better
> now. But mine is doing what it needs to do to live a long life, and I'm good
> with that. If not, all I have to do is buy a newer model. Trust in the
> Madman.
>
> Dave
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Roger Stockton <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> Bill Dennis wrote:
>>
>>> Pack isn't reaching its voltage limit. Cutoff voltage is 124.5V.
>>> PFC-30 goes into current limit even if pack voltage is 121V or 122V.
>>> Yellow limits light is blinking. From the PFC-30 manual:
>>>
>>> "If the yellow LIMITS LED is blinking, then it is indicating that
>>> there is an over temperature condition and the charger is in thermal
> cutback mode."
>>
>> Sounds to me that there are two possibilities:
>>
>> 1. the charger is lying to you
>>
>> 2. it isn't
>>
>> If the fan(s) are operating normally, and the ambient temperature is
> moderate (as you've already stated), then it is still possible that the
> charger could be overheating internally as a result of dust/etc. build-up on
> internal heatsink fins or devices, or as a result of a heat generating
> component no longer being fixed firmly to the heat dissipating surface, or
> degradation of the thermal grease or other heat transfer medium between the
> device and heatsink.
>>
>> My first assumption would be that the charger is telling (indicating) the
> truth, and that something inside is getting hotter than it should be under
> the circumstances. I would remove the charger and open it (ensure all caps
> have fully discharged), and vacuum/clean out any dust bunnies that have
> accumulated. You might also check that all devices mounted to heatsinks are
> securely fastened. If it continues to indicate overheating after this, it
> may need a trip back to Manzanita Micro for evaluation and service.
>>
>> You might want to contact Rich before opening the charger to remove and
> dust bunnies as he may immediately recognise the
> overheating-indication-when-there-shouldn't-be-any as a symptom of a known
> failure mode ("failure" could include dust bunny or loose screw), and either
> advise you of exactly what to check/correct, or to send the unit in for
> service.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roger.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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_______________________________________________
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #26  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:16 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

Not on mine - solid yellow means the voltage limit is reached (i.e at
the end of charge).

Blinking yellow is temperature cutback but it's normal when it's
trying to deliver full current - it may only be cutting back by an amp
or two depending on the ambient temperature. If it properly overheats
you get the red LED (never seen that though).


[quote] Mike Willmon <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> I think what he was saying, and I missed it the first time, is that the
> flashing yellow indicates a fault. If it just goes into current limit at
> max current doesn't the yellow light stay on solid?
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Evan Tuer <evan.xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> Bill, you said you don't have an ammeter on it, and have set the
>> current knob to 65%.
>>
>> I have a PFC-20 buck enhanced and it's flat out (at 30A) anywhere
>> above 50% on the dial when I charge a 120V pack off 230VAC.
>>
>> Just saying, you should probably check with a meter before announcing a
>> fault
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Bill Dennis <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>> > I'll fire off an email to Rick. It's rather disappointing to have a
>> charger
>> > billed as capable of 30A that can't even produce 25A at room temperature.
>> >
>> > Bill
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
>> Behalf
>> > Of Dave
>> > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:49 PM
>> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me
>> >
>> > I should add another comment to my post about my charger cutting back.
>> I'm
>> > pretty sure it's acting normal and there's nothing wrong. Mine is an
>> older
>> > unit and might not be as sophisticated as newer models. I know Rich has
>> made
>> > improvements since mine was produced, and I'm sure they handle heat
>> better
>> > now. But mine is doing what it needs to do to live a long life, and I'm
>> good
>> > with that. If not, all I have to do is buy a newer model. Trust in the
>> > Madman.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Roger Stockton <xxx@xxx.xxx>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bill Dennis wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Pack isn't reaching its voltage limit. Cutoff voltage is 124.5V.
>> >>> PFC-30 goes into current limit even if pack voltage is 121V or 122V.
>> >>> Yellow limits light is blinking. From the PFC-30 manual:
>> >>>
>> >>> "If the yellow LIMITS LED is blinking, then it is indicating that
>> >>> there is an over temperature condition and the charger is in thermal
>> > cutback mode."
>> >>
>> >> Sounds to me that there are two possibilities:
>> >>
>> >> 1. the charger is lying to you
>> >>
>> >> 2. it isn't
>> >>
>> >> If the fan(s) are operating normally, and the ambient temperature is
>> > moderate (as you've already stated), then it is still possible that the
>> > charger could be overheating internally as a result of dust/etc.
>> build-up on
>> > internal heatsink fins or devices, or as a result of a heat generating
>> > component no longer being fixed firmly to the heat dissipating surface,
>> or
>> > degradation of the thermal grease or other heat transfer medium between
>> the
>> > device and heatsink.
>> >>
>> >> My first assumption would be that the charger is telling (indicating)
>> the
>> > truth, and that something inside is getting hotter than it should be
>> under
>> > the circumstances. I would remove the charger and open it (ensure all
>> caps
>> > have fully discharged), and vacuum/clean out any dust bunnies that have
>> > accumulated. You might also check that all devices mounted to heatsinks
>> are
>> > securely fastened. If it continues to indicate overheating after this,
>> it
>> > may need a trip back to Manzanita Micro for evaluation and service.
>> >>
>> >> You might want to contact Rich before opening the charger to remove and
>> > dust bunnies as he may immediately recognise the
>> > overheating-indication-when-there-shouldn't-be-any as a symptom of a
>> known
>> > failure mode ("failure" could include dust bunny or loose screw), and
>> either
>> > advise you of exactly what to check/correct, or to send the unit in for
>> > service.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> Roger.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> >> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> >> |
>> >> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
>> >> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> >> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> >> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> >> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> > |
>> > | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
>> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #27  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

On my PFC 30 the flashing yellow LED does indicate a cutback due to over
temperature.

I was recently talking with Rich about this issue concerning my old PFC 30
and he told me that they found that they had been a bit too conservative on
some of the internal temp limits on this model. They were cutting back too
early. This is an issue specific to the PFC 30.

He suggested I bring it in for an upgrade to new limits and a higher power
fan to get much more current on warm days.

"Trust in the Madman!"



-----
-Otmar-

914 EV, California Poppy, Zilla research vehicle.
http://evcl.com/914/

The Zilla factory is at:
http://manzanitamicro.com/

Zilla Support is still at:
http://cafeelectric.com/Ssupport.php
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/PFC-30-Goes-All-Current-Limit-on-Me-tp4656822p4656920.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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  #28  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

You can download the PFC charger manual at Manzanitamicro.com to see what
theses indicators means and states as follows:

Yellow LED (Cutback indicator)

OFF - The charge is current limited either by the control knob or
internal current limit (AKA bulk stage)

BLINKING - Charger is in thermal cutback. Cooler air will make more
power.

ON solid - Charger is in voltage cutback (AKA acceptance stage)

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <evan.xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me


> Not on mine - solid yellow means the voltage limit is reached (i.e at
> the end of charge).
>
> Blinking yellow is temperature cutback but it's normal when it's
> trying to deliver full current - it may only be cutting back by an amp
> or two depending on the ambient temperature. If it properly overheats
> you get the red LED (never seen that though).
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Mike Willmon <xxx@xxx.xxx>
> wrote:
> > I think what he was saying, and I missed it the first time, is that the
> > flashing yellow indicates a fault. If it just goes into current limit
> > at
> > max current doesn't the yellow light stay on solid?
> >
> > [quote] Evan Tuer <evan.xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Bill, you said you don't have an ammeter on it, and have set the
> >> current knob to 65%.
> >>
> >> I have a PFC-20 buck enhanced and it's flat out (at 30A) anywhere
> >> above 50% on the dial when I charge a 120V pack off 230VAC.
> >>
> >> Just saying, you should probably check with a meter before announcing a
> >> fault
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Bill Dennis <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> >> > I'll fire off an email to Rick. It's rather disappointing to have a
> >> charger
> >> > billed as capable of 30A that can't even produce 25A at room
> >> > temperature.
> >> >
> >> > Bill
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> >> Behalf
> >> > Of Dave
> >> > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:49 PM
> >> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> >> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me
> >> >
> >> > I should add another comment to my post about my charger cutting
> >> > back.
> >> I'm
> >> > pretty sure it's acting normal and there's nothing wrong. Mine is an
> >> older
> >> > unit and might not be as sophisticated as newer models. I know Rich
> >> > has
> >> made
> >> > improvements since mine was produced, and I'm sure they handle heat
> >> better
> >> > now. But mine is doing what it needs to do to live a long life, and
> >> > I'm
> >> good
> >> > with that. If not, all I have to do is buy a newer model. Trust in
> >> > the
> >> > Madman.
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> >
> >> > On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Roger Stockton <xxx@xxx.xxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Bill Dennis wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Pack isn't reaching its voltage limit. Cutoff voltage is 124.5V.
> >> >>> PFC-30 goes into current limit even if pack voltage is 121V or
> >> >>> 122V.
> >> >>> Yellow limits light is blinking. From the PFC-30 manual:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "If the yellow LIMITS LED is blinking, then it is indicating that
> >> >>> there is an over temperature condition and the charger is in
> >> >>> thermal
> >> > cutback mode."
> >> >>
> >> >> Sounds to me that there are two possibilities:
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. the charger is lying to you
> >> >>
> >> >> 2. it isn't
> >> >>
> >> >> If the fan(s) are operating normally, and the ambient temperature is
> >> > moderate (as you've already stated), then it is still possible that
> >> > the
> >> > charger could be overheating internally as a result of dust/etc.
> >> build-up on
> >> > internal heatsink fins or devices, or as a result of a heat
> >> > generating
> >> > component no longer being fixed firmly to the heat dissipating
> >> > surface,
> >> or
> >> > degradation of the thermal grease or other heat transfer medium
> >> > between
> >> the
> >> > device and heatsink.
> >> >>
> >> >> My first assumption would be that the charger is telling
> >> >> (indicating)
> >> the
> >> > truth, and that something inside is getting hotter than it should be
> >> under
> >> > the circumstances. I would remove the charger and open it (ensure
> >> > all
> >> caps
> >> > have fully discharged), and vacuum/clean out any dust bunnies that
> >> > have
> >> > accumulated. You might also check that all devices mounted to
> >> > heatsinks
> >> are
> >> > securely fastened. If it continues to indicate overheating after
> >> > this,
> >> it
> >> > may need a trip back to Manzanita Micro for evaluation and service.
> >> >>
> >> >> You might want to contact Rich before opening the charger to remove
> >> >> and
> >> > dust bunnies as he may immediately recognise the
> >> > overheating-indication-when-there-shouldn't-be-any as a symptom of a
> >> known
> >> > failure mode ("failure" could include dust bunny or loose screw), and
> >> either
> >> > advise you of exactly what to check/correct, or to send the unit in
> >> > for
> >> > service.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >>
> >> >> Roger.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> >> >> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
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  #29  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

[quote] Bill Dennis <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> The yellow LED is blinking, indicating that the charger is in thermal cutback. This happens within two to three minutes when the dial is above about half way. At the Madman's
> suggestion, I measured the air temperature at the charger fan intake. Yesterday, for example, the temperature was 82F. So the charger should not be going into thermal
> cutback at that point.

Did Rich say it shouldn't? I'm interested because my PFC-20 has
exactly the same behaviour with the same pack and line voltages, and
I've never considered it a problem. It's not like it cuts back much,
and not at all when it's very cold weather. But maybe I have the same
bug

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  #30  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

See Otmar's reply of a couple minutes ago. Rich told me, as well, to send the charger back for an upgrade which will raise the thermal limit. The early PFC-30's (I didn't ask about other models) have this issue. Upgrade costs around $250, I think he said.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: Evan Tuer <evan.xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 12:31:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-30 Goes All Current-Limit on Me

[quote] Bill Dennis <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> The yellow LED is blinking, indicating that the charger is in thermal cutback. This happens within two to three minutes when the dial is above about half way. At the Madman's
> suggestion, I measured the air temperature at the charger fan intake. Yesterday, for example, the temperature was 82F. So the charger should not be going into thermal
> cutback at that point.

Did Rich say it shouldn't? I'm interested because my PFC-20 has
exactly the same behaviour with the same pack and line voltages, and
I've never considered it a problem. It's not like it cuts back much,
and not at all when it's very cold weather. But maybe I have the same
bug

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