[ilikestuff]

I was looking at the red beastie in the EV album, and now I changed my mind - instead of doing a standard S-10 conversion, here's what I'm thinking:

- A Ford F150 regular cab, short-bed (6.5' long), but extra heavy payload capacity
- 156v system, either a warp 11" or a crazy chinese AC motor (which is what I'm going to try using)
- 52 batteries, Trojan T105 6v batteries, 67lbs each (26 in series to make the 156 voltage, both sets in parallel to almost double the AH)
- Orig Curb weight = approx 3900 lbs
- Orig GVW = 7500 lbs (note I need to find one with a larger, let's say 1 ton, payload)
- Batteries = 3500 lbs (67lbs x 52 batteries)
- net curb weight with batteries = 3,900 - 1000 (for ICE et al) + 3,500 =6400 lbs
- Fully loaded, ie with a couple people and some cargo -> 6,400 + 600 cargo = 7000 lbs, leaving a payload of 500 lbs before hitting GVW

Here's what I'm trying to do: Create a commuter, ie. an every day, 40 mile drive entirely at highway speeds (let's say 70mph), where I don't have to change my batteries more than once every 4 years, and do it all under $12k including the donor (and $2800 is already gone for the motor, controller & inverter).

See any problems with it? Any advice is welcome, this will be our first attempt.
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SXV450

[TX_Dj]

You'll need to start with a V6 donor, as the V6 is the only model of F150 available with a manual transmission. That may make your donor search a little more difficult since the V6 is uncommon in and of itself, and the V6 + Manual is even less common.

Also, by comparison, my design goals are similar in an S10, with an estimated finished weight of 4100 lbs, leaving 500 lbs payload capacity (not counting driver/passenger), with the same speed/range goals, with a projected max range of 60 miles.

An S10 4-cylinder gets about 20-25 mpg, whereas an F150 6-cylinder gets 16-18 mpg. Part of this is due to the engine, the rest is due to weight and drag. The weight and drag are things that you have less influence over than the engine efficiency when doing a conversion of this sort.

The Red Beastie was a mini truck- and well beyond it's GVWR. But most of its weight was battery- not truck. Either way, there is a diminishing return on adding lots of batteries to a truck. The Red Beastie had an advantage. It was small, and low drag. An F150 does not have that advantage, even at the same weight.

[ilikestuff]

Thx for the donor tip! That's what I'll look for - although I might also look for a chevy or something else as well if I can find one.

I'd love to have an S-10 that I can regularly drive 50 miles at 75MPH the whole way with a final curb weight of 4100 with batteries, and have the batteries last 3-4 years. However, the only way I can figure one can do all of that is by using LiFePO4 or NiMH batteries, whereas I'm planning on lead (can't get NiMH and don't yet trust LiFePO4 (and they're more expensive)).

Red beastie had 40 batteries, weighing probably 2700lbs. Are you thinking your curb weight would be 1400 lbs pre-batteries?

If I could do it with an s-10, I'd much prefer it - in fact that was our original plan. However, I'm leery about exceeding GVW by a large amount.

And if we don't go with a parallel set of batteries (e.g. 48 batteries instead of 24 for a 144v system), I don't see how I can meet my performance goals without using LiFePO4 batteries.
________
F5

[TX_Dj]

I believe the beastie used T-105s, which weigh 62 lbs each according to Trojan, for a total battery weight of 2520 lbs, plus whatever the battery racks weighed. The curb weight as reported by the evalbum was 5260 lbs, and edmunds.com indicates the curb weight in ICE configuration was 2690 lbs and a max payload of 1710 lbs. That would equate to a GVWR of 4400 lbs, an 860 lbs discrepancy before even considering driver/passenger/etc weight.

My S10 weighs about 2700 lbs as it stood on the day I brought it home. If I figure I'm removing about 500 lbs in the form of ICE and associated components, and adding 1700 lbs of batteries and about 300 lbs of other items, that's about 4200 lbs. Give or take.

Based on my exact needs, I only require about 27 miles charge for my daily needs, but the Ah capacity of the batteries I will use should get me almost 60 miles at 50% discharge, 80 miles if I go below that. Since I am wanting to maximize the longevity of my battery investment, I really don't want to go below 50% on a regular basis.

For my weekly commuting, I drive about 130 miles a week (26 * 5 = 130), while other trips usually round that out to about 200 per week, with a 40 mile trip to see my chiropractor about every 2 weeks. If we figure 52 weeks with at least 130 miles per week, we get (130 * 52 = 6760) miles per year, give or take considering holidays just for my commute to the office and back on weekdays. Most weeks also get an extra 30-40 miles for various errands, (30 * 52 = 1560, 40 * 52 = 2080) and then approximately 26 visits to the chiropractor per year (40 * 26 = 1040). If we put this all together, we get (6760 + 1560 + 1040 = 9360 miles) or (6760 + 2080 + 1040 = 9880 miles) per year that I can drive with the EV vs. ICE. If we figure that my replacement pack will be about $3000, and if we figure gas to be $3.899/gal, then we're looking at (3000 / 3.899 = 769.4 gallons) equivalent to replace the pack. Then, if we consider I will use the EV vs. ICE for 9360-9880 miles per year and if we averaged 20 MPG over that period for my ICE truck, I'd have to drive (769.4 * 20 = 15,388 miles) in the EV for the gas savings to pay for my next pack, which translates to (15388 / 9360 = 1.64 years) or (15388 / 9880 = 1.55 years) of not driving gas for these miles in order to pay for the replacement pack.

It is quite hot in TX, and doesn't get very cold in this part, I'd expect to have to replace my batteries every 3-4 years, which means if it's 3 years, then I'll save $1000/yr over gas on those same miles in order to pay for the replacement that way. *shrug*

Like I keep telling folks- I'm not doing this for the numbers... I'm mostly doing it because it's the right thing to do, it fits my needs, and I can cruise past the gas stations and laugh at all the people pouring money into their tanks so they can burn it.

[xrotaryguy]

Originally Posted by ilikestuff

- 156v system, either a warp 11" or a crazy chinese AC motor (which is what I'm going to try using)

Whoa! you got an AC motor and controller for under 3 grand? You link is not working. Can you send a link that does work. Is it possible that the seller has disappeared with $2,800?

[ilikestuff]

XRotaryguy:
Sorry, link is fixed - here is the motor I'm (hopefully) buying:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=200236785116

It's coming COD, so I'm sure I'll get something for the $2800. My main concern is that it's a piece of garbage, since it's from China with no warranty expressed or implied. But I couldn't pass it up price-wise, might wind up getting burned though.


TX_Dj:
Sounds like we have similar requirements in terms of range & longevity. What batteries are you using to get 60 miles at 50% DOD in an S-10? Did you land some fancy batteries? Hmm... you say your pack is 1700lbs... Do you have your hands on the Firefly Oasis battery?
________
hot box vaporizer

[TX_Dj]

Nothing special. Those numbers apply to a T145 or US185HC as the module type, and are based on some rough numbers. Essentially I will have a vehicle that is lighter than the Beastie was (before conversions) that will be lighter than the Beastie was (after conversions) with just over half as many batteries with more Ah than a single string on the Beastie. The Beastie got 120+ miles per charge... Heck, back when John still owned the Beastie, I remember reading his story about using it to tow a trailer with 3 other EVs on it, and it STILL got impressive mileage

[O'Zeeke]

ilikestuff, i saw that motor on ebay and was impressed by the metal shipping case. My warp11 arrived in a cardboard box strapped to a cheap pallet and as i found out had a bent shaft (check it out in the Garage) so back it went. They need to take a lesson from china on shipping. Good luck with the conversion

[quote=ilikestuff;62117]

It's coming COD, so I'm sure I'll get something for the $2800. My main concern is that it's a piece of garbage, since it's from China with no warranty expressed or implied. But I couldn't pass it up price-wise, might wind up getting burned though.