[MrRockCrusher]

In the near future i plan to power my home using an ordinary power generator only the petrol motor will be replaced with a perpetual magnet motor and a series of compound gear trains to increase torque and RPM needed to do so (sounds crazy i know) but im more than positive it will work, my question is, can this same method then be used to replace the battery system in EV's? If so the build would now be lighter and would NEVER have to charge, Im not even a high school graduate so bash away at me all you want i can take it lol, just a thought that popped into my head and would like to get a pro's opinion on.

[Woodsmith]

Originally Posted by MrRockCrusher

In the near future i plan to power my home using an ordinary power generator only the petrol motor will be replaced with a perpetual magnet motor and a series of compound gear trains to increase torque and RPM needed to do so (sounds crazy i know) but im more than positive it will work, my question is, can this same method then be used to replace the battery system in EV's? If so the build would now be lighter and would NEVER have to charge, Im not even a high school graduate so bash away at me all you want i can take it lol, just a thought that popped into my head and would like to get a pro's opinion on.

Firstly, what do you mean by a 'perpetual magnet motor'? A permanent magnet motor will work fine as it is just a motor with magnets instead of field coils and will run from an electrical input.

Secondly, torque and rpm are inversley proportional. If one is increased the other decreases. You cannot make a gear train to increase both together.

Thirdly, try not to get into Perpetual Motion, even with magnets, as it is highly unlikely to work in such a way that you will get a useful net output at the current stage of human technological development.

[MrRockCrusher]

Thirdly, try not to get into Perpetual Motion, even with magnets, as it is highly unlikely to work in such a way that you will get a useful net output at the current stage of human technological development.[/quote]

Thanks much for the reply, but can you break down the third point for me please as it puts a huge dent in my goals, dose the voltage needed to power such mentioned fluctuate?

[Woodsmith]

Originally Posted by MrRockCrusher

Thanks much for the reply, but can you break down the third point for me please as it puts a huge dent in my goals, dose the voltage needed to power such mentioned fluctuate?

There are stickies on the forum about Perpetual Motion.

Basically, you can not get something for nothing. Ther ehave been plenty of 'motors' that appear to work using magnets that seem to spin without any electrical input.
As a closed system they would appear to work but more often then not they will have no net output of torque.

There are systems that do produce a small usable output but these tend to be made from super conducting materials and so do not produce sufficient output to cover the energy requirements for the cooling system.

Even kenetic energy systems that use a mass falling due to gravity do not produce enough output to lift the mass back up again.

Added to all this, every system has losses, frictional, electrical, etc and all that produces a loss that reduces even the best systems to much less then 100% efficient and so any output has to first make up that loss and some significant extra output.

Can I point you in this direction.

[MrRockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Woodsmith

There are stickies on the forum about perpetual motion.

Basically, you can not get something for nothing. Ther ehave been plenty of 'motors' that appear to work using magnets that seem to spin without any electrical input.
As a closed system they would appear to work but more often then not they will have no net output of torque.

There are systems that do produce a small usable output but these tend to be made from super conducting materials and so do not produce sufficient output to cover the energy requirements for the cooling system.

Even kenetic energy systems that use a mass falling due to gravity do not produce enough output to lift the mass back up again.

Added to all this, every system has losses, frictional, electrical, etc and all that produces a loss that reduces even the best systems to much less then 100% efficient and so any output has to first make up that loss and some significant extra output.

Can I point you in this direction.

Thank you good sir, going to do my homework

[icec0o1]

Originally Posted by MrRockCrusher

Thank you good sir, going to do my homework

You should know the first law of thermodynamics states that energy can't be created or destroyed. There can't be such a thing as a "perpetual magnet motor" which keeps giving you energy. The magnets do store a lot of energy in the process of making them, but they release it very very slowly over a number of years (as they get weaker).

Basically most all of the energy on earth has come from the sun. There is some geothermal (from the core of the earth) and some from radiation of radioactive elements which were created a long long time ago by an explosion of a star before they became part of the earth. The oil we're digging out of the ground is millions of years of plants absorbing the sun's energy and storing it in chemical bonds.

If you have the desire to invent something new, start thinking about what energy is and how you can store it, convert it, and use it. Because you simply can't create it

[dimitri]

Originally Posted by MrRockCrusher

(sounds crazy i know) but im more than positive it will work.

So you are intelligent enough to realize that it sounds crazy, yet still convinced that it will work I wonder what gives you such confidence? Do you really think you are smarter than millions of engineers who came before you and never been able to generate energy output without greater energy input?

Magnets don't store energy, they create EM field. This field allows to convert mechanical energy to electrical ( generator ) and reverse (motor), but there still must be greater energy input than output (to overcome conversion losses). Without energy input you cannot have energy output. EM field by itself is utterly useless to us.

[MrRockCrusher]

Originally Posted by dimitri

So you are intelligent enough to realize that it sounds crazy, yet still convinced that it will work I wonder what gives you such confidence? Do you really think you are smarter than millions of engineers who came before you and never been able to generate energy output without greater energy input?

Magnets don't store energy, they create EM field. This field allows to convert mechanical energy to electrical ( generator ) and reverse (motor), but there still must be greater energy input than output (to overcome conversion losses). Without energy input you cannot have energy output. EM field by itself is utterly useless to us.

Thanks for the input, besides the magnet theory, is there a way to replace the battery setup and produce the same voltage from an alternator/generator?

[dimitri]

Originally Posted by MrRockCrusher

Thanks for the input, besides the magnet theory, is there a way to replace the battery setup and produce the same voltage from an alternator/generator?

Of course, that is how serial hybrids work, like most modern locomotives for example. You have a source of energy such as diesel fuel, diesel engine which converts it to mechanical , then drives generator, which converts it to electrical, then drives electric motor, which runs wheels.

Its complicated and only makes sense if every component is carefully selected and designed to make overall efficiency worth the trouble. That is why you don't see many DIY serial hybrids, and that is why Chevy Volt has been in development for such a long time with millions spent on R&D and still unable to show their generator working as promised.

[dimitri]

I recommend reading this set of articles about hybrid locomotives. These are most amazing machines designed to squeeze out every drop of energy to move heavy loads across the country. It really puts things in perspective. You think locomotive designers would go thru all this trouble if they could just pack a box full of magnets?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/diesel-locomotive.htm

We can only hope that one day cars will be as efficient as these locomotives per pound of cargo they carry.