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Woody's Tractor Project

351K views 879 replies 45 participants last post by  Maker_of_Things 
#1 ·
Right, having started one project with the MR2 I have decided to start a second project as a learning platform.

I figured I'd take a leaf from Jimdear's book and build a sort of tractor type thing. With no need to be road legal I can do pretty much as I please.

So far I have collected together the following:
Lada Niva transfer box

6 1/2" golf buggy motor

Some 1/2" chain, 38 tooth sprocket and 12 tooth sprocket
Curtis 1214 36-48v controller
Land Rover discovery front axle
10m 35mm welding cable.

The motor didn't have a drive end cap so I made a wooden one (thanks for the nudge on that one Simon).

It also had a female shaft which seems to be a 3/4" 10 spline SAE keyspline. I couldn't find one of them so I made one.
I turned the major and minor diameters and swept the shaft back to full size to reduce stress risers from forming.

I then scribed the dimensions of the splines using the 60 tooth gear on the lathe as an index.

I then used a cutting disc in an angle grinder to cut the splines gaps.

And with a bit of fettling it fitted.

When I know what is happening on the other end of the shaft I will then heat treat it and it might then last a little while for playing.

The plan was to use the transfer box sideways as a transaxle with the locking diff in it. However, there is very little clearance around the input flange for a large sprocket to be fitted to bring the ratio down.
So I bought a Land Rover axle. Being a front axle is no problem as I can narrow it using short half shafts both sides and lock the track rod. If I find a rear axle then I can use the transfer box and make it a 4x4 with narrow axles.
I will keep it 48v to suit both the motor and the controller and use up some of the steel scrap I have floating about to make the chassis and miscellaneous parts.
 
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#35 ·
This is what I would have prefered to be working on, the AEC Matador timber tractor I used to have (note the big red estate car parked behind it for scale):


Another previous project I may have posted pics of before:


And the three speed transfer box I built for it:

The transfer box, when complete, probably weighed as much as one of your tractors, Jim!:D

The bench is only clean and clear because it has only been there for a few weeks.;)

All this playing is also procrastinating as I am supposed to be writing lesson plans for a history class and waiting for a few more pay cheques before I can get a motor for the MR2.
I am even tempted to use the golf buggy motor and 48v controller on the MR2 just to get it road legal if I haven't got a proper motor for it in the meantime.
 
#36 ·
I've started to clean the 2CV box and have removed the brake calipers, discs and driveshafts.


The calipers are an odd design. The fixing bolts also hold the two sides of the caliper together. So once it is removed it falls apart pushed open by the handbrake/parking brake caliper spring.


Interesting that the drive flange has a locating ring on it but it only locates and centralises the disc. The drive shaft CV joint is only located and centralised by the bolts alone. I guess they had better be a snug fit.:D
 
#37 · (Edited)
I seem to be collecting a lot of cheap mechanical bits.

The latest find is this:


It is the back end of a Ransomes vergecutter and it gives me a two speed transaxle with wheels and hubs and a mount for the motor. The front end has four bolts that will allow a simple front end to be bolted on to take steering and batteries. The ratios are approximately 8.5:1 and 16:1 plus around 3:1 to 4:1 on the pulley.

Now I stop looking and start building, all the other bits will be back on Ebay so I can get some batteries.

The motor will be interchangable from this project to the MR2 to get the MR2 road legal.
 
#38 · (Edited)
I seem to be collecting a lot of cheap mechanical bits.

The latest find is this:


It is the back end of a Ransomes vergecutter and it gives me a two speed transaxle with wheels and hubs and a mount for the motor. The front end has four bolts that will allow a simple front end to be bolted on to take steering and batteries. The ratios are approximately 8.5:1 and 16:1 plus around 3:1 to 4:1 on the pulley.

Now I stop looking and start building, all the other bits will be back on Ebay so I can get some batteries.

The motor will be interchangable from this project to the MR2 to get the MR2 road legal.

Woody,

I see you are now on the right track to build a proper tractor thingy.

I can't wait to see what you come up with. Are you going to build your own front end or will you get a generic lawn tractor from the scrap yard? If you go the scrap yard route watch out for some of the really crappy steering systems. All plastic bushings and stamped gears they are usually worn out about a week before you buy it new. Try to find a tractor with a cast Iron front axle, most likely the rest of the steering will be of better quality.

If you build your own give me a shout. I know the angles necessary to get a proper steering for a narrow front end.

If you can find a Ross steering box that would be great. They were used over here on a lot of the high end garden tractors. Do a search on US eBay you will see a lot of them from used to rebuilt $20.00 to $120.00. Once you know what you are looking for maybe you can find one or something similar. You can bring back a total trash Ross gearbox to better then 80% with about 20.00 in bearings, a litle grease And some effort. access to a lathe makes it better.

That rear end looks STRONG and those equipment mounting points look like they would suppoet a lot more the those tires would.

Are we goin to see a piece of art wooden body once you get it moving?

Now I have two things I can't wait for, your tractor thingy and now the 13 inch motor for the new pulling tractor is getting closer to complete. A buddy with a nice shop is letting my partner in this project and me use equipment when it's free. I have the movable brush rigging almost done, we will have the keyway in place by Thursday (man that shaft is hard) The end bells have been machined down and cleaned up for Powder Kote. We will clean up the barrel through the week. The end bells will be chrome silver and the barrel will be electric blue metal flake with yellow lightning bolts.

I hope you plan on replacing that wood motor end plate since this will be a side winder. Though it might be OK with a properly supported shaft.

Sorry to run on so but I am just happy to see the tractor thingy going forward.

I'll be watching
Jim
 
#39 ·
Cheers Jim.
It only cost me ÂŁ10 at the scrap metal yard!

I'll look forward to the 13" photos on your thread and some more pulling video.

I have ordered a 22mm thick aluminium plate from Ebay to make a new end cap for the motor.
I figured that if I kept the outside of the plate square then it would give me 4 lugs for bolting down to the adaptor plate on the MR2. It would be bigger then my lathe would chuck but I realised that if I removed the chuck and bolted the plate to the chuck drive plate then I could use the gap in the bed to get 10" diameter swing.

I will be using the short splined shaft I made earlier to take a pulley and I think that if I mounded it between two bearings then there will be no radial load on the motor. It would also allow the motor to be slipped off the shaft to use on the MR2 until it gets its own motor.

I was going to make the front end as, having found a lawn tractor grave yard, the ones available were costly and looked more suited to a child's pedal cart. Any advice would be great as I was going to just make an 'agricutural' center pivot beam axle with simple (and approximate) akerman steering. It will only have a speed of 0.7 and 1.3 mph per 1000rpm in each gear if I use a 4:1 pulley drive.

This week I will be busy as I have to prepare a couple of pieces of my furniture work to be used for a HRH visit to work. I will have a Royal bottom on my chair, signing papers on my table. If it works out it will be a great publicity photo for my website.:)
 
#40 · (Edited)
Cheers Jim.
It only cost me ÂŁ10 at the scrap metal yard!

I'll look forward to the 13" photos on your thread and some more pulling video.

I have ordered a 22mm thick aluminium plate from Ebay to make a new end cap for the motor.
I figured that if I kept the outside of the plate square then it would give me 4 lugs for bolting down to the adaptor plate on the MR2. It would be bigger then my lathe would chuck but I realised that if I removed the chuck and bolted the plate to the chuck drive plate then I could use the gap in the bed to get 10" diameter swing.

I will be using the short splined shaft I made earlier to take a pulley and I think that if I mounded it between two bearings then there will be no radial load on the motor. It would also allow the motor to be slipped off the shaft to use on the MR2 until it gets its own motor.

I was going to make the front end as, having found a lawn tractor grave yard, the ones available were costly and looked more suited to a child's pedal cart. Any advice would be great as I was going to just make an 'agricutural' center pivot beam axle with simple (and approximate) akerman steering. It will only have a speed of 0.7 and 1.3 mph per 1000rpm in each gear if I use a 4:1 pulley drive.

This week I will be busy as I have to prepare a couple of pieces of my furniture work to be used for a HRH visit to work. I will have a Royal bottom on my chair, signing papers on my table. If it works out it will be a great publicity photo for my website.:)
Woody,

Great news about HRH. Post a picture on this site if you can.

Sound like you have the motor set up well in hand. what you describe for drive shafting should do the job. Think about an overdrive jackshaft set up to maybe try to get the top speed up around 5mph. Over all it would be more usable. Belt drive should be fine.

Couple of questions about the Tractor Thingy (called TT in the future).
General questions:



Does the TT
  • Have a real differential?
  • Have any kind of brakes?
  • Have a reverse?
Questions related to the potential front end:
  • What size will the OD of the final rear wheels and tires be?
  • What will the center to center width of the final rear tires be?
  • What diameter front wheels?
  • What is the planned width (center to center of the tires)?
Suggestions:
See if the lawn tractor yard might not have a couple of usable spindles or even a completefront axle with wheel and tires. The spindles alone will save you half of the figuring and work because the ackerman steering offset and KPI is already built into the units.

If you are going totally from scratch a good general spec. for the ackerman steering offset is 15 degrees per side and a good general KPI is also 15 degreese. For the standard garden tractor front wheel that will put the SAI contact close to the center of the tire with a 2 degree +- camber.

From there, once you know front and rear tire diameters it is easy to set up caster, trail, camber and SAI.

I know you might be saying, is this needed on something only going am couple of miles an hour? But I bet that in the end it will go faster, plus it will be heavy with the batteries so you might as well make steering as acurate and easy as possible.

A thought:
Check on what if any costs iof any are involved import wise if I were to send you a pair of spindles as a gift. They would probably be classed as used auto parts or some such. I have three or four pair sitting around that I will never use. I don't think the shipping would be too bad. I'll weigh them and see.

As far as the Big 13, I guess I better start a build thread. I'll take my camera over with me next week and snap a few of the motor worl we are doing at the shop.

TT forever,
Jim

EDIT.

Sorry; Didn't read/understand that you have the MPH in hand with a 4 to 1 drive. Ignore the jack shaft suggestion.

End EDIT
 
#43 · (Edited)
All sounds good so far.
In between waxing my table I have been in the workshop stripping and cleaning the axle.


The hubs have one set of four clearance holes that will take M6 bolts and three threaded holes that take some UNC bolts. They are very hefty.


The motor is a little wide to line up easily.
I will have to move the big driven pulley outwards somehow so that the motor is more central.


I have put the axle on stands to get an idea of layout and proportions.



As it stands the wheel base is around 44" and flexible. The axle stands are a little high giving a 25" effective wheel diameter off the bench but it is close enough to do for now.
I was thinking of using these batteries and the layout would allow four of them to sit in a 2x2 long thin layout from the axle case to the front end. Each battery is 510mm long x 240mm high x 110mm wide so I would have a pack size of 1020mm x 240mm x 220mm weighing in at 148kg.
I will need to establish the batteries are suitable before I can build the front end to accommodate them.

I would use smaller batteries but they cost a bit more and I was thinking that these would also give the MR2 enough 'get up and go' to get it legal, I hope.
 
#44 ·
Woody,

I like it. Rear motor makes sense.

Suggestions;

Best put all your battery weight up front. You will be shocked at how easy that front end is going to come up. As far as power, those Gel cells should work OK, but I heard the gells dont take high draw, deep cycleing well. Probably not a problem with the tractor (I get a half hour running at almost full throttle out of 4 very used 45 ah AGM batteries) but might be with the car if you need to go any distance. Another thing with gells, don't forget that the can be mounted at any angle.

A thought on motor alignment. Maybe a jackshaft or a 1 to 1 right angle drive?

The front spindles I'll be sending you are 3/4 inch. They are made from bent 3/4 inch round stock, machined and then the steering arms are positioned and welded. I would love to send you what is in the eBay pictures except that axles of eithe one are cast iron and weigh about 20 plus pounds.

Cub Cadet axle
http://cgi.ebay.com/1967-Cub-Cadet-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5885cc97ab

John Deer Garden tractor axle
http://cgi.ebay.com/1974-John-Deere...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5885ad1a9c

The drag link arm are what the bottom bushing of the axle rests on. Very simple stuff.

The wheels will be retained by either a snap ring or a flat washer and bolt or cotter pin. I don't remember what type I have here. I'll send you a picture as soon as I can get out to the shed. We are goin through some global warming here :D. 20 degrees F (-17 C). The warmest its been all week.

Jim
 
#45 ·
That's great, I can make an axle from some 70mm x 50mm x 3mm box section.

I will have a look for other battery options but I am doubling or trippling the cost with conventional deep cycle ones that are also big enough for the car. I am only expecting the car to move enough to be tested and made legal.

I was thinking of a right angle drive for the motor while I was working on it. I will need to see what I can find. There was a pile of worm and wheel gearboxes at the scrap yard but I ignored them last week as there was too much mangled machinery around them. Probably too much reduction anyway.:D

I started on the frame for the TT.

I had some 40mm x 5mm angle from the scrap metal yard so I used that to for the bottom part of the frame. It is a bit small but it will do as a start and I will make a top frame over the batteries and then brace the whole thing into a girder bridge. If I can find some 50 or 60mm angle that would be better.
I need the TT to be CKD so that I can get it back off the bench and out of the basement so the four bolt attachment to the axle is really good.
I also need to get some extraction fitted as welding indoors isn't nice.:eek:
 
#46 ·
That's great, I can make an axle from some 70mm x 50mm x 3mm box section.

I will have a look for other battery options but I am doubling or trippling the cost with conventional deep cycle ones that are also big enough for the car. I am only expecting the car to move enough to be tested and made legal.

I was thinking of a right angle drive for the motor while I was working on it. I will need to see what I can find. There was a pile of worm and wheel gearboxes at the scrap yard but I ignored them last week as there was too much mangled machinery around them. Probably too much reduction anyway.:D

I started on the frame for the TT.

I had some 40mm x 5mm angle from the scrap metal yard so I used that to for the bottom part of the frame. It is a bit small but it will do as a start and I will make a top frame over the batteries and then brace the whole thing into a girder bridge. If I can find some 50 or 60mm angle that would be better.
I need the TT to be CKD so that I can get it back off the bench and out of the basement so the four bolt attachment to the axle is really good.
I also need to get some extraction fitted as welding indoors isn't nice.:eek:

Woody,

WOW, you don't fool around once you start something.

A thought on the pully. It looks like it is keyed and pinned to the shaft. could you drive out the pin and turn the pully around so the snout is towards the gearbox then redrill and repin it. That looks like it would give you another inch.

Looking at the rear hubs with the three bolts. I remember seeing some French vehicles that used a three bolt pattern. Any chance they are the same?

On the front wheels make some spoked hubs and bolt them into the 4 bolt holes. Get some tubing that will comtain 3/4 inch ID bearings or bushings and make spokes from flat stock, Weld them to the hub on an angle then bolt or weld them to the wheel. Made a rear wheel for a Motorcycle Ice Racer with side car like that once. Used an old steel hub from a something motorcycle (can't remember) and a 15 inch car rim we had cut the center out of. We had the widest tire out there. This was back in the days when a 4 inch Harley rim and tire was the widest thing out there.

Don't say welding indoors around me. Just saying the words make my lungs clench up.

You keep going like this and you will finish in time to plow the last snow this year.

Jim
 
#47 ·
Yes the pulley is keyed and I am soaking it in WD40 to get the set screw out. Reversed it will give about an inch but I would like 3". I may make up a shaft extension for it and just move it out where it fits best.

I need to get to a scrap yard and measure some wheels to see if there is anything that will fit. I would like to be able to find some 16" wheels off a Ford Transit twin wheel. The off set would save making up spacers to increase the track width and I would be able to use the tyres I have or use dumper tyres later though that would increase diameter.
At the moment it is whatever comes first.

The front wheels will probably just be a steel tube welded through a steel disc and bored to take bearings and then turned true to fit the wheels.
Again, the scrap yard had some 8" and 10" discs cuts from 10mm plate, dozens of them, and I didn't get any. I will see if there are any left tomorrow.

There was some snow this morning but only a dusting. I am hoping that there won't be any more. The cold makes my hands hurt too much to work metal.
 
#48 ·
About adding a shaft to move your pulley 3" further than your differential, I'll bring my 2 cents here.

I've recently made a Formula SAE car with a snowmobile engine developping around 55hp. Using the stock CVT, it have been quite interesting in means of power, slipping 22" OD slicks of 7" wide. The problem is that on the secondary pulley of the CVT, there was 3" of room between the pulley and the first bearing. This brought flex in the secondary shaft as a bending moment was applied to it (lever effect). This brought the pulleys nearer and made then unaligned. In the end, it even torn our frame! Why I'm telling you here is that you'll what to add a support bearing the nearest possible to your pulleys to cancel this moment and keep the center-to-center of the pulleys exact.

By the way, moment here is used a "flexion torque" of the pulley shaft. Not really sure how to say it.

Keep up the news, it's going really fast and is evenly interesting!

Dalardan
 
#49 ·
Hi Dalarden,
Yes I will be adding an extra bearing if I extend the pulley shaft. Where I can I would prefer to have shafts in shear between two bearings instead of in bending, especially if the shaft is long. I will need to see what the scrapyard angel has to offer in alternatives first.

So today I popped into a car breakers to find a couple of steel rims to use for the back of the TT. The intention was to get 16"x6" ish as I have a couple of old tyres from my car that would do as good slicks to start with. Also using 16" rims would allow me to use Land Rover off road tyres or dumper truck tyres. The chap pointed me to a skip full of old rims and told me to find what I wanted from the scrap. I found a couple of 16" x 6.5" steel wheel rims that felt a bit light but had a lot of offset to widen the track a bit. ÂŁ5 the pair so I had them and left. They were aluminium with electronic pressure sensors on the valves. Not sure what car they were from but they will do.

So this is where we are at now with the tyres on the rims:



I will make some spacers to make them fit and then use then inside out.

I also went to my friendly scrap metal yard and came out with something that I don't know if it will be a bargain or a waste of money. However, more on that in my MR2 thread as it is more relevent there.;)
 
#50 ·
Hi Dalarden,
So today I popped into a car breakers to find a couple of steel rims to use for the back of the TT. The intention was to get 16"x6" ish as I have a couple of old tyres from my car that would do as good slicks to start with. Also using 16" rims would allow me to use Land Rover off road tyres or dumper truck tyres. The chap pointed me to a skip full of old rims and told me to find what I wanted from the scrap. I found a couple of 16" x 6.5" steel wheel rims that felt a bit light but had a lot of offset to widen the track a bit. ÂŁ5 the pair so I had them and left. They were aluminium with electronic pressure sensors on the valves. Not sure what car they were from but they will do.

I will make some spacers to make them fit and then use then inside out.

I also went to my friendly scrap metal yard and came out with something that I don't know if it will be a bargain or a waste of money. However, more on that in my MR2 thread as it is more relevent there.;)
Woody,

Nice find on the wheels. The wire looks promising as well.

I beleive I'll have those spindles on their way to you maybe this Wednesday. You will have to handle anything at your end to get them out of hock. Their value will be about $20.00 USD.

They are made from 3/4 inch bar stock that has been bent, machined and had the steering arms positioned and welded to so you can look for wheel bearings and tubing that will work with that for your hubs. Most tractors using the cast iron axles just bored the axle and ran the spindles in the cast iron with grease (should be obvious in the eBay pages I sent).

If you make an axle up out of box section tube and round tube you can run them in the tube OK as long as you grease the heck out of them (that's how I did my double engine tractor). I also ground grease reliefs into the spindle to make sure the grease got distributed
 
#51 ·
Thank you Jim, I will let you know when they arrive.

I am up late trying to work out a spacer/adapter design to fit the wheels.
The wheels have 5 studs at 108mm pcd and a 60mm bore. I have found out that they are Renault: Espace, 21 turbo, Val Satis wheels, interesting but not helpful.
The transaxle hubs have 3 studs at 118mm, or more likely 4 5/8" pcd.

I'd like to get about 2 1/2" to 3" spacer, probably a disc on each end of some 3" pipe, turned and drilled to fit the studs. I will need to have a 60mm spigot for the wheels though and a flange to locate to the axle hub.
It is made awkward for fitting the wheels back to front as the outside doesn't have an easy flat face for mounting.
 
#52 ·
Thank you Jim, I will let you know when they arrive.

I am up late trying to work out a spacer/adapter design to fit the wheels.
The wheels have 5 studs at 108mm pcd and a 60mm bore. I have found out that they are Renault: Espace, 21 turbo, Val Satis wheels, interesting but not helpful.
The transaxle hubs have 3 studs at 118mm, or more likely 4 5/8" pcd.

I'd like to get about 2 1/2" to 3" spacer, probably a disc on each end of some 3" pipe, turned and drilled to fit the studs. I will need to have a 60mm spigot for the wheels though and a flange to locate to the axle hub.
It is made awkward for fitting the wheels back to front as the outside doesn't have an easy flat face for mounting.
Woody,

Yep "sure" it's a pain to figure out stuff like that . . . NOT:D. Those kinds of things are what we do this for.;) Thats braging rights.

Here is a possible way to mount the wheels.

Bring the 5 bolts through the adapter plate. Then install 5 lug nuts backwards (taper out) install the wheel using standard nuts and washers properly tightened against the backiside of the wheel. This will center the wheel on the cones of the reversed lug nuts. You wont need the centering spigot although mounting would be easir=er if it were there. Since I'm not there looking at it, I'm sure there are refinements.

Looking good.

Jim
 
#55 · (Edited)
Pay it forwards is good and healthy, I like that. There was a film about that wasn't there?

Here it is: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0223897/



I got the big pulley off this afternoon and had a play with bits I had that might fit the shaft. I came up with this for race gearing!:D Funny how the little sprocket was a perfect fit including keyway!


I also found a triple pulley block that fitted the shaft so I just need to open the keyway a bit to use it. I figured that I could machine it and use it to mount the bigger chain sprocket and then fit the small one on the motor shaft and then house the whole thing in a chain case that allows for bearings both sides of the sprockets and for tensioning and safety.
The input drive shaft can then stay in place while the motor is pulled for the car.
The tooth count is 12 and 42 so there will be a good reduction to allow for higher motor speeds.

Image seems to be upside down, not sure what Photobucket is playing at.
 
#56 ·
Pay it forwards is good and healthy, I like that. There was a film about that wasn't there?

Here it is: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0223897/
I'll have to see if I can find it and watch it. Amazon for $2.00 used I'll order it.

I believe I first heard this back in the late 60s early 70s. Robert A Heinlein (Sorry about misspelling the first time around) was a Science Fiction writer of some note. He used the quote in one of his stories. It appears he did not originate it though. I checked the quotes directly attributed to him

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/robert_a_heinlein.html

If you've got some time read through them. I think you'll find the interesting.

I try to base a lot of my actions around these ideas and those of Ayn Rand.

I got the big pulley off this afternoon and had a play with bits I had that might fit the shaft. I came up with this for race gearing!:D Funny how the little sprocket was a perfect fit including keyway!


I also found a triple pulley block that fitted the shaft so I just need to open the keyway a bit to use it. I figured that I could machine it and use it to mount the bigger chain sprocket and then fit the small one on the motor shaft and then house the whole thing in a chain case that allows for bearings both sides of the sprockets and for tensioning and safety.
The input drive shaft can then stay in place while the motor is pulled for the car.
The tooth count is 12 and 42 so there will be a good reduction to allow for higher motor speeds.

Image seems to be upside down, not sure what Photobucket is playing at.
Looks like you have things in hand. A idea if you use the triple pully and if your trans has a neutral you might consider a power take off i.e. another pully and shaft with a slip belt clutch.

Jim
 
#60 ·
Thanks Jim.

I think I am going to get a box of M12x45 cap screws and then eiher turn a cone onto some nuts or get some Ford wheel nuts on Ebay. They seem to be selling in packs of 4 and I need 10! :rolleyes:

While I am getting the bolts I will probably sort out an order for other misc high tensile nuts and bolts. Buying them in small quantities from the local DIY shed is pointless as they are made of cheese there.

I am going to have to try and make the hub adaptors into some kind of simple disc brake with a parking brake lock if I am to use the driven pulley as a PTO.

I decided to take a load of scrap to the scrap metal yard today, I was cleaning my car out to take my furniture to college tomorrow and 'got carried away' in the tidy up. Came back with ÂŁ76. Not bad for the bits of dead engine and some old push bikes and some of the lead from my roof repairs. That's half the cost of the cable covered. :D
 
#61 ·
Thanks Jim.

I think I am going to get a box of M12x45 cap screws and then eiher turn a cone onto some nuts or get some Ford wheel nuts on Ebay. They seem to be selling in packs of 4 and I need 10! :rolleyes:

While I am getting the bolts I will probably sort out an order for other misc high tensile nuts and bolts. Buying them in small quantities from the local DIY shed is pointless as they are made of cheese there.

I am going to have to try and make the hub adaptors into some kind of simple disc brake with a parking brake lock if I am to use the driven pulley as a PTO.

I decided to take a load of scrap to the scrap metal yard today, I was cleaning my car out to take my furniture to college tomorrow and 'got carried away' in the tidy up. Came back with ÂŁ76. Not bad for the bits of dead engine and some old push bikes and some of the lead from my roof repairs. That's half the cost of the cable covered. :D
Woody,

Just about to walk out of the house to go to the post office. I got the spindles but I can't find the arm that links the spindles to the steering link rod. Well its a simple piece and you should have no difficulty fabricatinng it. I'll make a drawing and sens it to you.I've also included an old pair of the wheel bearing that are used in the front wheels. They are a bkit ratty but maybe you can use therm as examples. They are standard hardware store wheel barrow wheel bearings over here. Maybe you can find equivalents.

Got to go for now, sounds like you have the front wheels and rear wheels figutred out. Thats great! ! ! If your interested I have made steering gear up with a 3 to 1 ratio using chain, sprockets, self aligning ag. bearings and a bit of flat stock. If you can't find any thing at the scrap yard (you seem to have a good local yard) let me know and I'll forward a description.

By the way you can come and clean up my scrap pile any time your over here i'ts got to be going over two ton now. :D
 
#62 ·
That's great Jim, Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to another package to play with.:)
I got the aluminum plate to make a new end cap for the motor today, the postman was very curious as to what it was as it was the size of an A4 pad of paper but way too heavy!:D

I think I may have the steering in progress. I won, on Ebay, an old series Land Rover steering box and a Mini steering column and wheel, ÂŁ10 and 99p respectively so a good price.
I think I can cut the steering box to make it fit and then UJ the steering column to it.:)

I've got to work out a lesson plan for a drawing office practice class tomorrow now, and it is already 'tomorrow' so another late night!:eek:

:)
 
#64 ·
#67 ·
Thanks Dave. Rightly or wrongly, I felt very proud that my work was chosen for the Prince to use.:)


Today I decided to work on the transmission.

I looked at the small triple pulley to mount the big sprocket to and with a lot of measuring I decided I wanted the sprocket a littler further out still to make the motor shaft easier to line up. It would also save cutting the keyway in the pulley.

I machined one end of the pulley to locate on the boss on the original big pulley, gambling that the boss was true though cast. The dial gauge said it was only about 0.04" out in a slight bulge on one side so I filed a little off.:D I would have turned it true but it was too big for the lathe.
I then drilled and bolted the pulleys together lined up on a turned shaft to keep it true. Once I was sure it was ok I then turned the other end of the small pulley to create a flat face and a small spigot to locate the sprocket before that was also bolted on.

The bolts through the big pulley were going to be trapped between the pulley and the gearbox casing and the set screw was going to be hidden by the small pulley. I had to fit the big pulley to the shaft and then slowly bolt on the small pulley a few turns at a time on each bolt until it was tight. A qhick check showed that it was within 0.01" true. Would have like it to be better so I may find a better way if it is a problem.
The sprocket was then bolted on.



The bore of the small pulley will locate a second shaft which will have a bearing on it to support some of the radial loads.

I also began to make a new motor shaft sized to take the small sprocket. and that is on the lathe now.
I will get some sealed bearings for both the shafts before I finish machining them.

I then decided to have a look at the Land Rover steering box.
It felt rough and empty of oil. I slowly opened it up and found that it was full but of water not oil!:mad: No wonder it was cheap!

Well, on the basis that it didn't need to be perfect I set about overhauling it. Having dryed it out and given it all a good inspection it was missing one ball from the top bearing and the bottom bearing inner race had a few pits. Nothing to loose so I stripped it, cleaned it and packed it all with grease before reassembling. Not too bad, just a little grumble in a couple of spots in the four turns lock to lock but no perceptable play after adjustment and re-shimming.
I didn't take any photos as my phone was playing the sound track to Calamity Jane (I've got to learn it for the show in May) and my hands were covered in grease.

So given a reasonable steering box I decided to have a look at the Mini steering column to see if there was any useful parts. I took a chance and removed the steering wheel and tried it on the Land Rover column. And it fitted!:D
Perfect, a little Mini steering wheel for the little tractor.:)

So that all for now. I am going to shop for some bearings and do some college homework.
 
#68 ·
#70 ·
I made the motor drive shaft today.

It was turned to size to allow for a 6204 2RS bearing on each side of the sprocket. I cut the splines in the same way I cut the previous shaft splines, with an angle grinder, though by this stage the grinding disc was hardly bigger then the locking nut!

I needed to cut a keyway into the shaft and lacking a mill or any other keyway cutting equipment or machinery I decided to cut it by hand, the old fashioned way.

I drilled a hole at the blind end of the keyway by the shaft shoulder and then scribed two parallel lines to the width of the key. I then ground a small cold chisel to a narrow edge and began chiselling.


Having got a shallow sloping start I figured that I needed to drill the other end too. I chain drilled to depth and then chiseled out the waste forming square sides with radiused ends to the keyway.

I then made the key by cutting a piece of steel from a bit of 10mm thick plate and filing it down to width to fit. The excess was then cut off and the ends radiused.
I then filed the hight of the key to obtain a tight fit.
The small sprocket was then carefully drifted on.



I then fitted it to the motor and tried a length of old 08B-1 chain to fit. There is no coupler link on it.



I have now ordered a set of bearings from the seller jackbauer recommended and also, from the same seller, a new chain and coupling link.
I could have used the old chain but didn't fancy suffering the same fate that was thought to have happened to Parry Thomas and Babs, not that I'll be setting any speed records.:D
 
#72 ·
I'm going to have to make one of those jigs, and then buy some end mills. I can see this being something I will end up doing more of.

But for now, being a tractor, agricultural will suffice.
 
#73 ·
Jim's spindles were delivered an hour ago.

No import tax to pay either so that was good.
Many thanks Jim.:)

The delivery woke me. All this lack of sleep and I finally slept so soundly that I wasn't all that happy being woken but it was worth it. Unfortunately all that sleep came after my alarm clock went off and only got me through to lunch time. I should have been working hanging a door for a neighbour so I have sent my appologies and I will do it later rather then work on the tractor.

I also got my delivery of drive chain, chain couplers and bearings. The bearing were one short as the package split open in the post but I have emailed the seller about it so hopefully I will get a replacement.

I also had a 'Doh!' moment. Jim's spindles, and he did tell me, are 3/4". I machined my drive components to take 20mm bearings and ordered a bag of 10 as they were cheap at ÂŁ7.36 for 10. Doh!
I should have machined to 3/4" and just got one set of bearings to fit everything. I have asked the bearing seller to price me a set of 3/4" bearings along with the missing 20mm.
 
#74 ·
Jim's spindles were delivered an hour ago.
No import tax to pay either so that was good.
Many thanks Jim.:)
Glad you got them and that their was no duty.

The delivery woke me. All this lack of sleep and I finally slept so soundly that I wasn't all that happy being woken but it was worth it. Unfortunately all that sleep came after my alarm clock went off and only got me through to lunch time. I should have been working hanging a door for a neighbour so I have sent my appologies and I will do it later rather then work on the tractor.
With all of the hoopala around a visit of royality, along with what appeares to be a very busy schedule. (you hide it well but it peeks through). I can guess you could be a bit on the frazzled side and need a bit of extra sleep.

I also got my delivery of drive chain, chain couplers and bearings. The bearing were one short as the package split open in the post but I have emailed the seller about it so hopefully I will get a replacement.

I also had a 'Doh!' moment. Jim's spindles, and he did tell me, are 3/4". I machined my drive components to take 20mm bearings and ordered a bag of 10 as they were cheap at ÂŁ7.36 for 10. Doh!
I should have machined to 3/4" and just got one set of bearings to fit everything. I have asked the bearing seller to price me a set of 3/4" bearings along with the missing 20mm.
A couple of points on the spindles. Do you understand the terms TOOT, KPI, SAI, Camber, Caster, Toe, Trail, Wheel offset and Contact patch. All the correct angles are built into that set of spindles I sent. That is, WHEN you use the right angle and sizes on the the pieces you construct. Since you will be using the TT as a general yard and neigherbourhood vehicle we want to get it right so you arn't fighting the steering all of the time.

First thing, since you are ordering bearings, the King pin posts need to run in bushings not ball bearings. You could use taper bearings but that will just overcomplicate things.

For the King pin tubes you need to figure how to fit your components into the overall length allowed. This is the dimension from the support flange to the retaining washer and bolt. both tubes need to be the same length.

I use a piece of 1.5 inch OD X 1 inch ID steel tube. I get two 1 inch OD x 3/4 inch ID with a 1.5 inch flange hardware store bushings per side. You cut the tube to the proper length, then press the bushings into the tube, ream and polish the inside of the bushings until a proper fit is made.

A hint, the weight of the front end is going to rest on that little flange where the steering arms attach. It works but there is a lot of friction there. I always put a radial bearing with two thrust washers here. When I'm done I make up a little skirt seal to keep trash out of the radial bearing and allow grease to flow out.

All of the above should equal the dimension between the flange and the retaining bolt and washer.

For other bearings, If you plan on an articulated front axle (I would) you will need at least a 1 inch solid crosspin and bushings. Bigger is better here.

Since I don't have a Cad program (couldn't use it if I did) and what I do (did) use for dimensioned drawing went away when my system crashed. Then I bought a new machine with Windows 7 which won't load the old software. Now I've been sick and my hand shakes so much I can't freehand it.

What that was all leading up to . . . is we can't do any more to the front end until the rear end is finished and firmly locked down. Your steering box location is finalized. Length, wheel base, axle drop and front track is established.

What we want is the contact patch established in the linier center of the tire with a 1/2 inch or so of trail behind the verticle centerline. In order for the Toe Out On Turns (TOOT) to be correct the front track is going to have to be about the same width as the original tractor (we can fudge that a bit though)

Sorry to be so verbose Woody, I've been stuck in this house for over a week with this latest episode of the whats going around. I'm about ready to explode, in fact if I could stop wheezing and hacking long enough I think I would explode.
 
#75 ·
Hi Jim,

Steering geometry is not too much of a problem, studied it 25 years ago and still have the text books.:)

I was playing with the two bearing that you included and decided that they may make good bottom bearings for the king pins as they will take axial and radial loads. I can then bush the rest of the kingpin.

The bearings I have ordered will be for the wheels. Making axle hubs is going to be cheaper then buying some and the ones I can buy are for 1" axles so I would have to machine a sleeve anyway.

The axle will pivot and I will probably bush a 27mm bolt for it just because I have some. I am aiming for a couple of radius arms going back towards the rear axle on to a ball joint. That should line up with the steering box to reduce bump steer.

I am roughing out components but, as you say, I can settle on anything until the rear end is done and I know the track and wheel base. At the moment the wheel base is going to depend on what batteries I decide to use and how much space they take up.

I still have the motor end cap to make, motor mount, chain case, rear and wheel spacers. Then I need to figure out where I will sit and where my feet need to go. That will need to be fixed as I can't adjust my legs!:D That will then determine the steering wheel and hence the steering box.
 
#76 · (Edited)
I am just recovering from being ill this last week, probably exhaustion as no other symtoms except for extreme tiredness, fatigue and a slight fever. I did make it into work and taught a couple of classes and cancelled one but I suffered for it.

So I got on with some work yesterday and today.

I managed to pick up a very cheap pair of wheels and tyres that I decided to use as the bolt holes are 12mm on 4"pcd as opposed to the ones I had which were 6mm holes on a 6" or so pcd. They are also wider and with a higher load capacity.


I machined some tubes to take the hub bearings. I used scaffold tube as it was the right size and removed most of the galvanising so I could weld it.
I then started cutting some 10mm plate to make the flange for the wheel bolts.
All that hacksawing is hard work so I only managed to cut one, first into a hexagon and then into a, umm.... twelveagon?:eek: before turning it held on the centre bore. The bore was just a random hole from a hole saw but good enough as a start.


I then found that I couldn't hold the flange on the lathe chuck to machine the bore and mark the bolt holes.
I pondered it for a while before I decided to remove the chuck and use the back plate as a makeshift faceplate. The back plate had three holes in it so I cut a bit of aluminum plate to size and marked the three holes at 90mm pcd.
It didn't fit. The holes were not equidistant. I then drilled three more holes adjusted to fit and tapped to M8. I bolted the aluminium to the backplate and turned it round and made a centering rebate in it to fit the backplate. It was then reversed, refitted and trued up. I maked the four 4"pcd holes and then drilled and tapped to M8.
I could then bolt the flanges to the plate for turning and also use the same fitting to turn the motor end cap and any other large plates.:)


So now I have one of the flanges drilled and turned and pressed onto the hub.



I will tap the four holes to M12 for the bolts and then press the flange on to the hub for welding. I will need to work out the wheel offset relative to the steering arms to ensure that the wheels don't rub.

That's all for now. All that work and then theatre reherasals has left me shattered.
:)
 
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