[JRP3]

Originally Posted by WheelMotor

I read a very interesting relevant article about Torque in cars on ElectricVehicleNews.Com In the article they speak about this article about the Audi e-tron.

I hope you read this part:

This, of course, is exactly why Mercedes and Audi have added reduction gearboxes to the in-board wheel motors in their AWD EV Sports cars. It also has alot to do with why Audi thought they could get away with a bit of BS of there own when they inflated a total of 682 Nm (501.5 ft/lb) across all four motor shafts into 4500 Nm (3319 ft/lb) at the press release. Audi ignored accepted auto industry standards and quoted torque for the e-tron at the wheels, which is after the torque multiplication of the reduction gearboxes.

Audi quoted torque after gearing multiplication, and they are not actually using wheel motors.

[CrazyAl]

Like the idea of a hub motor as it frees up a lot of space, but out of interest, how is the proposed hub motor getting cooled?

[major]

Originally Posted by JRP3

I've never said WM should give up,

I'll say it Mr. WheelMotor's objective will not be achieved here.

Originally Posted by WheelMotor

And these two charts are contradictory.

Originally Posted by WheelMotor

Major,

you are a pessimist . Within a few months I will be back here with a video of a prototype installed in a car. Than we speak again !

Still waiting, going on 4 years

major (the pessimist)

[WheelMotor]

O o o ... My good old friends Major and JRP3 ....



We say in Belgium: "Who does nothing, does nothing wrong"

[JRP3]

We are both younger than that, and have more hair

[WheelMotor]

When I said in 2008 that I could make this WM for 1500$ I forgot to look in my crystal boll, otherwise I had invested all my money in Neodyum. In which case I had multiplied my wealth with 10 !!!!!
While we are asking quotes for the more than 50 magnets we need in 1 motor, I am smashed with prices close to 1000$ only for the magnets !!! While in 2008 I got prices of a few 100 $... pffff

From this website: http://www.magnet-shop.net/Aktuelle-...ung:_:340.html

Other countries used to mine these raw materials. Only approx. 1/3 of the worldwide deposit is in China. But years ago, China flooded the world market with unbeatably cheap rare earth metals and magnets, which made it economically unviable for most mines and magnet producers outside of China to stay in the business. As a consequence, the whole world relied on supplies from China.
As the prices started to explode in 2011 and the fatal dependence was recognized, some of those mines started producing again. However, the know-how for the elaborate and complicated beneficiation of raw materials has been lost. Also, since a mine can't start operations from one day to the other, observers don't see realistic alternatives to Chinese companies before the end of 2012. Also, the demand for neodymium magnets continues to increase worldwide. From this website: http://www.supermagnete.be/eng/faq/price

[CrazyAl]

Originally Posted by WheelMotor

When I said in 2008 that I could make this WM for 1500$ I forgot to look in my crystal boll, otherwise I had invested all my money in Neodyum. In which case I had multiplied my wealth with 10 !!!!!
While we are asking quotes for the more than 50 magnets we need in 1 motor, I am smashed with prices close to 1000$ only for the magnets !!! While in 2008 I got prices of a few 100 $... pffff

From this website: http://www.magnet-shop.net/Aktuelle-...ung:_:340.html

Interessant. Dysprosium ist mehr teuer. Und was ist die preis in die Zukunft?

Interesting. Dysprosium is much more expensive. What's the price in the future?

[david85]

China imposed some export restrictions on "rare earth" products recently. I'm guessing that has something to do with it.

Whats silly is most of those materials are available in quantity in the western hemesphere, but for political and economic reasons, they were not being mined. If prices stay high that could change but not anytime soon.

......though I realize that doesn't really help your situation

[WheelMotor]

Beside the magnet price ... the JMAG software happens to be very ... let me balance my words ... challenging.
I am trying to design the motor in function of the available and affordable magnets. The software is in an early stage and rather rudimentary. I am not saying that the soft is no good, but the results have to be interpreted and understood, before any jumps of joy are performed ... Still I am thanking JMAG to grant us this free trial. From the simulation results, we can conclude that the amps at starting have to be kept in limits by the controller. We already know that in a BLDC motor the controller is ... as important as the motor, but from this max Amps point of view at start, the controller has to be moooooore sophisticated.

[lkcl]

Originally Posted by WheelMotor

When I said in 2008 that I could make this WM for 1500$ I forgot to look in my crystal boll, otherwise I had invested all my money in Neodyum. In which case I had multiplied my wealth with 10 !!!!!
While we are asking quotes for the more than 50 magnets we need in 1 motor, I am smashed with prices close to 1000$ only for the magnets !!!

dear WheelMotor,

*sigh* i could have said "i told you so" but that would also have needed me to have a crystal ball. i did however suspect that something like this would happen, but actually hearing from someone who has direct first-hand experience, it is quite an eye-opener.

so i have instead been designing vehicles that require only about 6-8kW sustained and about 12-15kW peak... and *not* in-wheel. would you be interested to see if you can build an LRK Torque-Max "outrunner" with that kind of rated and max performance? the LRK Torque-Max design is what PML FlightLink copied (they still make them custom, to order, to military and aerospace specs).

the efficiency and power of the LRK Torque-Max design is so significantly higher than that of a standard motor that when PML Flightlink initially came out with their datasheets before they had even made the motors, they didn't believe the numbers and quoted "85%" efficiency in the calculations. after actually testing them they had to hurriedly revise those numbers upwards by a big margin: the 7kW hub motor became an 11kW etc.

so there are advantages to doing "outrunners" but those advantages are *not* because they're suitable for use as in-wheel motors, they're because the efficiency and torque characteristics are better.