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RIPPERTON Electric track bike

735K views 1K replies 105 participants last post by  Abhishek e 
#1 · (Edited)
Index:
page:
1-8 trash talkin
9 Magura throttle
11 Kelly controller
12 Life tech cells
13 Motenergys arrive
17 LiPo cells
19 Motenergy ME0913
21-24 magnets
27 first track outing
30 custom rotor
32 ramair
33-34 first round 2011 eFXC Eastern Creek racing & trophy
35 battery design
38-40 water cooling
41 air cooling controllers
42 new higher voltage LiPo pack 177v and controller probs
43 round 2 eFXC 2011 Winton
44 round 3 eFXC 2011 Wakefield
47 blown motors
48 Swingarm pivotectomy
51 fan forced air cooling for controllers
53-54 40s10p LiPo pack
55 141kg weigh in
59 charging process
60 BMS
61 Wakefield 2012 & Boost function
63 damaged LiPo's, 12v power source, weight distribution
63-64 Currie thumb throttle as regen lever
64 Revision A stators
65 YGS LiPo
65 Willowbank eFXC
66 The QuadStack begins
73-74 Electroless Nickel Plating
76-77 YGS LiPo pack 42s10p
77-78 twin Kelly controllers for 1200A
78 QuadStack outrigger bearing and stator temp monitors
79-80 testing, 12.5 second quarter 200kmh. busted synch chain
81 oil slicks, dynos & GSXR radiators.
82 The competition, Varley, quad water pumps, New YGS lipo's Wheelspin video
83-85 first round 2013 eFXC Wakefield
84 more synch chain drama and 154hp dyno run
86 battery case cooling ducts SMP test session
88 pit cooling fan and Caveman V Alien
89 chain lube guard and first crash
90 twin battery packs (quick swap) and eFXC round 2 Queensland
91 cooling fans on the LiPo pack
93 Round 3 eFXC Sydney Motorsport Park and hydraulic regen lever
95 Welded Kilovac
96 2013 Australian eFXC champion !!!!!!!!!
98 Windows 8.1, motor rebuild, Battery and motor rebuild
100 2014 eFXC QLD race report
101/102 Winton 2014 race report
103 New Kelly's
104 Wakefield 2014 race report.
106 Copper Mosfet heat sinks, Brammo
107 SMP 2014 race report.
108 cameras, photos, Kelly single box.
109 the Quadstack gets the CHOP, Mallala race report
110 Mallala, accelerometer readings, got brakes ?
111 The wrong magnets, bloody Chinese.
112 CNC cutting Neodymium magnets.
113 Round 3 eFXC SMP Sydney 2015
114 Round 4 eFXC QLD 2015 and my first LIPo fire
115 Round 5 eFXC Wakefield 2015
116 Round 6 eFXC Winton 2015
117 Round 7 eFXC SMP Sydney and rain tires
118 Round 7 New rider Brad Swallow and Mugen Shinden Go
119 Phillip Island First Club Race / Mallala round 1 eFXC.
120 battery autopsy and rebuild 42s 12p 8.4kWh pack.
124 42s12p pack track test and blown motor.
125 QLD round 2 eFXC another blown motor.
126 SMP round 3 eFXC Ripperton's first crash.
500,000 views on the 21-09-2016
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Hi people new guy here.
Im E-verting my 98 Yamaha R1 track bike.
Ive had this bike since 2002 and have done 50k km on road, lost my license and track biked it. got it down to 145kg in ICE format. (worlds lightest R1)
But Ive become thoroughly disgusted with all things combustion hence the E-vert.
This project has very specific design criteria the most interesting of which is it only has to run for 20 minutes.
Top speed 280kmh
Built weight 110kg
Motor is a Mars Electric Double Stack PMAC ME0913
which doesnt come on the market untill Feb 14 2010
Battery is A123 26650 solderless framing 120v 13.8Ah 720 pA
Controller is a Kelly 120v 600A.
Heres a couple of shots of the frame reinforcment.
3D model of motor and bat stack
 

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#5 ·
Yes Ive been pestering Mr Fiorenza for over year since I found out he was modifying the standard AC motor. Hes just added a second set of windings on the other side of the rotor. They are timed together
I only found out about it because I was hell bent on using an AC motor in my bike and was nosey enough to ask him if he had anything better than the 3001. Zero ebikes have also tested this motor
He will ship a sample to you. Hes just quoted $550 plus shipping to me this morning.
John has tested at 72v 400A but dont have figures.
I look at a motor as just a transmission. it will put out 85% of whatever you put into it as long as it doesnt melt. The more you can cool it the more amps it will handle granted the shaft and keyways dont break.
The real motor is the battery and controller.
Im developing a ram air cooling system for my R1. The motor will have aluminium ducts around either end and it will snort large volumes of kinetic wind.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Hi people new guy here.
Im E-verting my 98 Yamaha R1 track bike.
Ive had this bike since 2002 and have done 50k km on road, lost my license and track biked it. got it down to 145kg in ICE format. (worlds lightest R1)
But Ive become thoroughly disgusted with all thing combustion hence the E-vert.
This project has very specific design criteria the most interesting of which is it only has to run for 20 minutes.
Top speed 280kmh
Built weight 110kg
Motor is a Mars Electric Double Stack PMAC ME0913
which doesnt come on the market untill Feb 14 2010
Battery is A123 26650 solderless framing 120v 13.8Ah 720 pA
Controller is a Kelly 120v 600A.
Heres a couple of shots of the frame reinforcment.



this bike is going to be one hell of a ride am guessing it could even give the "killacycle" a run for its money or I am I carzy!?!:D:eek: oh and how much will it cost to build!
 
#7 · (Edited)
how much will it cost to build!
Motor $600
Controller $1600
240 x A123 $1680
end frames $100
Toothed drive belt and pullies $300
2x 60v Battery chargers $1200
$5400 plus

Heres a cross section of the Double Stack with my plans to improve the air flow
 

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#11 ·
Hi people new guy here.
Im E-verting my 98 Yamaha R1 track bike.
Ive had this bike since 2002 and have done 50k km on road, lost my license and track biked it. got it down to 145kg in ICE format. (worlds lightest R1)
But Ive become thoroughly disgusted with all thing combustion hence the E-vert.
This project has very specific design criteria the most interesting of which is it only has to run for 20 minutes.
Top speed 280kmh
Built weight 110kg
Motor is a Mars Electric Double Stack PMAC ME0913
which doesnt come on the market untill Feb 14 2010
Battery is A123 26650 solderless framing 120v 13.8Ah 720 pA
Controller is a Kelly 120v 600A.
Heres a couple of shots of the frame reinforcment.
SOOO...you want a topspeed of 280km/h with a single mars motor???
do i get this right?

take a look at the new A123 15Ah cells....i think it a better choice than the 26650...
 
#12 · (Edited)
Hey I can dream.
Is that the 32113 you mean.
going to be too heavy to get 120v and also the Peak Amps that I want.

Mock up time
the red stripe on the swing arm is the gap I have to cut to get the Tbelt in. A block is going to be bolted back in across the gap inside the RHS
Synchroflex GenIII AT10 25mm wide 10900N tensile strength.
 

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#15 ·
Sure but the original R1 weighed 190kg with fuel, mine will weigh 110kg.
Plus dont forget the ME0193 IS 2 motors in one.

The Mavizen is a design fail. Did you know Agni's are cast iron !! So are Perms
too heavy and you literally cant crash it.
If you lay that thing on its side you are up for a couple of hundred dollars in new brushes and frames. If you crash at speed you will destroy at least one motor completely.
My bike will be like a 250cc GP bike literally
At 110kg I will ride past any bike in a corner except for a 125ccGP bike.
It will exceed 200 no problems.
 
#19 ·
Battery weighes 20kg
rolling chassis weighes 63kg (Dymag Carbon Wheels)
motor, mounts, cooling ducts 16kg
controller 3.5kg..................102.5

1 Mars weighes 14kg
1 Agni weighes 11kg
2 Agni's weigh 22kg

I cant understand how that RS125 weighes 115kg
He sure did something wrong

??? wake up and stop dreaming ???

How dare you tell me to wake up !!!!!
were all in the same boat here mate, no need to be rude
 
#21 ·
Build it and see what you get. Your talking to people with experience doing just that, either listen to them, or go and make some experiments to see for yourself. They are only trying to help!

I've tried MARS motors and Agni's back to bak, you'd need 3 mars motors to match 2 Agni's, and you'd still be short on power (and much much heavier).

20KG of LifePo4 battery's will get you about 2kw/h or less, enough for 20 miles range at less than 30mph, or around 10 miles at 60mph (about the top speed for one MARS motor IMO).
The RS125 had twice this amount of batts, hence the extra few KG's..


Lots of bikes didnt crash (in fact, only one crashed at all, and not on the main race day), you seem intent on disregarding any evidence...
Any bike that crashes will not finish, and any bike that crashes at speed damages more than a £750 motor (besides, ever heard of crash bars?).
The motors being ventilated like that allows for more power to be used continuously, best location for them.

Good luck, hope you learn from your efforts!
 
#22 · (Edited)
What kind of Mars motors did you test ?
3001 ?

Sure I may not have enough battery, easy to fix that one and still come in under what the bike used to weigh (145kg) Need to have 40km range

Sure Ive heard of crash bars but neither the Mavizen or the Agni entry had them.
You can bring the motor to the air or you can do the intelligent thing and bring the air to the motor.
 
#25 ·
I should have said in my first post that this is my first real Ebike construction and thus am open to constructive critisism, even a helping hand but definately NOT smart alecky rudeness.
but on the other hand am a professional Mechanical Designer Mechanic and Inventor. I have been riding racing and rebuild bikes since I was 7.
We will definately be learning from each other.
 
#26 ·
The Controller will not give you 600 amp continuously, maybe for a few seconds. Voltage sag under load might take you to 90 volts or so. Controller and motor efficiency might be around 85%, less under high load. I'd guess you'll have less than 60 HP out of the motor. Will that be enough to meet your goals?
 
#27 ·
if you can increase current can you increase the power of the motor for the same voltage? im only asking cause it might seem practical here to include a SuperCap bank. If you figure how long the controller can supply 600amps. say you match that time at 600amps with a bank of SuperCaps. would you not have say 1200 amps on tap for a short burst of increase power?


***
i only have basic electrical knowledge but have built some DIY-Audio amps. my questions might seem out of place but im still trying to learn and figure things out about EV motors and systems.
 
#28 ·
Two problems. First,the caps still have to push their power through the controller, and it's the controller that's limiting the amperage. Second, even bypassing the controller, caps just don't hold enough energy, you might get a split second of power from a cap bank that would fit on a bike and you'd be better served with more batteries in the same space. Some people have used a battery bank that could be switched directly to the motor bypassing the controller, but the proper solution is to just use a higher power controller.
 
#30 ·
but wouldnt the controller rob some voltage/current. then if you just bypassed it when needed? to me it just seems logical when needed a more direct connection to the supply would be best. i just see the controller as a point of failure or robbing some energy from the transfer from point to point.
 
#31 ·
Well your bypass mechanism is also a point of failure, but yes you would avoid some losses when bypassing the controller. That still does not address the fact that caps won't do much for you and you'd be better off with more batteries. None of the major NEDRA guys use caps or bypass the controller.
 
#33 ·
When the controller is at full on it's essentially not controlling anything, so bypassing it gives you the same effect, without the losses inside the controller. You could have a contactor that is activated at full throttle switching the pack directly to the motor. Some people have done this and it does work. I don't recommend it and think a properly sized controller is the way to go, but it can work.
 
#38 ·
When the controller is at full on it's essentially not controlling anything, so bypassing it gives you the same effect, without the losses inside the controller. You could have a contactor that is activated at full throttle switching the pack directly to the motor. Some people have done this and it does work. I don't recommend it and think a properly sized controller is the way to go, but it can work.
That works on DC motors
Im brushless
 
#37 ·
On a race track built weight does effect top speed because on the main straight which is the only place you will see anything close to top speed, the bike is constantly accelerating ie actually never reaching terminal velocity. And as anyone knows built weight has a drastic effect on acceleration.
So on a track like Eastern Creek a bike that weighes 110kg and has 100hp will get down the straight faster than a bike that weighes 160kg and has 100hp.
Do you understand the fact the a race bike is constantly accelerating
 
#43 ·
Thanks Red

can anyone guess what would happen if I connected that 144v 700A controller up to the ME0913.
Im very tempted :eek:

We don't need to guess - you WOULD fry that motor.

Good luck with your project, but I think that you should research a little more and try to set some realistic goals. Come check out the forum at ELmoto.net - electric motorcycles is what we're all about.

Keith
 
#45 ·
This is a fun thread isn't it......

Ripperton,

Do you have the actual specs on that Mars motor? weight, voltage, continuous power, peak power, torque, efficiency? Is there a torque curve? Weight?



here's a little tip:
Try not to be so arrogant.....we're trying to help you avoid some of the obvious pitfalls that most noobs fall into. You're new here with little to no experience with EV's. We've built our vehicles, we've tested batteries, motors, controllers, BMS systems. What experience with these EV systems do you have? I'm having a difficult time trying to figure out your background (besides being a tinkerer and mechanic).



You have a few problems:
- That motor looks too small to put out enough HP(kW) to propel that bike much past 160kph. I see no specs on the motor. Doesn't look like it'l do the power you seem to think it will.

- At 10C discharge, the A123 cells fall to nearly 2.7V (http://www.zeva.com.au/tech/LiFePO4.php)

- For speeds over 100mph/160kph, you'll probably need at least 30hp continuous. Thats 22kw (at the very least. the agni bike had 2 motors going at least 40kw continuous combined). Ignoring losses for the sake of simplicity. Lets say you start at 120V, that'd be somewhere around 200A continuous. 200A continuous with a 6p pack, is ~33A each cell, which is ~15C, which would cause the voltage to drop to around 100V.. so its actually likely that you'd need more like 220A or 16C from each cell to get 22kw.

-10C on A123's would give you.... close to 6.5 minutes or runtime. 15C would give even less than that. (http://www.zeva.com.au/tech/LiFePO4.php)

- Again, without knowing specs its hard to tell, but do you know how many volts that motor is rated for? You can't just shove voltage at an AC (or DC) motor. The coils are rated for a certain voltage. You said he tested at 72V 400A.... it doesn't sound like its even MADE for 120V. Using a controller that has a higher rating than the motor is likely going to damage the motor.

- your weight seems to be in line with the stuff you're putting into it, but the performance will not be what you expect. You won't have the runtime you think you will, you won't have the HP you think you will and you won't have the top speed that you seem to think you'll reach.

- you haven't mentioned the RPM of that motor, or what gearing you'll be using. To get that top speed, you'll most likely require a transmission. Direct drive has RPM limitations related directly to the motor. at 174mph (280kph), thats 2.9miles/minute, 15312ft/minute and 2392 rear tire RPM (using the R1 170/50 r17 tires to calculate circumference).... so lets say the motor can theoretically hit 6krpm, its peak HP may only be at 4krpm, and you'll need peak HP to hit that top speed.... ignoring that, lets say 6000motor RPM = 2392 wheel RPM = 280kph.... thats a 2.5:1 gear ratio. That thing is going to suck for acceleration. Throw a 2-3 speed transmission in there, and you're still limited by HP.

- To push the power levels you want, you'll need to cool the batteries, your "kelly" controller will overheat if you don't cool that actively, and your motor will need forced air cooling.

- caps will only act as a buffer, not very well suited for EV Energy storage.
 
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