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lionev site change

14K views 100 replies 22 participants last post by  david85 
#1 ·
It seems lionev has changed their pricing and their pricing page. It looks like they are selling only the individual 3.2 packs now but they include the not yet released Hot Juice battery management
They also seem to be quite a bit more expensive.

 
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#2 ·
thats a picture that TexomaEV posted on his flicker, its their own seperate testing of the cells and BMS. Lionev did not construct that 4 cell pack in the picture. nor do they make the BMS. if they are actually selling these then they are just a middle man marking them up no doubt. but they can put whatever they want on the net to try and scam people, because personally, thats what i think they are, a scam, the more i hear about them the more i think that, they still haven't responded to my email...has anyone checked if they have a business licence? i really wanted these guys to be the real thing. they could do so much more to prove they are what they say they are.

i have an offer

i work in television, Lionev, if you want to prove yourself if you want exposure, let me know and i'll make it happen

...i'm sure i will never get a response to that sadly
 
#4 ·
Re: lionev site change, where they get them from

OK Guys here is the deal.
I found out where they are buying these modules from. Lets say somewhere overseas.(China) I contacted the company for a quote on the 100ah module and they said $200 a piece plus shipping for a small order, I think that means less than 100 units. :( I asked them to get me a shipping quote using my business in Ohio for a discount. If this works out I would be happy to be the middleman without any mark up. You do have to order and ship to a business address. If you guys want to put your money together to do a bulk order let me know.:cool: 4-6 weeks for delivery to me probably another week from my place to yours.
If you need to know about me you can search my ebay id: wakinyantanka
check my feedback:D
 
#6 ·
Re: lionev site change, where they get them from

OK Guys here is the deal.
I found out where they are buying these modules from. Lets say somewhere overseas.(China) I contacted the company for a quote on the 100ah module and they said $200 a piece plus shipping for a small order, I think that means less than 100 units. :( I asked them to get me a shipping quote using my business in Ohio for a discount. If this works out I would be happy to be the middleman without any mark up. You do have to order and ship to a business address. If you guys want to put your money together to do a bulk order let me know.:cool: 4-6 weeks for delivery to me probably another week from my place to yours.
If you need to know about me you can search my ebay id: wakinyantanka
check my feedback:D
wakinyantanka, if you don't have a business address and/or registered business tax ID number I'd be willing to help by having them shipped to my shop. The caveat is that I'm in Canada, so for shipping south again recipients would have to pay the NAFTA mandated broker's fees.
 
#16 ·
OK guys here is the deal, after some more research found that the prismatic style lifepo4 batteries are not very good for traction application. Thats why Thundersky has such a high failure rate.
The better style is the cylindrical with the 1/4 -20 mounting bolts on the ends. Thats why A123 systems only sell the cylindrical style. They will release the current far quick and are far more robust than the prismatic style.
I would highly recommend not buying any prismatic lifepo4 for traction applications.
I am waiting on a quote from a manufacturer for a 3.2v nominal 110ah cylindrical unit very similar to the lifebatt seen here.
http://www.lifebatt.com/
I will tell you they are probably more expensive than the prismatic but the advantages are far greater and they are lighter.:D
 
#17 ·
OK guys here is the deal, after some more research found that the prismatic style lifepo4 batteries are not very good for traction application. Thats why Thundersky has such a high failure rate.
I suspect the poor quality control and shipping batteries that are already defective has something to do with it ;)
 
#27 ·
Just obtained tracking numbers for 32ea of the 100Ah Prismatics, to install in the Fiero, we originally tried the flexpack units in. They of course are from LionEV. We'll be installing the BEQ1-LiFePO4 equalizers of course, prior to ever charging the cells.

Also, the Prismatic LiFePO4's are now back on www.beepscom.com , and CloudEV's websites. I suspect they are back in stock, since the cells for the Fiero are on the way.

If you haven't seen how the BEQ1-LiFePO4 equalizers are working out, check the test results out on the Flickr site.
 
#31 ·
What BMS are CloudEV including?

Just a month ago (and one month after they received my money for other parts, still not received) BES/CloudEV were stating emphatically that their batteries and BMS were the ones provided to them by LIonEV - but not one LIonEV customer I've spoken to has received a BMS, in-house or not.

Does CLoudEV have a separate source BMS they're now shipping?
 
#32 ·
What BMS are CloudEV including?

Just a month ago (and one month after they received my money for other parts, still not received) BES/CloudEV were stating emphatically that their batteries and BMS were the ones provided to them by LIonEV - but not one LIonEV customer I've spoken to has received a BMS, in-house or not.

Does CLoudEV have a separate source BMS they're now shipping?
Did you actually try to order some of these cells?

My gut tells me that they are all coming from one supplier since they are all showing the same photographs. I must say this is rather discouraging to see just how unreliable some of these suppliers can be. One month is not by any stretch of the imagination an acceptable waiting time for parts unless they are coming in a shipping container direct from china. Two months is just stupid....

In reality, a decent BMS does not really cost all that much now that electronics are cheaper than tap water. The suppliers I have contacted all offer some sort of BMS with their LiPo or lifepo batteries. It seems a bit strange that they would state that BMS is not really mandatory, and now start to offer it later on. Why not offer them from day 1 instead of stating the supposed 3C limit for self ballancing?

I honestly thought things were looking up for the next generation of EV batteries, but now I'm not so sure. I hope to order some samples of my own in a few months, maybe then I will know more.
 
#33 ·
It's all a bit worrying. I used to have a screen snapshot of Beepscom's product list and previous pricing but I seem to have deleted it. :mad:
Still, at least they're offering BMS with their batteries now. They're a tad cheaper than LionEV even though they seem to be indentical batteries. Even the description matches LionEV's website word-for-word.

I worked this out for my next battery pack and saved it to check again in a year or two (or until the Tredia finally shatters into a mound of rust):

Beepscom Battery Pricing for a 15.3 kWh battery pack:
- Each battery is 3.2 volts and 100ah at $299.95 US
- I need 4 to make 12.8 volts and 100ah at $1199.80
- I then need 12 of these combos to make a 153 volt pack at $14,397 US ($18,370 NZD)


So at the moment we're looking at for $18,370 NZ with the current prices and excluding shipping and Kiwi tax. Ouch.
I'm currently running a 12.2 kWh lead-acid pack so I wonder what the range difference will be...
Hmmmm.... :rolleyes:
 
#35 ·
Beepscom Battery Pricing for a 15.3 kWh battery pack:
- Each battery is 3.2 volts and 100ah at $299.95 US
- I need 4 to make 12.8 volts and 100ah at $1199.80
- I then need 12 of these combos to make a 153 volt pack at $14,397 US ($18,370 NZD)
How come your planning on upping to a 156V pack KIWI? Aren't you happy with the Tredia's grunt?
 
#37 ·
Yes, that has got to be frustrating, Keep on them for your items. I know when I first did my conversion, it seemed to take forever to get items, IE: Controller, contactor, charger, etc. I wish, one could just drop by the local auto parts store, and pickup conversion parts. Maybe some day.....

Some talk about other battery suppliers, having BMS's have been going on. It's been my experience that these things if anything like what is used in laptop battery packs, won't perform nearly as well, especially in an EV Environment, as these developed and tested by Hot Juice Electric.
 
#40 ·
Wow I'm really sorry to hear about that Manntis . Quite a while ago I worked for a small business that made equipment for micro breweries . The owner had no concept of who's money it was in his account . He was always robing Peter to pay Paul ! He would take a deposit on a machine and use that money to finish the machine that we were building at the time for another costumer . I hope things work out ok . J.W.
 
#41 ·
Robbing peter to pay paul is one of the reasons our business got ripped for over $30k worth of product. I probably shouldn't say any details because the matter may be going before the courts.

I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles, Manntis. You have taken a big risk for the rest of us by being one of the first to try this new product and it seems you got burned for it. I know its a long shot, but have you tried asking for a refund yet?
 
#42 ·
I know its a long shot, but have you tried asking for a refund yet?
Oh yes. And we still hold a slim chance that we'll receive said refund, as when Ken was convicted of fraud in 2006 he refunded some of the coin buyers he ripped off (according to some, he did so as part of a tactic to make the appeals court jury believe the fraud was unintentional and thereby receive a lighter sentence)
 
#43 ·
the last bit of research i did on lionev was a court document stating that ken curry's sentence(slap on the wrist) was reviewed by a higher court and found to be inadequate and was returned to the lower court for resentencing following state guidelines(which were not followed in the first sentencing).it would appear that if anyone is going to get a refund it would have to happen soon as MR.curry may be headed to prison.
 
#46 ·
don't let lionev throw you off the lifepo train gav.there are other manufacturers and retailers out there that will be supplying the batteries.it's only a matter of time before the quality issues get resolved and the prices come down.just keep watching.:)
 
#48 ·
so will i kiwi, but i do want to go lithium with my conversion. i need to get 100 miles...i don't know if i should go with the 100ah, or the 200ah. i know i will be spending anywhere from 10 000, to hopefully no more then 15 000 but i want to make sure that if i'm spending the money, the batteries will be reliable, last they way they are advertised, and get me the 100 miles i'm looking for. so far i don't see any companies worth trusting.
 
#49 ·
BPS / CloudEV emailed me today asking what batteries they should have their supplier program the Zivan chargers for, and asked if I'm using AGM batteries. The good news is that means I should receive the chargers. The bad news is I interpret this to mean even they expect that I won't receive the LIonEV batteries that I paid for.
 
#52 ·
Well, the LiFeBATTs have been tested in Sandia's labs, there is a technical report. Also the diy scene has performed some test for RC and e-bike applications, so this is a legitimate product, I'd say they try to position themselves as a potential competitor to A123, basically the first league. LiFeBATTs are certainly more expensive than ThunderSky or even lower quality level LiFePO4 out there. Some test in real full EV application conditions are welcomed, it's promising product but wait for more feedback or just start with smaller project e-scooter/bicycle..

As to LionEV cells, I've posted a request/manual when the hype for them was at its peak - how to perform mutlithousand cycle test on their cells (diy style nothing expensive) and the early adopters were not interested, it was clearly not necessary to get burned like this..
 
#53 ·
LionEV

I'm so thank full I found this site. It sucks that fraudsters are taking advantage of people adopting this technology. I know my next vehicle will be an EV. Seems like a good time to start an EV Business if you can get the right battery supplier.

I was very interested in LionEV's kits prior to reading and searching on this forum. It seemed so clean and plenty of custom parts behind it to make everything look clean as well.

Are there good options for DIY kits? I mean a full turn key set that only requires install? The battery boxes for the ranger makes it so much nicer then other kit's I've seen, even the way they mounted the A/C and other accessories.

I've printed out the DIY Ranger pages in case the site disappears. I will consider developing a kit if I can't find a decent one. No batteries, but everything else in a single one stop package would be nice.

Cheers,
And... thanks again for the forum and info.
 
#55 ·
#59 · (Edited)
just caught sight of lionev's last site update.they have the fiero that mr. barkley has been working on listed as "another lionev project".looks like they took the photos right off the flickr site that mr.barkley uses.

manntis,any luck with those guys yet?

mr barkley,are you working with lionev on this or are they just using you as their only example of lionev projects?
 
#60 · (Edited)
just caught sight of lionev's last site update.they have the fiero that mr. barkley has been working on listed as "another lionev project".looks like they took the photos right off the flickr site that mr.barkley uses.

manntis,any luck with those guys yet?

mr barkley,are you working with lionev on this or are the just using you as their only example of lionev projects?
He did purchase the cells from LionEV. We are reporting our results/findings to them as we get further along in the installation and test phase. We've got a pretty long lead time though on the BEQ1-LiFePO4 regulators (First Production Run), which gives plenty of time to figure out how to mount/secure the LiFePO4 cells into place.

I hope also to have the Delorean, sometime soon, in order to start it's conversion as well. The owner of it, is still trying to find an economical method of getting it to me from Alabama.
 
#62 ·
Some of the packages arrived from CloudEV, though the chargers are still missing - the tracking number for that package turned out to be bogus.

Very disappointed with what did arrive. The "pre-cut cables" came as one coil of cable - the only cuts were where the cable was cut off the original spool. That's it. No pre-cut lengths, no ends installed. Everything else seems to be of similar quality - read, junk.
 
#65 ·
Hi,
I have to put my two cents in here when it comes to dealing with Cloud Ev. I ended up getting the electronics from them after LionEV dropped the ball and did not deliver on the Ranger kit. I am also awaiting the charger delivery and hopefully will arrive shortly. But overall I have to say I am satisfied with them, I never have a problem talking with anyone.
I imagine everyone will have a different experience, and so far I will count this as a positive one.

Cloud is also working on on adaptor/coupler for a 2003 6 cyl. Ranger and that also is supposed to be coming shortly.
When I actually get all my parts, then I will say I am 100% satisfied. But so far so good... Plus you can use the credit card with Cloud, so really if there is a problem you can dispute it.
 
#68 ·
We don't know a range as of yet, because the car's pack will not be charged, until the BEQ1-LiFePO4 regulators arrive and are installed.

On another note: I do not work for LionEV, I've obtained product from them, and report my findings/tests back to them. I'm trying to get an EV conversion program started at my school, and if the owner of the Delorean can get it to me, then I'll do a presentation to the school board, asking them if we can have the shop class do the conversion. If not, then our Electric Auto Association or another school will be the next choice to do the conversion.
 
#69 · (Edited)
I hope that program goes through - that'll give your high school a leg up on teaching the "new mechanics" of EVs

There was that highschool that "converted" a car by making the Attack kit car into a hybrid, but let's face it: DeLoreans are much nicer, have a roof and real weather seals, and are actually cheaper than the Attack kit :)

I looked at doing a DeLorean conversion a little more than a year ago, but the fellow I was going to buy the car from was a purist who sputtered and became enraged when he discovered I wanted to convert the car. A bit odd, as he'd let it go to rack & ruin on his watch. Once comment of his that stuck with me is "Even if you find someone dumb enough to sell you a DeLorean for your Fankenstein project, you'll fail. There's no place to put batteries". I guess he never heard of lithium ions.
 
#72 ·
Sheesh. That response seems more appropriate if you had told him you intended to paint it. :D

I do hope that more of your parts keep trickling in. I can't imagine the frustration of having that kind of money still floating around out there in tracking number limbo.

Mismanagement and back ordering problems are one thing...but this sounds like out right fraud to me.

Some of these folks are going to wind up with justly deserved felonies and jail time if they don't come clean. They should pony-up the parts or give the money back. It's as simple as that.

Over the next decade, the upcoming EV market has the potential to quickly rival and surpass the sweeping success of the internet and the dot-coms. Too bad a few are going to muck it up for themselves and others right out of the gate.
 
#70 ·
Bit off topic, but are these guys for real? http://www.delorean.com/

I saw on the news a few months ago that they intend to start building them again from scratch. I wonder if there are any completed new cars yet.

Stainless steel is my favorite material, though carbon/kevlar fiber comes pretty close too:)
 
#71 ·
yes, they're for real... they've been restoring DeLoreans for years, to mixed reviews. Some are extremely happy with their work while others grumble it's overpriced for the services delivered.

No word yet on delivered remanufactured cars though.
 
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