[ev_nred]

thinke about maeking my bicycle in to an e bike
range need: 15 kmh top spped: 15 kmh
parts conisdered 24 Volt 450 Watt Motor, Controller, & Throttle Kit,,12 volt 12 ah (2-4) buget:$300 wath other parts do I need? srooy no pics of the donro

[Amberwolf]

Originally Posted by ev_nred

thinke about maeking my bicycle in to an e bike
range need: 15 kmh top spped: 15 kmh
parts conisdered 24 Volt 450 Watt Motor, Controller, & Throttle Kit,,12 volt 12 ah (2-4) buget:$300 wath other parts do I need? srooy no pics of the donro

Depends. Do you want to do it as a kit, or do you want to go DIY? You could do it for almost nothing if you go DIY, but you'll have a lot more work to do adapting things.

There are some kits that I've seen on sale for as little as your budget that include SLA batteries, motor, controller, etc, but I am not sure they'll actually give the speed and range they claim unless you pedal a lot.

You can look at my project blog
http://electricle.blogspot.com
for lots of details, or my project thread here on the forum, or over on Endless Sphere, to get some quickie looks at what I've done. My avatar is a not-quite-recent version of the most recent bike in the Electricle project.

I've also done an upright bike, the DayGlo Avenger, using radiator fan motors and friction drive with roller skate wheels, which worked pretty well, considering it's very thoroughly used SLA power sources.

[Amberwolf]

I just found your other posts in the DIY Segway thread, where you say you don't have a bike nor can you stay balanced on one.

Of course, you can always use or build a trike.

There are even conversion kits to turn almost any regular bike into a trike, by removing the rear wheel and replacing it with the kit that has the frame/axle/wheels/etc for the back two wheels. That would fix the balance problem, but the kits are a little pricey for me. Choppers US might have them.

There are a few reasonably easy trikes to build over at http://packratworkshop.com if you can weld.

[ev_nred]

Originally Posted by Amberwolf

I just found your other posts in the DIY Segway thread, where you say you don't have a bike nor can you stay balanced on one.

Of course, you can always use or build a trike.

There are even conversion kits to turn almost any regular bike into a trike, by removing the rear wheel and replacing it with the kit that has the frame/axle/wheels/etc for the back two wheels. That would fix the balance problem, but the kits are a little pricey for me. Choppers US might have them.

There are a few reasonably easy trikes to build over at http://packratworkshop.com if you can weld.

wath I mean is thta I cant ried a normaly bike but if its electric I thinke I can maneg. can you tell me if the parts I listed above aer good. and wath other parts and tools will i needed!

[Amberwolf]

Originally Posted by ev_nred

wath I mean is thta I cant ried a normaly bike but if its electric I thinke I can maneg. can you tell me if the parts I listed above aer good. and wath other parts and tools will i needed!

I don't know if those are good parts or not, since you don't specify what brand and model they are (or where the kit comes from), or at least give a link to them on their respective websites.

There are a lot of motors, controllers, and batteries out there, and not all of them are equally good given the same use for them, for various reasons.

For instance, if you are in an area that is often wet or rainy, or worse you are in snow in regions that get salt spread on the roads and sidewalks to de-ice them, and have a hubmotor, you will either need to clean it all out regularly, or you will need to ensure it stays dry, or is sealed well enough so that stuff can't get in there. There apparently aren't many (if any) hub motors that are sealed that well, so a motor mounted somewhere higher on the bike or in a place you can seal up might work out better in such an environment.

There are at least a couple of recent threads on the Endless Sphere forums about exactly these problems.

The other parts and tools you may need will be determined by the exact motor/controller/batteries you choose, so I can't help with those specifically until I know which ones you're asking about.

But in general you will want something to house the batteries in, if they don't come with a solution already. Without seeing your bike and it's frame, *and* knowing the details on M/C/B, I couldn't tell you what the best solution to that is, either. Some people use toolboxes on a cargo rack over the rear wheel. Some people use custom-made boxes that fit in the triangle of the central frame. Some strap them on wherever they'll fit. Some use panniers to the sides of the wheels. It depends....

Also, if you are going to carry any cargo, such as schoolbooks, projects, lunch, battery charger and extension cords, etc, making a complete solution that includes space for those and makes the bike easier to balance would be a good idea. But I'd need to know what your plans are before I can help.

[ev_nred]

Originally Posted by Amberwolf

I don't know if those are good parts or not, since you don't specify what brand and model they are (or where the kit comes from), or at least give a link to them on their respective websites.

There are a lot of motors, controllers, and batteries out there, and not all of them are equally good given the same use for them, for various reasons.

For instance, if you are in an area that is often wet or rainy, or worse you are in snow in regions that get salt spread on the roads and sidewalks to de-ice them, and have a hubmotor, you will either need to clean it all out regularly, or you will need to ensure it stays dry, or is sealed well enough so that stuff can't get in there. There apparently aren't many (if any) hub motors that are sealed that well, so a motor mounted somewhere higher on the bike or in a place you can seal up might work out better in such an environment.

There are at least a couple of recent threads on the Endless Sphere forums about exactly these problems.

The other parts and tools you may need will be determined by the exact motor/controller/batteries you choose, so I can't help with those specifically until I know which ones you're asking about.

But in general you will want something to house the batteries in, if they don't come with a solution already. Without seeing your bike and it's frame, *and* knowing the details on M/C/B, I couldn't tell you what the best solution to that is, either. Some people use toolboxes on a cargo rack over the rear wheel. Some people use custom-made boxes that fit in the triangle of the central frame. Some strap them on wherever they'll fit. Some use panniers to the sides of the wheels. It depends....

Also, if you are going to carry any cargo, such as schoolbooks, projects, lunch, battery charger and extension cords, etc, making a complete solution that includes space for those and makes the bike easier to balance would be a good idea. But I'd need to know what your plans are before I can help.

I am probebly going to add room to the crogo rack so I could put the battries in a toolboc and use the reminder of the space for my back pack. btw I will be removeing the peadels (so this e-bike will be a pe bike (puer electric bike)) here aer the links http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/2...ottle-kit.html

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24vo12amphob.html

wath other parts do I needed?!? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Amberwolf]

Originally Posted by ev_nred

I am probebly going to add room to the crogo rack so I could put the battries in a toolboc and use the reminder of the space for my back pack.

Remember with lead, even if you are using only 2x 12Ah batteries, it will ad some significant weight, about 14-20 pounds, depending on what those specific batteries weigh. If you could afford it, I'd strongly recommend almost any other battery type.

Keep in mind that having that weight up over the wheel will make it harder to balance the bike, especially in turns. If you can add some little bags to the sides of the rack so they hang down next to the axle, and put the batteries in there, you'd be better off balance-wise.

btw I will be removeing the peadels (so this e-bike will be a pe bike (puer electric bike))

Check with your local laws first to see if that is allowed, because it isn't everywhere. Here in Arizona, it is not--to remain a bicycle it must have functional pedals. Otherwise, it has to be registered and insured as if it were a motorcycle or whatever, and I doubt that I could get a modified bicycle to *be* insured, and thus couldn't register it, and thus couldn't ride it.

If you still have pedals on it that work, even if you don't use them, you'll probably be fine wherever you are, depending on the power limits imposed by your local laws, and whatever restrictions they have on where you can ride.

here aer the links http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/2...ottle-kit.html

Since it is not a hub motor, you could put it anywhere in the bike you want; I don't know how hot it would get under load in your application, so you might want to find out if it is weather sealed or not, and if it is, leave it where it can stay cool. If it is not, then you'd want to build a weather-resistant box around it that still allows it to be cooled as you ride, especially if you expect snow and rain while riding.

Same goes for the controller.

The throttle is probably just a plastic twist-grip hall-based throttle, so by nature it's reasonably weather resistant, but you might want to seal the wires and hall leads up against water if they are not already sealed (you'd have to ask them).

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24vo12amphob.html

In the other thread, you said it's going to be cold where you are, right? Lead acid will not perform well in the cold unless you keep them heated. You'll probably want to set up your battery case so you can take it off the bike and bring it in with you, so it can stay warm that way, while it's recharging.

If you can't bring it in with you, you will probably want to put a small heater in the box with the batteries and insulate the box, so that it is keeping the batteries within their normal operating temperature range (room temperature is ok, 70-80F). You should check with the manufacturer of the battery to be sure of that.

You should also try to find out what current draw the motor might be expected to have at the speeds you want to go with the weight you want to pull with it. That will help you figure out if these batteries are large enough to do what you want.

If you don't already know about it, you might want to read about the Peukert effect, which basically says that the faster you pull power from a battery (especially lead ones like these) the less total power you will get from them.

Meaning, if your motor pulls say, 12A during riding, you won't get an hour out of a 12Ah battery, you'll get probably less than half that. So you would want to use larger batteries, or parallel sets together.

wath other parts do I needed?!? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, you're going to need something for that motor to connect to on the bike to drive the wheel. I can't tell from the image or specs whether that is a belt pulley or what kind on the motor shaft. You'd have to know what kind of drive is on the end of that shaft, and build a matching setup for the wheel (or bike drivetrain) with whatever diameter is needed to give you the speed and torque you are after, based on that motor's output speed.

Then you'll need whatever belt it uses (or chain/etc), to run to the pulley or sprocket or gear you've put on the wheel or bike drivetrain.

Most likely it is a toothed belt, as that's what I've seen on the little scooters with that type of motor more often than chain. But it might use a small size chain, smaller than bike chain.

It may be possible to remove the drive that's on the motor shaft and replace it with something else, too, if you wanted to drive the bike chain directly, for instance. But it depends on the RPM of the motor whether you have to or not.

You'll need to build a mount for the motor, to hold it into place on the bike wherever you choose to place it, and it will have to be strong enough to hold it there without twisting against the force of pulling the bike along.

You'll need to mount the controller somewhere, preferably in a place that keeps it dry (assuming it's not sealed) but allows cooling.

The throttle would just mount up on your handlebars, in place of half of a grip. If you already have twist gripshifters on both sides, it might need some careful spacing of stuff to make it easy to reach and use both of them plus the throttle.

That won't matter if you remove the pedals, if you don't use the bike's drivetrain, but you can use that drivetrain to make the motor able to run more efficiently when starting up from a stop, and to help gear it down going to the wheel.

[Amberwolf]

Now, as to whether those parts are "good" or not, is relative. I don't know anything about that particular controller, but plenty of people have adapted Currie scooter controllers and motors to run DIY ebike projects; I've seen them around the web as I've looked for info on doing stuff myself.

They may be adequate for running your bike; the motor certainly should be if you get the rest of it's specs from them and appropriately design your drivetrain to hook it to the wheel.

The controller might or might not be adequate (I noted when rereading that it does say its' fully waterproof, so that part is good), partly depending on current draws your bike would have with that motor. It says "30A" but that is probably not continuous--most controllers are rated for maybe a minute at their "specified" current, and 2/3 or even only half that for any length of time, sometimes less.

Putting a bigger heatsink on it, and/or a fan to force cool it, might help, if you ended up needing higher currents out of it for longer.

There are definitely better components you could use, but they're probably going to be a lot more expensive, and these might well do just fine for your application. You just need a little more info about them from the sellers or manufacturers, and then figure out what kind of drivetrain you're going to design and build for it, then how much power that is going to take to run and if the motor, controller, and batteries can handle that.

[ev_nred]

Originally Posted by Amberwolf

Remember with lead, even if you are using only 2x 12Ah batteries, it will ad some significant weight, about 14-20 pounds, depending on what those specific batteries weigh. If you could afford it, I'd strongly recommend almost any other battery type.

Keep in mind that having that weight up over the wheel will make it harder to balance the bike, especially in turns. If you can add some little bags to the sides of the rack so they hang down next to the axle, and put the batteries in there, you'd be better off balance-wise.




Check with your local laws first to see if that is allowed, because it isn't everywhere. Here in Arizona, it is not--to remain a bicycle it must have functional pedals. Otherwise, it has to be registered and insured as if it were a motorcycle or whatever, and I doubt that I could get a modified bicycle to *be* insured, and thus couldn't register it, and thus couldn't ride it.

If you still have pedals on it that work, even if you don't use them, you'll probably be fine wherever you are, depending on the power limits imposed by your local laws, and whatever restrictions they have on where you can ride.



Since it is not a hub motor, you could put it anywhere in the bike you want; I don't know how hot it would get under load in your application, so you might want to find out if it is weather sealed or not, and if it is, leave it where it can stay cool. If it is not, then you'd want to build a weather-resistant box around it that still allows it to be cooled as you ride, especially if you expect snow and rain while riding.

Same goes for the controller.

The throttle is probably just a plastic twist-grip hall-based throttle, so by nature it's reasonably weather resistant, but you might want to seal the wires and hall leads up against water if they are not already sealed (you'd have to ask them).




In the other thread, you said it's going to be cold where you are, right? Lead acid will not perform well in the cold unless you keep them heated. You'll probably want to set up your battery case so you can take it off the bike and bring it in with you, so it can stay warm that way, while it's recharging.

If you can't bring it in with you, you will probably want to put a small heater in the box with the batteries and insulate the box, so that it is keeping the batteries within their normal operating temperature range (room temperature is ok, 70-80F). You should check with the manufacturer of the battery to be sure of that.

You should also try to find out what current draw the motor might be expected to have at the speeds you want to go with the weight you want to pull with it. That will help you figure out if these batteries are large enough to do what you want.

If you don't already know about it, you might want to read about the Peukert effect, which basically says that the faster you pull power from a battery (especially lead ones like these) the less total power you will get from them.

Meaning, if your motor pulls say, 12A during riding, you won't get an hour out of a 12Ah battery, you'll get probably less than half that. So you would want to use larger batteries, or parallel sets together.


Well, you're going to need something for that motor to connect to on the bike to drive the wheel. I can't tell from the image or specs whether that is a belt pulley or what kind on the motor shaft. You'd have to know what kind of drive is on the end of that shaft, and build a matching setup for the wheel (or bike drivetrain) with whatever diameter is needed to give you the speed and torque you are after, based on that motor's output speed.

Then you'll need whatever belt it uses (or chain/etc), to run to the pulley or sprocket or gear you've put on the wheel or bike drivetrain.

Most likely it is a toothed belt, as that's what I've seen on the little scooters with that type of motor more often than chain. But it might use a small size chain, smaller than bike chain.

It may be possible to remove the drive that's on the motor shaft and replace it with something else, too, if you wanted to drive the bike chain directly, for instance. But it depends on the RPM of the motor whether you have to or not.

You'll need to build a mount for the motor, to hold it into place on the bike wherever you choose to place it, and it will have to be strong enough to hold it there without twisting against the force of pulling the bike along.

You'll need to mount the controller somewhere, preferably in a place that keeps it dry (assuming it's not sealed) but allows cooling.

The throttle would just mount up on your handlebars, in place of half of a grip. If you already have twist gripshifters on both sides, it might need some careful spacing of stuff to make it easy to reach and use both of them plus the throttle.

That won't matter if you remove the pedals, if you don't use the bike's drivetrain, but you can use that drivetrain to make the motor able to run more efficiently when starting up from a stop, and to help gear it down going to the wheel.

first off, I would like to say srroy for takeing so long to replay. I have deen very busy . thanks for all the info. but... I have some questiones I would like to ask. where can I buy the rest of the parts? where can I buy any other battieres buy lead aicd? and as for the laws it says I cant ried an ebike until 16 (I am only 14) but fuck them! I am just going to build an ebike to ried up and donw my street (I am trying to persued my dad to let me go to school on it but thta will take some work.) and can you list all the tools and parts I need thanks!

[lottos]

A good ebike reference:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=21