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  #1  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:25 AM
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Tatsushige Tatsushige is offline
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Default Makes you wonder!

Sometimes you just want to smack the hell out of idiots..

This is one of them cases!

The Leaf in Winter: Some thoughts on electric cars.

http://www.british-gazette.co.uk/201...electric-cars/

Today’s article is and interesting and informative commentary upon the Nissan Leaf and electric cars in general by the Reverend Philip Foster MA.

1. The ratio of power to weight for the electric “fuel” compared to petrol is about 1:10. ie; the battery weight and volume is ten times that of a tank of fuel for the same mileage.

2. With a petrol vehicle power does not drop off as fuel is consumed, with an electric vehicle this is invariably the case.

3. With winter rather full on at the moment, consider a scenario of an electric vehicle at night up on the Yorkshire moors in a snow storm.

The voltage of the battery will have fallen because of the cold, reducing power available to the engine. No heating of any kind is possible in these circumstances as this would rapidly drain already reduced power in the battery, so inside temperature is dropping rapidly and the windscreen (and windows) frosting up inside and out.

Approaching a hill, power availability is becoming critical and will probably fail half way up. The vehicle is now “dead in the water”.

Recharging is impossible (nearest house is 20 miles) and even if possible would take some time. So unless the car has a fairly large portable generator (several kw) on board (plus petrol to run it) or a complete fully charged spare battery (costing £10,000) the driver is stranded and possibly unable even to use his mobile phone. Once stranded, the driver is in a very dangerous situation risking hypothermia. His only option is to abandon the vehicle and walk the twenty miles plus to civilization – an equally dangerous option.

Compare this with a petrol vehicle. Yes, it might indeed struggle in a snow storm, but power itself will not be reduced (arguably marginally increased due to a lower outside temperature for the exhaust), heat is “freely” available at all times from the waste heat of the engine.

(Even if the car is stuck he can keep warm for several hours using the engine on idle). Should he be unfortunate enough to run out of petrol, he will likely have a spare can in the boot and it‘s a matter of minutes to put in the extra gallon which could take him the necessary 30-40 miles to civilization.

4. Electric vehicle batteries, costing, as they do, £10,000 each, are easy targets for thieves. The idea of battery swopping at garages is equally a tempting target for thieves.

5. In an accident, these batteries present a huge hazard of fire and electrocution, water adding to the hazard from the latter.

To pay £25,000 for a mini runaround which is only usable around town in clement weather is a ridiculous waste of money. You will need a second vehicle for nearly everything else anyway. The claim that it only costs £2 to go 100 miles is like the claims made for solar and wind power. The cost of back up – in this case a second conventional vehicle far outweighs any supposed advantage of the fuel cost saving.

The Yorkshire moors scenario unfortunately can be reproduced even in London in a hard winter. On a crowded road when a Leaf runs out of power it‘s stuck. Traffic will back up behind it… other Leafs will run of of power waiting… there will be grid lock with “fallen‘ Leaves” littering the streets. Dežnitely the wrong kind of Leaves on the road!

6. Hybrid vehicles however, though expensive, do have merits. As with the diesel-electic units used on the railways, they can maximise the efficiency of the petrol/diesel engine used to generate the power for the electric motors. At the moment this has probably not been fully exploited. The Prius is not that fuel efficient suggesting there is some way to go yet with making this technology a serious competitor.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:37 AM
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Default Ride in Nissan Leaf Limo [Video]

Ride in Nissan Leaf Limo


The Nissan Leaf has finally reached ‘maturity’. No self-respecting car should be considered ‘ripe’ before getting a bespoke limo version. Also, judging by the video, the effort of transforming the Leaf into a limo has been an extremely successful one.

The rear part of the EV features one extra row of seats, courtesy of the extended wheelbase, which faces the rearmost row, allowing for easy communication among passengers. Add in the wood and leather trim, champagne cooler and ample space and, well, it’s genuinely great. Furthermore, the Leaf is absolutely perfect as a base for a limo.

Think about it for a second! What do limo passengers want? Space, comfort, silence and luxury? It seems that this Leaf limo has all of those, with a special note to the ‘sound’ part, as even the quietest of cars (Rolls Royce and the lot) still couldn’t match the silence of the Leaf’s electric motor, as it hums along seamlessly, dragging the elongated body along with it.

If we were given a choice of modern limos, we’d honestly pick the Leaf limo over any other (though, we would like it in black), because, as well as being green, it is an interesting quirk an it will make people smile (us included) and improve the quality of their day - something which is getting rarer and rarer in our modern society.

Take a ride in the Leaf limo, why don't you!
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Makes you wonder!

Very few EV drivers would find themselves in the situation in the OP. Most would just go below their usual DOD.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: Makes you wonder!

Well some of the points in the article are correct although as it goes on it seem as the author is trying to be cute by exaggeration. The one I jumped on right away was letting the car idle for heat while stranded. I have heard of motorist asphyxiating from exhaust fumes while sitting in an idling car. I would like to know what the heck he is doing running around in a snow storm in the first place. I have a four wheel drive vehicle and chains for each wheel plus so good winter clothing and I stay home when a big storm is brewing. Fire and batteries? What is the big deal? A few years ago close to where I live a guy’s ICE car caught fire and when he opened the hood he got hosed with flaming petrol because of a broken fuel injection line. As for theft there are crooks that will steal anything so why should batteries be different? As for a second vehicle many people could get along with just an electric. My wife and I take her mother shopping and to the Dr. every now and then and the three of us seem to fit better in the Dodge Intrepid than the two seater otherwise I would take it. If I had a Leaf or the like there would be no problem. As for savings I do not change oil as often in the petrol cars because I drive the EV around town most of the time. Even adding in the annual cost of my batteries a conservative estimate shows my Ev to be 75% cheaper to operate that my Dodge and if I compare my 70 Landcruiser it feels like I am getting money back. It was quite benevolent of the author to not pick on Hybrids but I imagine it was because he pretty much exhausted his knowledge of the subject. It is easiest to pick on something if you only are aware of one side of it. Has this guy actually studied the Ev and what it is capable of? Obviously not! I am constantly doing a mental comparison between electric vs gas and while temperature can effect performance range is still the big issue but over all I would still pick my EV. I have adapted quite well to my thirty mile range and have often wondered what I would do if I suddenly got 150 mile range. Would I still go to the Wall Mart 12 miles away or would I start going to the Wall Mart 30 miles away? Electric came before the ICE and is making a come back. The few drawbacks will be overcome and the EV will reign supreme. One last thing. I can’t remember was the Moon Rover gas or diesel?
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: Makes you wonder!

ICE fuel oils burn. Brake fluid burns even more easily.
Thieves steel catalysts from ICE exhaust pipes.
ICE cars break down.
An empty spare fuel can contains no fuel.
ICE cars are generally no use what so ever when you drive them into a lake.
If the ICE was in a motorbike it wouldn't have a roof rack for that large purchase at the furniture shop.
People die when they run their ICE in a closed garage.
An idiot is still an idiot whatever the fuel source of a random vehicle.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Makes you wonder!

I drove my car through rain and snow this last winter. Even did a slight amount of "plowing" with the front skid plate when our street wasn't cleared right away (I had to get to class so I got in and drove!).

It had terrible tires and poor ground clearance but with so much weight on the front it simply pushed through anyway.

I also did the calculation for how long it would take to use up the battery with only the heater running and it worked out to something like 15 hours if the battery was fully charged. On average it would reduce the range by roughly 15% if it was on all the time.

I stopped worrying about trying to convince others a long time ago. I have my car and thats all I really wanted.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Makes you wonder!

Others more knowledgeable about these things on this forum have calculated that current generation batteries are about 30 times heavier than gas, not 10 times.

If you live in the north and drive an electric vehicle to its' limits, it would make sense to have an auxiliary natural gas heater for just such emergencies. An EV will power a blower fan an awful long time.

Blankets are good, too, as are nutrition bars which keep forever.

Just sayin'...
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Makes you wonder!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomPholly View Post

Blankets are good, too, as are nutrition bars which keep forever.

Just sayin'...
Whenever I left for a 4 hour drive in my diesel F250 (there were many in my line of work), I never left home without those things. That truck would probably idle for about a week with both fuel tanks filled
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Makes you wonder!

Nissan LEAF have had no problems in Hokkaido or Niigata and the temp drops a lot lower then the UK.

Here in Japan everyone has emergency blankets in the car also flares and Magnetic Red Flashing lights like the cops have, the reason is if there is a big quake the traffic department closes down all the interchanges.

A normal trip that takes only 1 hour to get home via the Tokyo Aqua Line, last year in the 3/11 Quake took me 16 hours because all the interchanges were closed and taking the normal land roads from Yokohama to Chiba was nother but a huge traffice jam like something I have never seen in over 40 odd years. A 10 minute trip across Shibuya took over 90 minutes on that night.

As for going out in a snow storm, one would have to be a complete idiot to even thing about going out in that, you could not see 1 meter in front of you, so why in the world would you travel out in that anyway?
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: Makes you wonder!

No Wonder At All. I drive a Leaf summer and winter. No issues to date and 14,200 miles down the road. I love my Leaf. Daily driven.
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