[One Equals Two]

Okay, to the point:

I want to spend as little money as possible.

I want it to go about 45 - 50 mph.

I want near "unlimited" range. Actually, 60-70 miles a day is fine.

I want it to be fairly reliable.

(Explanation why. I have little money to spend, so, obviously keeping the cost down would be ideal. I used to have a scooter that was a 2 stroker. It had 2.5 hp and would constantly make it to 30 mph. However, that was just too slow. Also, it required multiple fillups per day (commuting to school and back), and it constantly broke down. I had to disassemble it on the road several times in the month I used it. So I carried a tool pack with me as well, and a 1/2 gallons of gas, etc etc. In short, it wasn't convienient at all, despite the 100 mpg. The little 2 stroke was grossly over worked and super noisy as well. So, i sold it in favor of the much more expensive car I now drive.)

Anyway, I have an idea that of throwing together a hybrid scooter running on 12v. Why? I see it like this. 12v car battery (I know, not the best for evs), but cheap (I already have 2) and has good "power". Motor, starter motor from my old Neon. Free, and has a peak power of about 5-7 hp (560 amps at 12 v) . And then a motor from my old mower or weedwacker hooked to an alternator from my old Ford (also free). This would charge the battery when topped off and would be a lot easier on the ICE because of no varying loads. Also, if needed, I could run on ev mode only in case of engine failure, which happened to me all too often before. And, on short errands, ev only would work just fine (obviously, I am saying nothing new) The only thing I don't know much about are 12v controllers, or controllers in general. I know spacw will be an issue, but with an old blown gas engine scooter frame, it's doable. Anyway, I lean towards 12v stuff because I have most of it already, and because I could have an alternator charge the battery because it's natively 12-14v, not 24 or 36. And the starter, same thing. Anyway, II figure if the entire system is 12v, then I wont lose much to inverters and chargers, etc, boosting "mileage" etc. I may be thinking too simplistically here, but it seems to make sense to me as of now. But that's why I am asking..


Has anyone tried a 12v scooter before? Or a 12v ev in general? I am most likely overlooking something, but as of now it seems feisable. Please feel free to point out errors in the logic, etc. If this works out well,bI just may try a car series hybrid later as well.

[Woodsmith]

Ummm, where to begin.

Forget the starter motor. It doesn't have proper bearings in it and is not designed for continuous running. If you try it will overheat the motor and also burn up the bushings. It is also heavy for its output.

Forget the car battery. The plates will be knackered after a couple of runs. At least use Optima batteries or other deep cycle types.

Forget the weed whacker as a generator, it will burn more gas then if you just powered the scooter on an ICE. This is just down to losses in each conversion of energy through out the whole drive train.

Forget the alternator, they are really inefficent as they are designed to use the massive amount of spare capacity of ICE power in a car to generate a measly little output.

You would be better off getting a decent motor, controller and a set of batteries and making it completely electric IMO.

[One Equals Two]

I know a full electric scooter would be ideal, but if I manage the run it out, I am dead in the water. I don't want something like that (I need to be punctual). So that's where the hybrid thing comes in. I see a few gas generators that run on .7 gal of gas for 8 hr at half load. Granted, that's at 500w output, but even at that, I can't see how the weed wacker would be worse. Same 4 stroke engine. Anyway, and the alternator seems to be a 60-70% efficient generator, so yes, although not amazingly efficient, it's no different than if I hooked up a stand alone generator to charrge the battery.

I understand the need for a different motor though. I have some questions about hub motors. I see some 1000w ones for not too much, so I wonder, if I get 2, would I only figuratively double my acceleration, or would top speed change too?

I understand the need for a new abttery too. Pretty much I wanted to see if I could throw this thing together for next to free and get away with it..... I had other questions but have already forgotten...

[Woodsmith]

Oh you can certainly 'throw something together', that is fine.

What is your college commute like? How far, what sort of terrain?

It may be possible to have enough battery to make it all the way and maybe back again if you can't charge up while there.

The efficiency loss with the weed whacker is from using it to generate electricity and then using that to run a motor. You have two additional loses in the train that you wouldn't have if you just used the weed whacker to drive the scooter.
Granted that you will also have energy in the battery as well but you will have diminishing returns due to the weight of the ICE, fuel and alternator on the battery and motor and vice versa.

If the one 12v system gave you any usable range at all then most of that will be eaten up by carrying the ICE and stuff around until you need it.
Then you will be runing the ICE to charge the battery before you can move off again. Otherwise you will be trying to run the motor and charge the battery on the alternator at the same time which will have a massive effect on fuel consumption.

Lets see is all electric is even feasible and then look at the alternatives and cost saving.

[camerondmm]

Checkout the "LongRanger" on this page: http://www.atomiczombie.com/main.aspx?click=plans (it is the second to last one).

Gives you an idea of what it takes to do ~100km on an electric 2 wheeler. But keep in mind, it is a lot lighter than any scooter.

[One Equals Two]

My commute is about 20 mi one way, but I rarely go just to school and back. I go shopping occasionally, to my friend's, etc. It's vey hilly for a few miles or so too. I wanted a scooter so it could be legal to go fast on the streets. I got pulled over on my goped and was fined $700 for no insurance once, and so far I haven't been able to convince the state to drop the charges because they want money from me. Also, electric bikes are also illegal here with no insurance, so, seriously, I need a registerable vehicle. I like the idea of a mountian bike honestly, but for some reason, bikers here get stuff thrown at them all the time and people with big diesels like to blow smoke in our face (pull up next to us and let off on the gas). It very annoying honestly. The scooter or motorbike would at least be quick enough to not let a bunch of cars go by to taunt me...

Anyway, I've thought about electric motorbikes, but then it looks like a whole different area of cost. I can save up for some nice ev parts, but I had wanted to make the hybrid with mthe stuff I had in front of me. I guess it's not going to be much of a useful vehcle right now, so anyway, I guess I am already looking at an electric something else.

All electric is okay for in town, but I often go on long trips (300 miles) so a hybrid will still be ideal for me. I like that idea because then I can run all electric for school, and hybrid for road trips. But I can use my Taurus for that though since I get 33-36 mpg freeway. It really just boils down to which is most cost effective for me. Haha sorry, I am kind of going around in circles right now. Thanks for the tips and info guys, it's helping.

And, one more question. High amps on a 12v system is a lot more inefficient than a 24v system with have the amps right? Just checking myself.