[sciautusditio]

Posting an updated drawing to the axile flux Halbach pancake motor with 16 magnet poles (X2) and 15 coil windings (X2). Can someone run a simulation on this and let us know what would be the best coil configurations (guage, and # of turns)?

[Bugzuki]

I might be able to draw up some plans in Pro/Engineer if you want. That way we could work out the exact design and dimensions of things before someone starts building and rebuilding. Also, we would be building to a design, then if changes are needed it would be much easier to track and document those changes.

I do not really understand how the magnets would be arranged to create the Halbach array. The dounut picture you posted is a flat circular array of magnets. These magnet create an enhanced magnetic field on one side (the side that faces the stator). There would then be a mirror array on the other side of the stator. Right? I take it the arrows are the direction of flux movement? What are the x's and o's for. How would the North and South poles of the magnets be arranged to create the one sided effect?

[sciautusditio]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halbach_array

Thanks for making me take a second look at the symbols, I have them in reverse, I'll do a follow up artwork change. But correctly stated the (0)donut shape is North facing the stator and the XXX is South facing the stator.
Sorry for any confusion.

With one rotor side it would be like each H. array making a horse shoe magnet with one pole facing the outter stator and the second pole facing the center stator. We get a double bang from having a miror image PM rotor, offset one magnetic cog, sandwiching the stator.

Bugzuki,
I would love to take you up on the drawing, for my CAD skills are very weak. I am currently trying to learn what I can for the stator coils, but the next step is to go junk yard hopping to see if there are any brake drums or such, prefer aluminum, that may fit the bill for a rotor shell.

I am thinking of using sch 80 steel pipe for the axil and turning it down to create a sholder for the bearings.

No set plan yet for the stator mounting to the axil, but I will need a star hub that can take the motor HP force, and I will mold it into a carbon fiber layup with the coils. I am planning the same layup for the magnets in the shells.

Currently working on getting magnets on order to begin testing H array (this will be a few weeks).

[unclematt]

Can people please do me a favor and post if you are an electrical engineer or have experience actually building motors? We seem to be getting off on all kinds of tangents instead of discussing the actual design and build of a wheel motor, as the thread title states. I understand that people have ideas, but I recomend you start a new thread to discuss your thoughts on alternate topics.

We need to decide on our wheel motor objectives and then figure out ways to achieve them.

[unclematt]

Hi-Pa Drive is an integrated motor and drive electronics in one unit.

Hi-Pa Drive is ultra high power density - 20 times more than conventional systems

Hi-Pa Drive is ultra reliable – 20 times more reliable than conventional systems

Providing high torque in a lightweight flat motor package, Hi-Pa Drive is ideally suited to vehicle in wheel drives, where its impact on suspension dynamics is minimal.

HPD40
HPD35
HPD30
Torque (max)
750Nm
500Nm
350Nm
Speed (max)
2000rpm
2000rpm
2000rpm
Power (max)
120kW
80kW
40kW
Mass
25kg
21kg
18kg

Key Features:~
Full Regenerative Braking down to very low speed
Full holding torque at zero speed
Wide speed range
Built in brake resistor (for full charge regeneration situations)
Hand / parking brake option available
Heavy duty bearing system

Inputs
+ve power
400vdc max 200A
Uv power

Throttle input
pwm 20khz
Brake input
pwm 20khz
TC Input
pwm 20khz
Forward
digital 24v pos true
Reverse
digital 24v pos true
Enable
digital 24v pos true
CanBus

Here is some information posted on PML Flightlink's website. The fact that they are using variable DC and a brushless design is interesting, and may be a viable design otpion for us as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like they have a large, brushless motor much like a motor used on RC planes. I read elsewhere that their motor is a "28 phase" design. Can anyone enlighten me as to what this means exactly? Does this mean permanent magnet number? poles? what?

Can anyone else offer constructive analysis of the PML information? Can we glean any further design ideas from this info?

[unclematt]

oops, I have a correction: PML says it is a 24 phase, not a 28 phase:
from the PML website

"Specifications:

Motors
4 x 750Nm 1800rpm high efficiency Brushless permanent magnet sine wave Hi-Pa drive™ 24 phase water-cooled

Drive electronics
4 x 480Amp 450V Hi-Pa drive™ 24 phase sine wave inverter IGBT water cooled CAN bus communications

Battery
300V nominal 70Amp Hour Lithium Polymer 700Amp peak

Battery Management system
Active cell balancing, temperature and voltage monitoring CAN bus communications

Ultra Capacitor
350V 11 Farad 700Amp limited

Energy re–circulator
1400Amp continuous IGBT water cooled CAN bus communications

Generator
Engine250cc 2 cylinder 4 stroke gasoline 15kW at 7000rpmGenerator20kW continuous at 250V 80AmpController350V 80Amp water-cooled CAN bus communications"



Can we use any of this to reverse engineer our own design that is close, but not exactly the same?

[Darrell]

I've been thinking about this for a while. Just about every rotating part on a car could be used as a rotor in a motor. For example a truck drive shaft could be fitted magnets and be used as a rotor for an electric motor. Instant hybrid! Drive shafts and easily accessible and it's the perfect location for added weight.

Why are we making a big deal out of this? Somebody could be

My 2000 Metro has a unique feature on one of the drive shafts. Part of the drive shaft is stationary and doesn't pivot. It's like a shaft extension just waiting to be used for a hybrid. I was thinking of connecting to it with a thick 4 inch belt and a motor, but of how exactly to connect it.

It seems to me to best way make a hybrid would be to use the existing shaft as the motor rotor.

What do you guys think?

[manic_monkey]

Originally Posted by Darrell

I've been thinking about this for a while. Just about every rotating part on a car could be used as a rotor in a motor. For example a truck drive shaft could be fitted magnets and be used as a rotor for an electric motor. Instant hybrid! Drive shafts and easily accessible and it's the perfect location for added weight.

the material of the driveshaft likely not suitable for electric motors. its magnetic qualities have to be right for the motor to achieve decent efficiency.

even if we assume it is made of the right stuff, you still have to fit magnets to it, build and fit field coils around it, put a bearing at either end of the shaft to ensure it runs true with the correct rotor to field gap at all points. it would be less work to just fit a off the shelf motor

Originally Posted by Darrell

My 2000 Metro has a unique feature on one of the drive shafts. Part of the drive shaft is stationary and doesn't pivot. It's like a shaft extension just waiting to be used for a hybrid. I was thinking of connecting to it with a thick 4 inch belt and a motor, but of how exactly to connect it.

If its a front wheel drive car, it has a seperate shaft for each side, seperated by a differential. you cant power just 1 side.

Originally Posted by Darrell

It seems to me to best way make a hybrid would be to use the existing shaft as the motor rotor.

What do you guys think?

i think your wrong

[unclematt]

Hi All,
I started this thread origianally, but since then have had to deal with my construction business shutting down and a few other things that took all my time. I apologize for abandoning the thread for so long. I have yet to even read all that has been posted since I stopped, but will do that tonight.

I have a couple of ideas I have been considering, including using silver wire instead of copper for windings, and have also been looking at the Gemini motor design here. This design has PM's at both ends of the coils, using the magnetic field on both sides instead of just one as is traditional. Check out the site and illustrations and then comment.

Again, sorry for the long absence.

[unclematt]

I see a lot of people viewing the thread lately, but not many posting. Please feel free to contribute to the thread. :-)