Go Back  

DIY Electric Car Forums > General Forum > Chit Chat

Register Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 06-27-2012, 12:20 PM
frodus's Avatar
frodus frodus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,185
frodus will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

So you know voltage, but between those two points (before you removed it), how much current is flowing? Measuring time and voltage only gives a little bit.... usually there's little, if any actual Wh being put into the battery at it's upper voltage.
__________________
Travis Gintz
Electro Motive Force, LLC.
EV Consulting and parts Sales
Brammo Empulse R #24
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #32  
Old 06-27-2012, 09:25 PM
tomofreno tomofreno is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,958
tomofreno is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

Yeah, it turns out that LogView had time in x minutes, y seconds. Excel just appended y to x leaving out any units. I just assumed it was giving time in seconds, until I went back and checked my data sheet for that charge session and saw I added 110 Ah. No way it added that in 3314 seconds, less than one hour!

So the time is much longer than I showed in the plot and the current during the exponential part of the curve is much smaller due to the charger tapering back after hitting the limit voltage. I do not have a data log of the current, so cannot say how many Ah charge were added during that time. I made the mistaken assumption that since it came out to 3 Ah with the incorrect time scale, it must have not cut back current until very close to the end. That is why I chose this curve. I have other charge curves like this, but they all have the same problem, I don't know the current during the exponential part of the charge curve since the charger is significantly cutting back current by then.

I have individually charged cells with a power supply at constant current and measured the time, and from that can say that there is typically less than 1 Ah from 3.450V to 3.600V. Not data logging, just me with a timer, so no graph. I've posted that a number of times here over the last couple years. I think the stored Wh is exaggerated because the input R of a cell is increasing rapidly in that exponential part of the curve, so the product of Ah and the cell voltage is not a good measure of Wh added to the cell - more of that energy is being dissipated as heat in this part of the curve. Energy moves the car, but Ah is much more straight-forward.

Edit: collected new data and reported it here: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...1&postcount=62

Last edited by tomofreno; 05-05-2013 at 09:52 AM. Reason: update
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-28-2012, 05:42 AM
JRP3's Avatar
JRP3 JRP3 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central New York
Posts: 7,625
JRP3 will become famous soon enoughJRP3 will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

Jack Rickard has done a number of charge graphs for CALB and TS cells if anyone is motivated to look through his blog archive. Not it
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-28-2012, 08:21 AM
tomofreno tomofreno is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,958
tomofreno is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRP3 View Post
Jack Rickard has done a number of charge graphs for CALB and TS cells if anyone is motivated to look through his blog archive. Not it
Here's the link: http://jackrickard.blogspot.com/2009...cell-data.html
Scroll down, click on graph to enlarge. It is at 75A though so quite different voltages than you would see at more typical 10-20A.

Last edited by tomofreno; 06-28-2012 at 08:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-28-2012, 12:05 PM
HPEVS HPEVS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 84
HPEVS is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

Hi All,

Not to change the subject, but, we had a meeting this morning about building a dual siamese motor, like in the Jetta. This would have two of the AC35 stators and rotors, on a common shaft, in a single housing. I want to get some feedback and see if you think there would be interest out there for it. Preliminary power would be 190 Ft lbs of torque, 130 HP running on 144 volts. Base speed will be around 4500 RPM, so its going to pull to pretty high RPMs. What do you think? To those DIY veterans, how do we get the word out on DIY about this?

Thanks,
Brian
__________________
Brian Seymour
HPEVS
http://www.HPEVS.com

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-28-2012, 03:36 PM
JRP3's Avatar
JRP3 JRP3 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central New York
Posts: 7,625
JRP3 will become famous soon enoughJRP3 will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

If you could provide a general price point for the system we could start a poll in the motor section about interest in such a setup. Weight and length would be good to know as well, it might be hard to fit in some setups if it's too long. I assume this would use two of the new 500 amp controllers.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-28-2012, 04:25 PM
HPEVS HPEVS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 84
HPEVS is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRP3 View Post
If you could provide a general price point for the system we could start a poll in the motor section about interest in such a setup. Weight and length would be good to know as well, it might be hard to fit in some setups if it's too long. I assume this would use two of the new 500 amp controllers.

We should have an outline drawing in a few days. I think it will be 20" long though. Weight around 150 pounds. Retail price point for the whole system should be around $9000.00.

It can use the new 144 volt 500 amp, 96 volt 650 amp or 72 volt 550 amp.
__________________
Brian Seymour
HPEVS
http://www.HPEVS.com

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-28-2012, 05:12 PM
JRP3's Avatar
JRP3 JRP3 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central New York
Posts: 7,625
JRP3 will become famous soon enoughJRP3 will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

Here's the link to the new thread: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...evs-75886.html
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-03-2012, 12:44 PM
major's Avatar
major major is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 5,244
major will become famous soon enoughmajor will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPEVS View Post
Hi All, We are just getting going on DIY. My main goal here is to help with tech support and fill in the gaps in the information/disinformation out there.
Hi Brian,

Please tell me the OV trip point for the 1238-6501. Spec sheet says 48 to 80 Volts. Since I can build pack to a bit higher, just wondering

Thanks,

major
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-03-2012, 03:48 PM
Ivansgarage's Avatar
Ivansgarage Ivansgarage is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 194
Ivansgarage is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Hpevs ac50

Quote:
Originally Posted by major View Post
Hi Brian,

Please tell me the OV trip point for the 1238-6501. Spec sheet says 48 to 80 Volts. Since I can build pack to a bit higher, just wondering

Thanks,

major
Hey Major see post 23 24 i ask the same thing
__________________
Ivan's Garage 1999 Electric Sonoma Pickup
http://ivanbennett.com/forum
------------------------------------------------

This is just a test! Hand wound motors.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Share or Bookmark this

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 Green Web Publishing LLC
Ad Management by RedTyger