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  #11  
Old 06-17-2010, 02:44 AM
david4w david4w is offline
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Smile Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

Since this January I have been working for selling "reconditioned" lead acid batteries to overseas market ( out of Korea) . The raw material is waste battery. Our factories( as an exporter, I am dealing with two manufacturers,or reconditioners. ) are picking up "good looking" batteries from local collectors, car repair centers,and some from Japan also.
Good looking batteries are 15-20 percent of all scrap batteries
They use voltmeter and select the batteries which give voltage over 12 volts after quick check with the voltmeter.
This is how they recondition those batteries. They put distilled water as a refill because most of old batteries are low in electrolyte because of gassing.They put an additive called ECO2 as much as 10cc per each cell , putting 60cc for a size battery of 100 Ah capacity 12V.In case it is MF battery, they make holes on top of each cell center,inject 10cc after filling distilled water to the intermediate level to each cell by injector or spoid. Then they mix it well with plastic stirrer or hydrmeter.
They leave the battery for 3-4 hours for chemical reaction.Then they connect the battery terminals to a kind of smart charger, PROCHARGER.
After 5-9 hours charging/discharging/recharging cycle,the battery is produced as a "revived' good performing battery. mass production shows yield rate of 70 percent. Based on the discharge time against the ampere size the battery is evaluated.
When the discharge time is 60 minutes with a battery of 80 Ah, the battery is regarded as "reuseable and good for sale"
When the discharge time is 35 minutes with a battery of 80 Ah, the battery is regarded as "reuseable" but "not good for sale"
The PROCHARGER is showing discharge time on its display panel whenever the disharge is done until the ending voltage reaches down to 10.5 volt.
Our distributor issued a warranty letter for the product 12 months unconditional plus 12 months prorata in Phillippines in 2009. Still the business has been going on well with good name. <It is our general rule to allow 6 months warranty period only for any foreign market>.
The ECO2 has been replacing other chemicals mentioned above in Korean market. For your information, All available desulfating chemicals, or pulse chargers are available and compete fiercely.
The ECO2 has many merits . But when it is used with a PROCHARGER, it 'cleans' the sulfated plates in shorter time. We see some 'dead" batteries are born " alive' after addition of ECO2 and charge-discharge Cycling process.

I think we can believe that most of lead acid batteries prematurely die because of SULFATED lead plates. Not all the waste batteries but 10-15 percent of total waste batteries in Korean scrap batteries can be revived with chemical and an electrical charger. Please see more details at, www.snpenergy.co.kr. www.eco2.co.kr
www.powertec.or.kr
C.KIM

Last edited by david4w; 09-05-2010 at 11:07 PM. Reason: 1) 15-20 percent of scrap batteries are selected by a qucik voltcheck .Out of these batteries, 70-80 percent are rejuvenated.
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  #12  
Old 06-17-2010, 07:27 AM
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dtbaker dtbaker is offline
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Default Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

everything I have ever heard from battery people is that surface de-sulfaters work very temporarily. Once the process starts in the plates, it returns quickly. I would not be sure you get enough extra life from the batteries to pay for the process and shipping.
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  #13  
Old 06-17-2010, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

Here is one that I've been using, also have two of the smaller ones. This is an exellent charger/desulphator.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...6706_200326706


Roy
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  #14  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:07 PM
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vpoppv vpoppv is offline
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Default Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

I've had luck with desulfators, but I pick and choose good candidates. I doubt they can restore a battery in really bad shape. After reading this thread, I went ahead and put the desulfator on a battery that sits at 10.56v after a charge- usually I dismiss any battery that won't hold above 12v after a charge. We'll see what happens.....
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  #15  
Old 06-17-2010, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

Quote:
Originally Posted by vpoppv View Post
I went ahead and put the desulfator on a battery that sits at 10.56v after a charge- usually I dismiss any battery that won't hold above 12v after a charge. We'll see what happens.....

Worst case it shorts out, best case it comes back, remember though they usually don't come back all the way, but sometimes close.

I give you a 50/50 of having a workable battery, albeit at reduced capacity.

Also others here talk about how desulphated batteries rapidly return to that state, so long as you use the battery a lot and keep it on a desulphator and float when not being used this isn't much of a problem.

It is more of a pain to have them on life support, but they still can work.

Also edta removes the sulphate altogether so the battery will not sulphate any faster than a new battery, my trojans prove that.

They now hold 50% charge, up from less than 0% charge, not bad.

Cheers
Ryan
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  #16  
Old 06-18-2010, 12:58 AM
david4w david4w is offline
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Default Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

Dan, Thank you for your concern. Any new material, or a product need be tested by a third party. I would like to get some comments from selected 3-4 people who may willingly test our chemical in their waste batteries. Can I find those volunteers? I am prepared to send our chemicals to those who already have their desulfator(s) . If they ask me to my e-mail,davd@chol.com, I will send the ECo2 pack of 120cc( 2x60cc) free of charge. Shipping cost will be paid by me. They can test our chemical and share their experience to others .

As of today(June18th), I got requests from volunteers from USA. I hope that I could finish sending my samples within next week. If possible from other parts of world, such as Europen countries or African countries or Oceania. I have to respect those volunteers fisrt come fisrt serve basis.
As of today( June 24th) I have to close candidates who are going to use our desulfating chemicals. We selected three candidates who are going to share their experience our liquid desulfator. Thank you for your cooperation and response to my request positively.

Last edited by david4w; 06-24-2010 at 01:53 AM. Reason: Closing the candidates for testing desulfating liquid as of today.
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  #17  
Old 06-18-2010, 06:09 AM
david4w david4w is offline
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Default Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

Quote:Although it may not seem like it chemicals are the method of LAST resort! A normal electrical desulphator is far superior to chemical methods as there are no side effects! Many people can't/won't use a pulse desulphator or are in too much of a hurry then the chemicals can be used assuming the batteries are in pretty poor shape and they are willing to live with either weak electrolite or rapid self discharge.unquote.

There is a differeent opinion on the comparison of two desulfation methods: pulse desulfation and chemical desulfation. I personally think if one method compliments the other, that will be the best. Electrical desulfation has the best performance just after the pulsing process. Soon after the process, "sulfation" begins to form. But with chemical desulfation,the effect of desulfation is gradually increasing. In case of ECO2, we see the gradual increase of discharge time of the same battery as time goes on. Our customer checked the discharge time every month. In the beginning just after adding ECo2,16 minutes with 80AH battery. 24 minutes in a month. 28 minutes in 2 months,32 minutes in 3 months, 37minutes in 4 months. The daily use of chrge/discharge cycle seems to help the "desulfation" of lead plates in this case.
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  #18  
Old 06-28-2010, 09:21 AM
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vpoppv vpoppv is offline
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Default Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

I must say that I am very impressed with this company so far. I have been in contact with Mr. Kim, and he has sent me 10 boxes of his product. There are two bottles in each box. The communication has always been exceptionally polite. I have received thorough instructions, as well as MSDS data sheets. Shipping was incredibly fast from Korea. Everything has been free. I will be posting results here. I have also started a blog:

http://poormanev.blogspot.com/

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  #19  
Old 06-28-2010, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

I will be curious to see your results... Please outline current state of your batteries, your typical use, charger, whether you have a pulse de-sulph, and how you will measure results....

I know that MY pack is aging because it has started not 'finishing' its high-voltage cycle, and seems to have lost some capacity, but it would be hard for me to put specific numbers on how much, and harder still to see small improvement. My charge cycle seems to never quite hit the upper voltage the charger wants to see to consider itself 'done', and continues to pull 1.5-2.0 amps until manually unplugged. I now have a Cycle Analyst installed, and can get accurate pack voltage, and voltage drop after given X watt-hr output... but I dunno how I would measure change in capacity with any accuracy. How are you doing it?

By rough guesstimates of miles at 50% Dod on my gauge, my max range seems to have dropped from 40 to around 30, and sag is more evident earlier.... but since I have never driven a FLA pack 'to death' I don't know how fast the loss progresses, or how to measure with any real accuracy.
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Last edited by dtbaker; 06-28-2010 at 09:42 AM.
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  #20  
Old 06-28-2010, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: lead-acid battery 'rejuvenation'

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbaker View Post
I will be curious to see your results... Please outline current state of your batteries, your typical use, charger, whether you have a pulse de-sulph, and how you will measure results....

I know that MY pack is aging because it has started not 'finishing' its high-voltage cycle, and seems to have lost some capacity, but it would be hard for me to put specific numbers on how much, and harder still to see small improvement. My charge cycle seems to never quite hit the upper voltage the charger wants to see to consider itself 'done', and continues to pull 1.5-2.0 amps until manually unplugged. I now have a Cycle Analyst installed, and can get accurate pack voltage, and voltage drop after given X watt-hr output... but I dunno how I would measure change in capacity with any accuracy. How are you doing it?

By rough guesstimates of miles at 50% Dod on my gauge, my max range seems to have dropped from 40 to around 30, and sag is more evident earlier.... but since I have never driven a FLA pack 'to death' I don't know how fast the loss progresses, or how to measure with any real accuracy.
First off dtbaker, we live in completely different EV worlds. I would kill for your conversion (well, batteries anyway). I don't know how helpful my tests will be for someone who buys all new batteries and seeks to increase their lifespan. I have six mismatched, hodgepodged, bailing wire and duct tapped together batteries donating their electrons to a 2 hp tired 33 year old pipsqueak motor. It's pretty simple for me: if a battery can hold anything above 12v for a few days I throw it in my car and cross my fingers. If it gets me to work and back for any length of time and still shows above 12v I consider it "good". If, on the other hand, it goes down to anything under 12v resting voltage, I consider it "bad". If this product can turn a "bad" into a "good", I'll be a happy camper.
I will give as much information as I can, however I don't have the equipment for capacity tests. I'm basically limited to voltage. So far it has seemed to be sufficient. I took many voltage readings in my EV, and I was quickly able to tell which batteries could work in it reliably. As the advocate for the poor man's EV, my goal with this product will be to show how someone can take someone's reject battery and turn it into a useable battery for much less than the cost of new. Since I have been given a generous amount of product, perhaps I can use some in the batteries that are sort of the "backbone" of my pack, but the problem is that I have no real way of determining the longevity of a used battery with versus without product, given that each battery is different. I can only determine if the SOC is higher/lower over a given time frame based on resting voltage. Not very scientific- but then no part of my conversion was! At the very least, I will be able to determine if this product can revive a battery to a useable condition that simple charging and electronic desulfating could not.
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