[bbrinkley]

Hello all,

I am new to this forum but not new to the EV world. It has been years since I have done a conversion and I am kicking the Idea of doing one again. Years ago I had a 85 S10 with the 20.9 GE Motor and GE controller (the one that whined real loud) It was a 96 volt that was used for HS comp.

Recently I thought of doing another one. This time more for practical use to and from work and for general use/Hobby.

My idea was to do a Ranger with a AC-50/Curtis combo and Direct drive. Years ago I remeber I only used 2 and 3rd gear in the S10. My thought is with the higher RPM of the AC I could run a DD with like 5.13 gears. This would give me a rpm about 4800 @ 65 MPH with 25.5 size tires. I am not looking for anything to race or run really past that.

Batterys are still up in the air. I am leaning towards lead acid just due to the cost. Range is important however its not the deciding factor. I would be happy to achieve 40 miles with careful driving.

I have the skills in electrical and FAB. I can Mig, Tig and machine.

My main concerns is how you guys think the direct drive would work as I like the ease of a simple forward/reverse.

Thanks

Brian

[onegreenev]

AC-50 is low voltage and low torque. A bit wimpy for an S-10. I'd go once again with a GE motor and a modern controller and lithium batteries.

[bbrinkley]

Originally Posted by onegreenev

AC-50 is low voltage and low torque. A bit wimpy for an S-10. I'd go once again with a GE motor and a modern controller and lithium batteries.

Thanks for the reply,

However It is a ranger I am looking at doing, not an S10 (the s10 has been gone for years.)

Where does one get a GE motor as I have not seen them recently and can only assume your refering to the older DC versions.

unfortantally, I would love lithium batteries, however unless the prices have gone down, there is no way I can budget it.

Brian

[onegreenev]

I think after you consider your distance issue you need to factor in cold weather losses too. Figure your needs for worst case. In that light lithium do look favorable. Most Lead Acid will really last about 2 years under heavy usage and will give a realistic 35 mile range at decent speeds to medium speeds. The cost to purchase lead acid vs lithium if you calculate for a life of at least 150,000 miles will need to be done and lithium usually comes out on top. With excellent performance and lighter weight vehicle and batteries you don't have to worry about you are better off with lithium. You think you can't budget them in but you can. Consider how much you spend on gasoline. Consider how much you spent on gasoline in the past 5 years. If you can buy the gas you can figure out how to budget lithiums. Bit the bullet and just do it. I am no stranger to a tight budget.

S-10 or Ranger. Look for some good used GE motors or maybe some good used Warp motors and yes I am talking DC and not AC.

Pete

[bbrinkley]

Pete,

When you put it that way, your right, I really should factor the long term on the style of batteries. Cold weather really won't be an issue as I live in Phoenix.

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas.

Brian

[dragonsgate]

I will be the last person to knock lithium batteries but the argument of cost can be misleading. I have been running 8volt deep cycles for a good twelve years. I am on my third pack. In those twelve years I have invested $5,300 total. Had I started out with lithium in 1999 the chances are I would be needing or getting real close to needing a new set of batteries about now. At this point I will reiterate that I think lithium’s are great and if I win the lottery I will be more than happy to plunk down the ten grand or so for a pack of lithium batteries. But until then it is easier to come up with the money for lead every three and a half years with out having to go into debt and pay interest to boot.

[dougingraham]

Originally Posted by bbrinkley

My main concerns is how you guys think the direct drive would work as I like the ease of a simple forward/reverse.

To go direct drive you need a really lightweight vehicle and a lot of torque. I think if you used lithium batteries you would obtain a driveable vehicle with a usable 40 mile range. But it wont be fast and probably not a lot of fun. I doubt this would be the case if you use Lead Acid.

Assuming a 40 mile range and 350wh/mile you need a minimum pack size of 14kwh. Since you want a Curtis setup you can go at most 130 volts which means 36 lithium cells. To get 14kwh you need 122AH cells. Since you dont want to ruin your cells you will want to do at most an 80% DOD so this increases to 152AH. The next largest cell above this is 160AH from Winston and Hi Power but I dont know how easy those are to get. Beyond that are CALB and Sinopoly at 180AH. 160AH * 36 cells = 18.4kwh and 180AH * 36 cells = 20.7kwh. The 160AH pack should give around 53 miles range and the 180AH pack should give around 59 miles drop dead.

A pack of 160AH cells would weigh something over 394 lbs (179kg) and 180AH would weigh 444 lbs (202kg). This is probably going to increase the weight of the vehicle slightly over stock. Certainly less than 100 lbs once you remove all the ICE stuff.

You are looking at a lot more weight in Lead Acid. I think about 5 times as much at least to get similar range when the LA batts are new. I will let someone else do the LA calculations. I dont think you would be happy at all with the acceleration if you are carrying around 2000lbs of lead on direct drive.

I think it is barely practical to do an AC50/Curtis setup sans transmission on Lithium. I don't think it is practical at all if you use Lead Acid batteries. I suspect you will have an EV grimace if you attempt this.

[dragonsgate]

Originally Posted by dougingraham

You are looking at a lot more weight in Lead Acid. I think about 5 times as much at least to get similar range when the LA batts are new. I will let someone else do the LA calculations. I dont think you would be happy at all with the acceleration if you are carrying around 2000lbs of lead on direct drive.

I think it is barely practical to do an AC50/Curtis setup sans transmission on Lithium. I don't think it is practical at all if you use Lead Acid batteries. I suspect you will have an EV grimace if you attempt this.

I was just making comment on the fact that I have not spent as much on lead over the years as I would on Lithium. I would really rather have a lithium pack. Depending on amp hours Lithium’s could shave 400 pounds or more of my fla pack weight. Even with the lighter Lithium I don’t think a direct drive will be satisfactory unless you use a motor capable of high rpm to compensate for the low gear ratio you will have to use. You might think about a two speed slip and slide or something like a high dollar Lenco. I mean if you have braced yourself for the price of a Lithium battery pack why not spend the extra few thousand dollars on a gearbox? I am not trying to be facetious it’s just that the topic of direct drive has come up more that once and the general consensus has been it is unlikely to work right unless you have a very large budget to work with.

[bbrinkley]

Thanks everyone for the input so far.

The direct drive was just an idea as seeing the ac-50 would safely run 6000 RPMS (or so i have read) it just seemed feesable with a high gear ratio. I based this on the fact of my previous EV and the fact I only used 2 gears. Again this was a thought and I was seeking input on the Idea as you guys are the ones with current running EVs.

I too would love Lithum batteries but with the cost it puts my project projection back years! I want this more as a toy/hobbie and would ocasionally use it to commute just to say I could.

The more I think about it the more I will end up with a Tranny and then If I feel its feasable to ditch the tranny I can weigh in on that then.

It would be real nice to hear from someone that owns a AC-50 system as it seems to be a power upgrade from my previous EV.

[HPEVS]

The AC50 on 115 volts works well in S10's & Rangers as long as you keep the manual trans and shift it. The new 144 volt system produces 110 ft lbs of torque to 4000 RPM which is more than sufficient to run a small P/U truck. My daily driver is a Scion xB which weighs in at 3400 pounds running the AC51/144 volt system, it makes a great commuter vehicle. Top speed is 90+.

Brian