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Old 08-11-2012, 03:00 PM
Sparrow159 Sparrow159 is offline
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Default NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

I saw this on the EV Car Parts site and after a quick search I didn't see any discussion on these. Just curious if anyone else is looking at them or has been adventurous enough to buy a few and test them?

NEB Super Caps
10-100Ah, 3.2V, 5C-30C
LiFePo4 Lithium
Super Capacitor Batteries

At $2.50 an AH it's pricey but the 25C discharge and 5K cycles looks somewhat cost effective. I had heard of this tech being in development but didn't realize they are already here.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:21 PM
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Ziggythewiz Ziggythewiz is offline
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Default Re: NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

They've been around for a while, but straight lithium will likely always be more bang for your buck.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:46 PM
Sparrow159 Sparrow159 is offline
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Default Re: NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

I just did the math, $11K for a 144V 100AH NEB Supercap pack. You can get a 180 AH pack of Calbs for slightly less and still have a 3C discharge = 540 AH. I only use about 250 AH when I drive anyway. However, if your plan was to drag race or if the price comes down.....
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

Hobby lipo blows that out of the water for price and C rating!
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:33 PM
ruckus ruckus is offline
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Default Re: NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

Let's see...

CALB 60ah x 120cells = 534lbs... 600A @10C max, 180A @3C cont.
NEB 60ah x 120cells = 457lbs... 1500A @25C max, 300A @5C cont.

NEB pack is 77lbs lighter.

CALB 100ah x 120cells = 900lbs!... 1000A @10C max, 300A @3C cont.
.NEB 100ah x 120cells = 740lbs.... 2500A @25C max, 500A @5C cont.

NEB pack is 160 lbs lighter. That is a good chunk of the weight of a Motor (depending on your motor).

Considering that the Scott Drive 200 system will require 600+A peak and ~200A continuous, that puts the CALB's on their knees. The specs suggest the NEB's could withstand that type of use a lot better.

And then there's the weight thing...

I am seriously considering the NEB's.

Not to give anything away, but if you start talking about 800++ Amp (400v) controllers then the battery field narrows considerably and the CALB's become pretty marginal unless you are building a heavy long-range pack.

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Last edited by ruckus; 12-22-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:57 PM
ruckus ruckus is offline
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Default Re: NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

Let's see...

CALB 60ah x 120cells = 534lbs... 600A @10C max, 180A @3C cont.
NEB 60ah x 120cells = 457lbs... 1500A @25C max, 300A @5C cont.

NEB pack is 77lbs lighter.

CALB 100ah x 120cells = 900lbs!.. 1000A @10C max, 300A @3C cont.
NEB 100ah x 120cells = 740lbs... 2500A @25C max, 500A @5C cont.

NEB pack is 160 lbs lighter. That is a significant portion of the weight of a Motor (depending on your motor).

Considering that the Scott Drive 200 system will require 600+A peak and 200A continuous, that puts the CALB's on their knees. The specs suggest the NEB's could withstand that type of use a lot better.

And then there's the weight thing...

I am very much considering the NEB's.

Not to give anything away, but if you start talking about 400V 800++A controllers then the battery field narrows considerably and the CALB's are marginal unless you are building a heavy long-range pack.

Cheers
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Last edited by ruckus; 12-22-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

CALB 60ah x 120cells = 534lbs... 600A @10C max, 180A @3C cont.
Considering that the Scott Drive 200 system will require 600+A peak and 200A continuous, that puts the CALB's on their knees.

Only on their knees at 309 horsepower(subtract motor efficiency from that). How long do you need to draw that much? I wouldn't necessarily say that are on their knees unless you have your foot buried for a long time, are going from accelerator to brake and back continuously, have a very heavy car, or climbing a mountain. Oh wait, blue CALB SE cells already did that with Pike's peak.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:02 AM
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Default Re: NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow159 View Post
I saw this on the EV Car Parts site and after a quick search I didn't see any discussion on these.
Actually, we talked about them just the other day.
In this post I had an analysis of them, showing that, from a power handling stand point, they are smack in the middle of the range of all the cells and batteries we analyzed (twice as good as for Sinopoly / CALB / Winston prismatic cells, slightly better than the A123 20 Ah cells, far worse than power rated pouch cells). They are the orange bar in this graph.

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Old 12-24-2012, 09:34 AM
ruckus ruckus is offline
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Default Re: NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

Elithion, looks like I will be giving you a call. You are ahead of the curve on this one...

Merry Christmas Everyone!
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: NEB Super Capacitor Lithium Battery

Here's another interesting graph.
It shows relative value for various Li-ion cells for power applications.
For a given amount of money and a given battery efficiency, you may be better off getting more, low power, cheaper cells, than getting fewer, high power, more expensive cells. The battery will bigger, yes, but the range will be longer too. (I'd say that that's what Tesla did.)



(Note: prices fluctuate a lot, so this graph is subject to change.)
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