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Old 12-20-2009, 05:27 PM
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Default Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

I would like to get more info on understanding and using the Manzanita DIP switches #3, #4, and #7. The latest owners manual states #3 starts timer when reg bus commands. Any way to do this without the Manzanita BMS? #4 is the Reg Bus disable. I would like for my BMS to trip this, has anyone figured out how to implement it? #7 turns the charger off as the HV limit is reached. Any ideas on how to use this?

I'm trying to interface this charger (PFC-30) with the VoltBlochers that I have. This info would also be helpful for anyone using Dimitri's cheap BMS solution. It seems be a great charger. ( I do not wish to insult or cut into Mr. Rudman's BMS profits but just fully utilize the charger I bought.)

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2009, 06:56 PM
tomofreno tomofreno is offline
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Default Re: Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

Leave the dip switches set as the manual says. You use the Regbus input to turn the charger off by connecting Regbus pin1, which is +5V, to pin2. A voltage larger than about 4.5V on pin2 should shut off the charger. You can also connect a resistive divider between Regbus pins 1, 2, and 4 so the charger continues charging but at a lower current output. For example you might want to cut back current to 1 or 2A with an HVC signal so the rest of the cells continue charging while the high voltage cell is shunted. A relay and 1k resistor between pins 1&2 and 10k between pins 2&4 would give 4.54V on pin 2, shutting down the charger.

With dip switch 3 on, a "hot reg" signal to Regbus pin 2 starts the charger timer. I don't know if the voltage must be greater than 4.5V or any voltage will do it. You'll have to check, because if a lower voltage won't turn on the timer, then the charger will just continue putting out the lower current and not shut off. If you want to cut back to 1-2A for balancing, you will need the timer activated at the same time so it shuts off the charger when it times out.

The Voltblocher (VB) optorelay likely cannot be able to handle the current to connect pins 1&2, so you may need to use it to turn on another relay between these two pins. This relay must require low current input - less than the max output current of the VB relay. I bought International Rectifier PVN012APbF N.O. mosfet photorelay, which handles up to 6A, has very low on resistance, and requires only 15mA input, for this.

In this case you would connect 12V to one input of the IR relay, and the positive terminal of the VB HVC to the other. The negative VB HVC terminal would be connected to ground, so when the VB optorelay turns on it turns on the IR relay. The outputs of the IR relay are connected to pins 1&2 on the Regbus input, with or without a resistive voltage divider.

I haven't actually tried this as I had problems with my VBs and removed them, so proceed with caution.

Last edited by tomofreno; 12-20-2009 at 09:24 PM. Reason: forgot to mention pin4 in resistive divider
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Old 12-21-2009, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

Tom, Thanks for the quick reply! That IR pvn012apbf looks great to use between the VB's and the RegBus. Would you comment on my planned use of them? (I've got limited experience with circuits):

I'll connect +12v to pin 1 on the IR pvn012apbf, -12v to screw #2 on VB (which is #7 on the LTV-826, emitter), #2 on the IR connected to #1 on VB ( the collector, pin 8). I read the datasheet on the IR and it has a 25mA limit to the input. Will this be exceeded by the above wiring?

Output side: IR pins 4 & 6 connected to RegBus #1, pin 5 to RegBus #2. This will shut down the charger with a HVC signal from the VB's. Charger DIP switched set to: 1-on, 2-off, 3-on, 4-on, 7-off per the manual.

I would like to know the effect that those DIP switches have when the RegBus pins 1 and 2 are connected. It would be nice to trigger the Timer fuction of the Charger.

Again , Thanks.
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Old 12-21-2009, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

Tom,

When you said in your reply: "With dip switch 3 on, a "hot reg" signal to Regbus pin 2 starts the charger timer..." did you mean if Dip #3 is "on" then shorting Pin 1 & 2 will start the timer function?

That would be useful if one wanted to switch to constant voltage mode ( the Timer mode with blue led flashing) when the first HVC cell signal is reached.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

Quote:
When you said in your reply: "With dip switch 3 on, a "hot reg" signal to Regbus pin 2 starts the charger timer..." did you mean if Dip #3 is "on" then shorting Pin 1 & 2 will start the timer function?
That's correct. When the Rudman Regulators get hot they put 5V to Regbus input pin2 to shut down the charger until they are cool, so a "hot reg" signal means 5V to pin2.

The input to the PVN012 is pins 1&2, so +12V is connected to pin1, and VB terminal8 is connected to pin2. VB terminal7 is connected to chassis ground. When the VB LV286 turns on it connects pin2 to ground, turning on the PVN012.

I believe the PVN012 has lower on resistance using outputs 6 and 5 rather than 6 and 4, so I had planned to connect Regbus pin1 to PVN012 pin6, connect a 1kOhm resistor to PVN012 pin5, and a 10k resistor in series with the 1k to Regbus pin4. Then when the PVN012 turns on there will be 4.54V on Regbus input pin2, turning off the charger. As I mentioned, if you want to just cut back the charger current, use a smaller divider ratio to put a smaller voltage on Regbus pin2. But as I said, I don't know how much voltage on Regbus pin2 is required to trigger the timer. You will need it triggered to shut of the charger.

Also beware that the Regbus has the full AC input voltage on it since the charger is non-isolated. So don't connect the resistive divider on the Regbus input to chassis ground! Connect it to pin4. And again, I haven't implemented this, so there may be something I overlooked, proceed with caution.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:02 AM
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Default Re: Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

Got it. Thanks for the chassis warning and the other info.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

Tom,

this would be the diagram to interface MiniBMS with Manzanita charger. Please confirm and I will add it to the user manual later.

Thanks

MiniBMS wiring diagram 4.gif
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

Quote:
Please confirm and I will add it to the user manual later.
That is what the Elithion documentation shows, just a relay between pins1 and 2, and should work to shut off the charger. I planned to use the resistive divider as described in my last post here, as I thought the resistors would result in less voltage spiking, maybe its not an issue. If you want to use the minibms with shunts and reduce output current to 1 - 2A for a while to top balance cells, you will need to use the resistive divider with lower voltage on pin2. Like I said, not sure how much voltage is required to trigger the timer, and it must be triggered in this case or the charger will not shut off. I may cobble together a resistor, pot, and switch and test this sometime over the next week to see how much I can cut back the charger current and if it still triggers the timer. But at this time, I don't intend to top balance, so I don't have a great deal of interest in it.
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

I did some testing today. The PVN012 relay turns on with 12.8V to it through a 800 Ohm resistor (800 Ohm and 12.8V gives about 16mA current through the input of the relay, about in the middle of it's range - you will need to use this current limiting resistor jt). I varied the voltage on Regbus pin2 with a pot in a resistive divider on the output of the relay. It requires about 2.5V to trigger the timer (2.48V did not, 2.51V did), but this did not affect the current output of the charger, it remained charging at 20A. Applying about 3.15V to pin2 triggered the timer and and cut back the current immediately from about 20A to 13A. Applying 3.75V to Regbus pin2 triggered the timer and cut back the current from 20A to 2.0A. Shorting Regbus pin2 to Regbus pin1 cut the current output to zero. Also, the timer resets every time (with the dip switch settings Rich recommends), so I could disconnect the 12V turning off the relay and the timer would go off, current would go back to full setting, reconnect the 12V and the timer came back on, current reduced.

So it seems to work. You will need to experiment with the divider ratio you require to cut back your normal charge current to 2A or less when the HVC signal goes high and a shunt turns on.

Tom
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Manzanita DIP Switches -(cheap BMS, VoltBlochers) please, need help

Excellent post Tom. Thanks.

Please just confirm what your DIP settings were during your test so I don't make a mistake.

Thanks, Dimitri, for the Hepa circuit you posted. I'll be using that.
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