[StanSimmons]

I am in the initial planning stages of an EV conversion of a Honda ST1100 shaft drive, water cooled motorcycle (ICE curb weight ~700lbs) for commuting. I've looked at a lot of different motors and AC-15 or AC-20 look like they might be a good fit. I'm not sure yet what voltage I'll be running, but I'm shooting for somewhere between 72-120VDC and at least 10kWh. I have to get the ICE out so that I can measure and mock up pack and motor configurations. I'm sure I can find the ~75 liters of volume for a 10kWh pack of LiFePO4 prismatics, but I want more.

I believe that the shaft drive ratio is somewhere around 1.8:1, I think I'll need a gear box fabricated rather than a direct connection to the shaft. I think that I may be able to mount the drive vertically and have a 90 degree gear box attached to the shaft. I think that configuration would leave the maximum space available for a battery pack. I would really appreciate some thoughts/ideas about this. What type of gears should I look at for this type of configuration? Would such a mounting position require thrust bearings to be installed in the motor?

I will not be using the bike for racing, likely will never have it over 100mph, and am looking for range rather than acceleration. For a fairly large commuter bike like this, is the AC-15 or 20 a good fit? I've also looked a the NetGain and Kostov 9" DC Series motors, but the weight on those seems excessive for a motorcycle. If I end up with a DC Series motor, I'll likely use a SolJr controller. Whatever direction I end up going in, I plan on using the existing water cooling system for the controller and charger.

What motor/controller combo would you guys recommend? Am I nuts thinking about the 90 degree gearbox?

[RIPPERTON]

On the right track but your final drive ratio is 2.83:1
http://www.pan-europe.utvinternet.ie...ifications.htm
so think again about another gear box, I think its limit but
90 degree drive is smart, Yabert did it on his DRZ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8obaiqmVsg
Your idea about vertical axis motor straight up the middle of the bike is good
but longitudinal down in the belly might be better and belt or chain up to
the shaft
Your choice of cell is right for a commuter and you should easily get 10kWh in.
definitely keep the AC motor you will be on the regen all the time in the traffic. Kelly (165v) or Sevcon (96v) depending on you voltage choice.

[StanSimmons]

Originally Posted by RIPPERTON

On the right track but your final drive ratio in 2.83:1
http://www.pan-europe.utvinternet.ie...ifications.htm
so think again about another gear box, I think its limit

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Originally Posted by RIPPERTON

but
90 degree drive is smart, Yabert did it on his DRZ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8obaiqmVsg
Your idea about vertical axis motor straight up the middle of the bike is good

Thanks for that link, I'll have to do some research on what Yabert did.

Originally Posted by RIPPERTON

but longitudinal down in the belly might be better and belt or chain up to
the shaft

I've also been looking at the Goodyear PD belt system for a belly mount similar to the LithiumHawk but I think I may have more room vertically, I'll know more after I remove the ICE and do some measurements.

Originally Posted by RIPPERTON

Your choice of cell is right for a commuter and you should easily get 10kWh in.
definitely keep the AC motor you will be on the regen all the time in the traffic. Kelly (165v) or Sevcon (96v) depending on you voltage choice.

[RIPPERTON]

Originally Posted by StanSimmons

I'm not sure what you mean here.

The 2.8:1 final reduction is almost short enough.
the rest you can do with the belt from motor to shaft.
maybe 3.5:1 overall

[StanSimmons]

I was planning to measure the existing final gearing and calculate the gearbox to end up with a ratio somewhere between 2nd and 3rd gear. Hopefully the math will work out so that I can use off the shelf gears.

Does anybody have any comments about recommended motors?

[Rational]

Originally Posted by StanSimmons

Does anybody have any comments about recommended motors?

Post spec's for your candidate motors.

Range rather than accel or high top speed says w-h/kg rather than w/kg for the batteries, see fig. 9 below
http://web.mit.edu/sloan-auto-lab/re...owertrains.pdf

[RogerK]

Stan, Roger here (the Goldwing guy). About your drive motor idea, I question the vertical mount and 90 degree gearbox. First, I think you will lose some efficiency through a 90 degree box. It too would be heavy and maintenance. Also, comming out of the gearbox you really should have a flex coupling to your driveshaft (to account for disallignment), and that will take up some of the space you hoped to gain. Putting the motor in the belly I think works well. Keeps a low center of gravity. I measured a 32" tunnel on my Goldwing above the motor and below the seats where I can put batteries. I think about 10" deep. The shaft on the motor could couple either on the front or the rear. It doesn't really matter because I think a shaft is needed for the legnth of the motor (parellel to it) so that you can have a bearing both on the front and the rear. This is needed to give that shaft rigidity and allow a flex coupling at the end to the bikes drive shaft. When I get a design I will share.

So you are looking at 10KWH. Wow, I was looking at just over 4. But if I can pack more in I would. Higher voltage would be nice. I need to go through my ratios, but if I got to 96 volts, I bet I'd get up to 80 or 90 mph. Let me know your thoughts on the drive.

Oh, one final thing - I question the need to cool the controller. Seems to me air cool is sufficient, especially on a moving bike. Why run all those extra systems and pull power to do it?

Roger

[StanSimmons]

Roger,
You may be right about the gearbox losses, I haven't done the math on that yet. I had planned on keeping the factory U-joint at the motor end of the drive shaft to take care of minor flexing. I've also been looking at the Goodyear PD belt system for a belly mount similar to the LithiumHawk, that build uses a Goldwing rear end.

In Minnesota, I suspect air cooling would be fine on all but the hottest of summer days. In Texas, I want to have a little extra insurance against melting my controller in August. I was planning on putting the controller and charger inside the gas tank, where airflow would be minimal, even with the bottom of the tank removed. Since I already have the radiator, it seemed like liquid cooling wouldn't be too difficult or pricey.

I have a Prius inverter cooling pump that moves a little more than 20 lpm while using about 2 amps at 13.8v. It cost me $89 on ebay. I'll probably end up getting a two-pass aluminum chill plate off of ebay for ~$100 and mounting the controller on one side and the charger on the other. If I end up with a DC system and get a Soliton Jr, I'll be talking to the evnetics guys about having them pre-drill mounting holes for the charger on the underside of the SolJr. Since the charger and controller will never be running simultaneously, a single cooling path should be plenty.

[RogerK]

Yesterday I placed my motor into the general position on the Goldwing to get an idea of fit. So far, so good. It is in the belly, and it looks like it will work as expected with a shaft parellel to the motor running back to the U joint and rear drive shaft. I went through the ratios and it looks like it will be closer to 1:1.5. That actuallt helps me because it will allow more room for the pulleys. I need to come up with a tightener system, probably just and ideler pulley. So I am getting close to a design on this. I will probably put it all on CAD. I'll try to post a picture to show. (Right now the family is yelling to start Christmas!)

As for your cooling, you may be right about Texas heat especially if the controller is in confined space. Electronics shuld not get hotter than 50 C or about 135 F.

Merry Christmas
Roger

[CrazyAl]

Originally Posted by RogerK

Yesterday I placed my motor into the general position on the Goldwing to get an idea of fit. So far, so good. It is in the belly, and it looks like it will work as expected with a shaft parellel to the motor running back to the U joint and rear drive shaft.

What sort of motor did you end up getting?