[shoup]

Has anyone used batteries made for UPS battery backup systems in EVs? I have been able to find a few people selling used UPS battery packs locally that may be a good option. Here is a link to the specs:

http://www.cdstandbypower.com/produc...df/12_1029.pdf
http://www.cdpowercom.com/product/ba...pdf/12_370.pdf

I was looking at the UPS12-300MR and UPS12-370MR in particular. The batteries are a few years old, but were maintained with a float charger over the life of the pack. Power was only drawn from the batteries occasionally when the power went out.

My car is a E30 BMW that I am going to be running at 156V. My motor is a Warp9 with a Logisystems 156V/1000A controller.

[TonyDigital]

Originally Posted by shoup

Has anyone used batteries made for UPS battery backup systems in EVs? I have been able to find a few people selling used UPS battery packs locally that may be a good option. Here is a link to the specs:

http://www.cdstandbypower.com/produc...df/12_1029.pdf
http://www.cdpowercom.com/product/ba...pdf/12_370.pdf

I was looking at the UPS12-300MR and UPS12-370MR in particular. The batteries are a few years old, but were maintained with a float charger over the life of the pack. Power was only drawn from the batteries occasionally when the power went out.

My car is a E30 BMW that I am going to be running at 156V. My motor is a Warp9 with a Logisystems 156V/1000A controller.

Hey,


I deal with UPS batteries all the time and I would highly discourage you from buying used batteries. They might have been maintained and they might have been treated well, but you're not going to get good performance out of them.

Firstly, I doubt the person is telling you the truth in regards to how the batteries were treated. Perhaps they forgot that the batteries have been deep discharged 732 times. Also, you don't know the kind of load and rate that they were discharged with. Buying used batteries is like buying an empty gas tank, you'll be running on fumes.

Secondly, batteries expire over time. Most good quality SLA batteries have a life time of 3-5 years. With different levels of use the life time fluctuates. More abuse, less life. Due to high lead prices of a year ago, manufacturers started manufacturing 1 year life span batteries. You definitely don't want to buy those new or used.

I would recommend looking hard for a great deal on new SLA batteries. Not only new but fresh, 3 months from manufacture. A lot of vendors carry a large stock of batteries which they can't sell fast, in turn, you end up buying a battery that's already a year old.


Tony

[Sunking]

I am a telecom power engineer I would also discourage you from using UPS or any other telecom type stationary batteries because they are designed for standby emergency service and not daily deep discharges. They basically only have 150 to 300 cycle life or 5 to 10 years whichever comes first.

[shoup]

Thank you both for your input. I will stay away from the UPS battery backup batteries and used batteries in general.

[TonyDigital]

Originally Posted by shoup

Thank you both for your input. I will stay away from the UPS battery backup batteries and used batteries in general.

No problem at all, I am glad you brought it up before going out and buying used batteries and getting ripped off. I know there are a lot of guys on the market who claim to be selling "good quality" or "lightly used" batteries or even "refurbished" batteries. Unfortunately all of those things are simply BS. I know of a few friends and colleagues who fell for it and basically threw their money away.


Good luck,
T

[300zxev]

I might be able to provide some actual data on this request when my controller arrives in about a month.

I WILL be using used recycled SLA batteries in my 300ZX conversion ... (at least initially) ... About 450kg of them.

Mine were 8Ah units that were annually replaced whether they reported a fault or not. I have charged and load tested them and found that 50% appear to be fully functional ...

I do realise the risks involved with these units becoming unbalanced and failing due to their different ages but to get a fully functional 156V 100Ah pack for $500 ... ... I couldn't go past it ...

To see my madness ... Check here ... 300zxev.blogspot.com

[TonyDigital]

Originally Posted by 300zxev

I might be able to provide some actual data on this request when my controller arrives in about a month.

I WILL be using used recycled SLA batteries in my 300ZX conversion ... (at least initially) ... About 450kg of them.

Mine were 8Ah units that were annually replaced whether they reported a fault or not. I have charged and load tested them and found that 50% appear to be fully functional ...

I do realise the risks involved with these units becoming unbalanced and failing due to their different ages but to get a fully functional 156V 100Ah pack for $500 ... ... I couldn't go past it ...

To see my madness ... Check here ... 300zxev.blogspot.com

If the batteries are one year old and you pick out the ones that can sustain a load, you might be able to get away with it for a bit. Again, it's hard to say because you don't know exactly what kind of abuse they took. If they're a good quality battery, a year shouldn't be the end of the world for them. They could have some life left in them still.

How many batteries are you going to use? Are you going to use 200pcs? Are you testing each one? How are you load testing them? If you don't mind sharing, I would love to hear the process.




T

[300zxev]

Since I secured the batteries for free ... (the $500 is what it cost to build them into crates) ... I'm not looking to get any more than a year out of them ... ... I'll have the odd spare too if i'm noticing individual packs dropping more than others.

156 good units was what I was after ... 13 crates of 12 batteries.

I'm no expert when it comes to testing these batteries ...

But I have a SLA charger which i've used on each one and if they complete the charging sequence to 14.4V without exhibiting much rise in temperature, I regarded them as charged.

Then I hooked up a 2 amp load to each unit to monitor the voltage drop ... if the voltage didn't drop by much , I deemed them good.

Then I checked them later with a Voltmeter ... I think I only kept the ones that stayed at or above 13V with no load.

Charging, load testing and voltage testing at the end were all done with about a 8 Hour resting break in between ... ...
It was an all amateur production line in my office for a couple of months.

[TonyDigital]

Originally Posted by 300zxev

Since I secured the batteries for free ... (the $500 is what it cost to build them into crates) ... I'm not looking to get any more than a year out of them ... ... I'll have the odd spare too if i'm noticing individual packs dropping more than others.

156 good units was what I was after ... 13 crates of 12 batteries.

I'm no expert when it comes to testing these batteries ...

But I have a SLA charger which i've used on each one and if they complete the charging sequence to 14.4V without exhibiting much rise in temperature, I regarded them as charged.

Then I hooked up a 2 amp load to each unit to monitor the voltage drop ... if the voltage didn't drop by much , I deemed them good.

Then I checked them later with a Voltmeter ... I think I only kept the ones that stayed at or above 13V with no load.

Charging, load testing and voltage testing at the end were all done with about a 8 Hour resting break in between ... ...
It was an all amateur production line in my office for a couple of months.

That is a lot of work! I have to say I agree with you on the testing methods. Anything that wouldn't stay at 13V I would toss out as well. If they hold charge, hopefully they will be able to perform for quite some time. As long as you don't deep discharge them too much they should work well. The SLA's don't like to be deep discharged too much, kills the life time.


T

[DIYguy]

Don't be so quick to condemn this option. I know someone who is running them and I also bought some. I haven't run them yet, but will. The cost was low and the application they were in was a 30 second discharge twice yearly. They do have a calendar life but it is rated at 10 years. They only cost me $50 each. The other chap using them had one die, and the supplier replaced it no charge. They were all load tested prior to purchase. they are 135 or 140 Ah VRLA. Like most things, it depends on the details of use. Service temperature is a very important issue in determining the life left in these bats. If they were maintained properly in an environmentally controlled space, it does make a significant difference on the calendar life expectation. They don't like high temp storage/service. AGM's do have a number of benefits over floodies although energy density is not one of them. Better low temp performance, better peukerts effect and durability are a few benefits. The low resistance also means better performance ...as in ability to dump high amounts of current quickly.

I don't expect them to last 3 years... but for what I paid... I like it.