[dtbaker]

I am gathering parts I'll need for my next build which will use a Soliton Jr... and would like to confirm the differences between this and the typical old-school Curtis controller build...

Using Soliton:

- no need to buy main contactor, its internal
- use hall effect (voltage) throttle rather than old standby pb-6 potbox
- finned heat sink on bottom not too effective, better to use built-in fluid cooling by adding pump and external radiator if extended highway use or high-current is anticipated.

not sure about a few threads I read regarding issues damaging dc-dc convertors, which required the addition of 'toroid inductor' on the input side to protect the dc-dc. could someone please clarify/confirm whether this is something that needs to be considered?

[Tesseract]

Originally Posted by dtbaker

...
- no need to buy main contactor, its internal
- use hall effect (voltage) throttle rather than old standby pb-6 potbox
- finned heat sink on bottom not too effective, better to use built-in fluid cooling by adding pump and external radiator if extended highway use or high-current is anticipated....

The issue of the inductor is covered in a FAQ on our support page because hardly a week goes by without someone asking about that.

You can use a Hall effect throttle, or the original TPS or pedal sender, or a potentiometer type throttle (like ours) but do not use a PB-6. Not only is the pot inside wired up wrong, it's also crappy.

Adding a heatsink to the bottom of any of our controllers will do absolutely nothing besides deprive you of a convenient means of mounting the controller.

[dtbaker]

Originally Posted by Tesseract

The issue of the inductor is covered in a FAQ on our support page because hardly a week goes by without someone asking about that.

...ok, so just to pull the answer into this thread
'The popular NetGain WarP-9 has approximately 100uH of inductance even at 500A, hence there is quite a margin between it and the lower limit for our controllers.'
Seems to conclude that with a Warp 9, and probably with ADC motors, there is no need for an additional inductor. If I have that wrong, let me know!

Originally Posted by Tesseract

You can use a Hall effect throttle, or the original TPS or pedal sender, or a potentiometer type throttle (like ours) but do not use a PB-6. Not only is the pot inside wired up wrong, it's also crappy.

might be crappy, but there's a lot of them out there that have lasted for years.... I just wanted to clarify in that it is probably worth spending the extra $50 on a Hall Effect throttle to work best with a Soliton.

Originally Posted by Tesseract

Adding a heatsink to the bottom of any of our controllers will do absolutely nothing besides deprive you of a convenient means of mounting the controller.

a function of where the 'hot' components are, the fluid cooling channels and top fins w/ fans I assume. Additional consideration is that even though the bottom may not add a lot of convective cooling, even with a finned heatsink, it *probably* is still not a good idea to mount any controller directly above a motor where all the hot air rises... much better to channel some fresh air moving over the controller, and consider fluid cooling for demanding applications.

[Tesseract]

Originally Posted by dtbaker

...ok, so just to pull the answer into this thread
'The popular NetGain WarP-9 has approximately 100uH of inductance even at 500A, hence there is quite a margin between it and the lower limit for our controllers.'
Seems to conclude that with a Warp 9, and probably with ADC motors, there is no need for an additional inductor. If I have that wrong, let me know!

Err... Wrong FAQ. That entry concerns the minimum inductance the motor must have for the controller to work properly. The one you want talks specifically about inductors and dc/dc converters (Troubleshooting #4):

...A toroidal inductor is preferred, but a rod or drum type can be used, too, as long as it is at least 100uH and rated for between 1.5x and 2x the current required by the converter. Examples of suitable part numbers are Vishay/Dale IH10BQ101K, Bourns 2312-H-RC or 2312-V-RC, etc.

Originally Posted by dtbaker

[The PB-6] might be crappy, but there's a lot of them out there that have lasted for years.... I just wanted to clarify in that it is probably worth spending the extra $50 on a Hall Effect throttle to work best with a Soliton.

Well, if you already have a working PB-6 and want to try it out, then sure, who am I to dissuade you? You will need to either rewire the pot as a pot, rather than as a variable resistor, or add a pullup resistor from S5V to THROT on the controller.

Otherwise, we recommend using an automotive TPS - such as is used in our throttle assembly - as a throttle transducers, and not a Hall effect tranducer since they can be affected by stray magnetic fields unless they are properly shielded.

Originally Posted by dtbaker

... it *probably* is still not a good idea to mount any controller directly above a motor where all the hot air rises... much better to channel some fresh air moving over the controller, and consider fluid cooling for demanding applications.

My official position is that liquid cooling be used in all applications, but particularly when motor current is set to 50% of the maximum allowed or higher (ie - 300A on a Soliton Jr; 500A on a Soliton 1).

Otherwise, your suppositions that heat from the motor can affect the controller if they are mounted close to each other and that the liquid cooling ports are placed in the vicinity of the highest heat flux from the IGBT modules are both correct.

[dtbaker]

Originally Posted by Tesseract

(Troubleshooting #4):

...A toroidal inductor is preferred, but a rod or drum type can be used, too, as long as it is at least 100uH and rated for between 1.5x and 2x the current required by the converter. Examples of suitable part numbers are Vishay/Dale IH10BQ101K, Bourns 2312-H-RC or 2312-V-RC, etc.

I guess I mixed FAQs, but am now confused again as to whether I need to add an inductor, or not. If the Warp9 motor supplies about 100uH, is that enough in the system, or not? I don't feel qualified to understand the whys, I just want a simple yes or no as to whether I should add one and where to get it.


The second issue is that I have not seen these in the parts lists of my favorite evnetics dealers. seems like it would be a good thing for them to be sure to offer the complete 'kit' or add-ons recommended for Solitons: cooling system and throttles in addition to the controllers themselves.

[Tesseract]

Originally Posted by dtbaker

I guess I mixed FAQs, but am now confused again as to whether I need to add an inductor, or not. If the Warp9 motor supplies about 100uH, is that enough in the system, or not? I don't feel qualified to understand the whys, I just want a simple yes or no as to whether I should add one and where to get it.

Yes, you need the inductor for the dc/dc converter. And possibly for the charger, too. You can get a large inductor that handles both at the same time (charger output and dc/dc converter input, just to be extra clear) from Rebirth Auto. You can buy individual inductors from DigiKey, Mouser, etc... I provided part numbers in the previous post.

Once again, the motor inductance has no bearing on the need for an inductor feeding the dc/dc converter.

Originally Posted by dtbaker

The second issue is that I have not seen these in the parts lists of my favorite evnetics dealers. seems like it would be a good thing for them to be sure to offer the complete 'kit' or add-ons recommended for Solitons: cooling system and throttles in addition to the controllers themselves.

We do offer a throttle. As for the cooling system, I agree that our dealers ought to supply a kit. I'll keep trying to force them to do just that...

[major]

Originally Posted by dtbaker

I guess I mixed FAQs, but am now confused again as to whether I need to add an inductor, or not. If the Warp9 motor supplies about 100uH, is that enough in the system, or not? I don't feel qualified to understand the whys, I just want a simple yes or no as to whether I should add one and where to get it.

Hi dt,

The dc/dc is on a branch circuit from the battery and not in the main controller to motor circuit. So the motor inductance is not a factor. What you need is an inductor between the battery and dc/dc. That is what is recommended as I understand it.

major

[skooler]

Hi Dan,

I'm sure you have read the thread that I posted a month or so back?

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ad.php?t=75037

Using the Soliton Jr and the 400w Chennic DCDC with a 144v, 125AH lead acid pack I was blowing the fuse every time I accelerated past turtle speed.

My advice would be to just do it. It only costs a couple of $$$ and is easy to fit.

Mine is the size of a bottletop and is araldyted to the top of the DCDC. It connects to the positive input side of the DCDC and the traction battery.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Mike

[dtbaker]

Originally Posted by major

Hi dt,

The dc/dc is on a branch circuit from the battery and not in the main controller to motor circuit. So the motor inductance is not a factor. What you need is an inductor between the battery and dc/dc. That is what is recommended as I understand it.

major

I just wish it was more clear when I was ordering parts and the controller the first time thru.... 'do this' and make sure that retailers have it in the list of suggested externals for the Soliton. no main contactor required, inductor apparently highly recommended.

[Tesseract]

Originally Posted by dtbaker

I just wish it was more clear when I was ordering parts and the controller the first time thru.... 'do this' and make sure that retailers have it in the list of suggested externals for the Soliton. no main contactor required, inductor apparently highly recommended.

So... you are upset because whomever you bought your controller from didn't also make it clear that you might need an inductor to protect your dc/dc converter and/or charger? Should I specify an exact part number for an inductor in the Soliton owner's manual, since I can't *force* any retailer to carry any potentially useful accessories?