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  #21  
Old 01-22-2012, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

We did work today, but I slowed the agenda down quite a bit. I'm teaching a couple of the Team members metal fabrication as we build Schism, and I'd rather take extra time to make sure they learn, understand, and develop good skills and habits. We got the A-pillar bars mostly cut and fit, but will finish them Wednesday.



This is representative of the quality of work they're doing - as they're learning. When we first started the chassis, I stepped in on the really challenging areas; tonight, I watched in amazement as one of the Team members carved notches in the tubing like she had been doing it for years.

Last edited by toddshotrods; 01-24-2012 at 06:27 AM. Reason: typo
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  #22  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:01 PM
DavidDymaxion DavidDymaxion is offline
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

Nice tubing fit! Thanks for the answer on the pads (BTW it's 1/4 inch thick for Land Speed.).

Did the team member use a hole saw to notch the tubing, or was it a hand grind?

As a guy that cuts and welds metal but is definitely still learning I really enjoy reading your threads and learning. How are you making sure everything stays square and level? Is the rotisserie just for ease of access, or will you try to do the welds on the top sides that way? That I'm aware cars are generally built with the wheels down the whole time, is it a hot rod thing to spin the chassis with a rotisserie?
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  #23  
Old 01-23-2012, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidDymaxion View Post
Nice tubing fit! Thanks for the answer on the pads...
Thanks David, and np.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidDymaxion View Post
...Did the team member use a hole saw to notch the tubing, or was it a hand grind?...
The two that have been working on the roll cage wanted to learn metal fabrication, so I am helping them develop good hand-eye coordination, and tool skills, with good old-school hand grinding. The tools of choice are a 4-1/2" right angle grinder with cut-off, grinding, and sanding discs; a couple Sharpies, and a tubing notch contour gauge - I cheat and use that ;-). I mark what I want them to cut, give them some instructions, and let them go at it. Both are learning fast, and the young lady I mentioned previously has really awesome tool skills. She has worked with her hands and with tools before, she just never did this type of metal fabrication.

We did use a metal miter saw to cut the straight front and rear rails, and I plan to slowly introduce them to the more advanced tools and machinery around the shop, including a tubing notcher and (eventually) even using a manual mill and fixtures to cut super precise notches. When we really get into serious production, I think most of this stuff will be CAD/CNC.



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...How are you making sure everything stays square and level?...
The wooden fixture was carefully leveled, and is checked frequently. We're using plain old levels, squares, plumb bobs, tape measures and straight edges, to make sure it's going together square and level. That simple wooden fixture is the key. It positively located the foundation (the frame rails) and everything follows relatively easily. We notched the halo bar, clamped it in place, and checked it - perfectly level the first time. That's because we eyeballed it, measured up from the frame rails on each side, marked it, and fit the halo bar to those marks - it naturally followed the level frame. Ditto on the A-pillar bars. I measured what I wanted on one side, duplicated it on the second side and it's following the level frame perfectly.

Another thing, on this particular car, is the suspension pick-up points are going on after the chassis is welded up. I'm doing some things on this car that won't be on the production cars, and will have special fixtures that mount to the chassis and locate the suspension pick-up tabs and brackets. That means we'll have a second chance to correct any discrepancies - which I don't plan to have.


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Originally Posted by DavidDymaxion View Post
...Is the rotisserie just for ease of access, or will you try to do the welds on the top sides that way? That I'm aware cars are generally built with the wheels down the whole time, is it a hot rod thing to spin the chassis with a rotisserie?
Yes, the rotisserie is for ease of access. It's because tube frame and space frame chassis have so many angles and hard to reach areas. Even though a good welder can weld in nearly impossible situations, they'll be able to maintain the quality longer if the part moves more than they contort. On a serious race car, with tons of small triangulated areas, a rotisserie could be a must-have item.



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...As a guy that cuts and welds metal but is definitely still learning I really enjoy reading your threads and learning...
Thanks again, that's a nice compliment! I get as much, or more, out of knowing that I have helped someone else as I do from the work itself. Seeing my team members learn and grow, and receiving comments like yours, keeps me going when I'm a little burned out, and gives me the motivation to even begin sometimes.
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  #24  
Old 01-24-2012, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

That is such a nice set up and excellent work from your team.

Really makes me want to be able to do some work on mine. I had some thoughts but need to get them on paper somehow.
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  #25  
Old 01-24-2012, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

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That is such a nice set up and excellent work from your team.

Really makes me want to be able to do some work on mine. I had some thoughts but need to get them on paper somehow.
Thanks Woody! One step at a time buddy, you'll get back to it. I've been taking baby steps towards this point for the last three years myself. I sold my shop because it felt like a prison sentence, and slowly worked my way back up to having this one. The Inhaler Project's studio is much more than just a shop, and I am squarely in my element - providing design, knowledge, and experience to help others; with a better plan for profit to boot.

Maybe you can find an apprentice, who can help you organize and document your thoughts and processes. The young lady on my team has enough experience and common sense to question me when something I say doesn't make sense, yet she's learning a lot from me. As much as I love doing custom vehicles, the experience of helping them learn and grow is priceless.
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  #26  
Old 01-24-2012, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

Cheers Todd.
I have just returned from my referal interview to a local Arts On Prescription project. I am hoping that attending sessions there doing creative will help both unlocking the skills and raising the confidence.

They do fine art, ceramics, textiles, woodwork, gardening, photography (digital and old school), creative writing and some other things I think. No black smithing or air brush training though, I might find out if they can help with the air brush technique if I bought an air brush kit to use there.

Their wood shop is quite good and some of the furniture they have made is really very good. I was trying very hard not to 'assess it' for marking.
Quite stressful getting that urge and being in the company of a 'class'. I'm not sure I will do the wood work yet as I could feel the anxiety rising while I was there.
I think I will start with the art class to get my hand in.

They do 6 weeks sessions, one day a week, in each subject as desired and subject to availability, for 6 months. After that I may volunteer to work there, possibly in the woodshop if it has all been sucessful.

I am quite anxious but I am also looking forward to it.
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  #27  
Old 01-24-2012, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

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Cheers Todd.
I have just returned from my referal interview to a local Arts On Prescription project. I am hoping that attending sessions there doing creative will help both unlocking the skills and raising the confidence...

...I am quite anxious but I am also looking forward to it.
Sounds great Woody - you always have a good plan!
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  #28  
Old 01-25-2012, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

Todd,
Where your round tube meets the top face of the square tube do you have a spreader plate welded between the two?

I assume that the open ends of the square tube will be capped off but is there anything else to take loads to the underside of the square or are you just using the vertical sides of the square tube.

I am drawing/sketching frame rails at the moment and have been working on the basis of drilling a round hole right through the square tube and then passing the round through it and welding top and bottom (and teh sides if the tubes are the dime dimensions) with a welded disc to cap the bottom of the round tube. Over kill? Less strong? Unnecessary work?
Cheers.
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  #29  
Old 01-25-2012, 02:19 PM
MJ Monterey MJ Monterey is offline
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

After a financially induced break from EVs..... Subscribing.
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  #30  
Old 01-25-2012, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsmith View Post
Todd,
Where your round tube meets the top face of the square tube do you have a spreader plate welded between the two?

I assume that the open ends of the square tube will be capped off but is there anything else to take loads to the underside of the square or are you just using the vertical sides of the square tube.

I am drawing/sketching frame rails at the moment and have been working on the basis of drilling a round hole right through the square tube and then passing the round through it and welding top and bottom (and teh sides if the tubes are the dime dimensions) with a welded disc to cap the bottom of the round tube. Over kill? Less strong? Unnecessary work?
Cheers.
NHRA rules specify that the tubing be welded directly to the frame. Although I really like your idea, it would mean getting engineering approval for varying from the *ordained" path , so I am trying to stick as close to the rules, with Schism, as possible. Those cars have flipped and rolled, hit the walls, etc, and held together, so anything more is probably overkill - not that that's a bad thing (at least in my book)! The Inhaler is going to need engineering analyses, documentation, and approval to run on sanctioned race tracks because I'm doing so much stuff *my way*. I just wanted Schism to be sort of universally accepted.

On your method: I think I would not pass the round tubing through the lower wall of the square tubing. That way it wouldn't be totally dependent on weld strength (not that that's a bad thing) and would have to physically rupture the steel tubing to completely fail. With it welded on top, as per the sanctioning rules, the weld has to fail, and the tubing has to shear through two sections of steel tubing (.120" wall, in my case), to completely fail. To really be catastrophic, for the passengers, it would seem that at least two corners, if not all four, would have to fail utterly, for the cage to collapse on them.

Yup, I am going to cap the ends of the rectangular tubing, and will add a central rib that extends into the tubing to add a little extra suport to the roll cage bars. I'll probably plug weld that on the other sides of the tubes. Except for the weight penalty, a little piece of I-beam would be nice in there.



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After a financially induced break from EVs..... Subscribing.
Well, welcome back! Pull up a chair, or grab some goggles and gloves, and get dirty!
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