[Richard Wood]

Hi All

We have so many cheap Japanese cars in New Zealand and are unlikely to see secondhand imports of electric cars for many years. So what are the major barriers to a leap in home EV conversions in NZ?

My guess is that the overlap between those that want to do it and those with the money to fund the entire job is quite low.

I just went through evalbum.com and noted down the stated price of most of the New Zealand cars (listed down below). Naturally there is a range and the major factor would be battery choice. I gather that AC vs DC doesn't make much difference to motor/controller price these days. Naturally, as this is about doing the conversion yourself, you are avoiding that part of the cost of conversion.

For those living in suburbs and driving to work each day I am looking at the data and thinking $20,000 may need to be budgeted on conversion to get a reliable vehicle capable of going the distance. The raw cost savings of using electricity over petrol might conservatively be over $50 a week. So just from looking at that one major cost saving, it would make it worth putting up to $43,000 on an existing 6% mortgage. Without access to a convenient mortgage, car or personal loan interest rates are more like 14% from memory, limiting worthwhile expenditure to $18,000-odd, but more of a problem of nothing to secure it against.

I'm no expert in financing - is my maths right? Is financing a car conversion a barrier? If so, what suggested solutions do we have?

Best regards
Richard

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From EVAlbum.com for New Zealand:
1988 Mazda B1600 Ute - $13,000 est
2000 Toyota Vitz - $13,000 plus $6000 for car
1990 Toyota Starlet - $11,000 including car at $2100
1986 Subaru Domingo van - $10,000
1971 Volkswagen Beetle - US$11,500
1995 Toyota Celica - not stated
1991 Toyota MR2 - US$10,000
1987 Mitsubishi Tredia - US$9000
2005 Suzuki Swift-E - $25,000
1995 Holden Calibra - <$25,000 est including car
1993 Toyota Corolla - $25,000
1992 Honda Civic - $25,000
1993 Ford Festiva - not stated
1974 Vauxhall Viva - $2000
1991 Honda Civic - $16,780
1987 Suzuki Alto - $12,500
1973 Citoen Dyane - $25,000
1993 Ford Courier - $16,600
2005 Toyota RAV4 - $70,000
1998 Mercedes Benz A160 - $45,000 est
1996 Subaru Legacy - <$20,000 est
1995 BMW 328i/4 SE - $7000 plus $4020 for car
1983 Mazda 323 - not stated
1937 Austin 8 - not stated
1963 Morris Mini - not stated

[albo2]

Hi Richard I have done just that, I don't think it's entirely an economic decision, to me it's just the right thing to do.
I think our current govt is very short sighted when it comes to EV's we are the only Western country not offering incentives for early adopters, EV's could be the answer to alot of NZ's problems, we spend more a week on foreign oil than we make from our diary industry, we can generate our own power and keep the money in NZ, (that is while our power is NZ owned). We've lost our direction and seem hell bent on mining our national parks and drilling for oil, that's my rant over.

[Readykilowatt]

With peak oil behind us and the EROI of oil getting worse by the year we should be looking at what the return is taking that into account, not the return on current prices.

When I started converting Celica that has done over 29000km now, my thoughts were I can not afford not to do It.

As to the battery cost, over the life of the batteries I would like to bet that the engine related costs, timing belts, oil filters ect would be close to the same as he Bat replacement cost.

With the solar panels that I have on the garage roof,( $9,000 worth makes enough power to drive 25000km per year) over there life that would work out at less than 1 cent per km. That is a farily good return on my money.

Pete

[albo2]

Not to mention the 3 tons of CO2 you now don't emit

[LVVTA]

Richard

Your $43k mortgage at 6% is $2580 interest only, which is more than the petrol savings.

A $20k conversion budget realistically only gets around $8k of batteries so teh range won't be massive, this limiting the daily distance.

I've done some numbers using a Corolla as an example and pay back is well over 10 years. I calculated a $28k cost to run a petrol Corolla for 10 years and $31k for an EV conversion. It doesn't stack up on a cost only basis for a commuter car, you'd need to do it for the love, or buy a Prius C instead.

Dan

[albo2]

So did you subtract the price of the other car or is it only electric cars that have to have a pay back period just as well its free to pump 3 tons of carbon monoxide a year into the environment

[Duncan]

Hi Guys

This is probably not what you want to hear

- Anybody thinking that he is saving money by doing a conversion is deluding himself-

Do it because you want to

There is no way it will be as cheap as using a cheap old car and a bike

Modern cars last for ever - 3 - 4 - 500,000Km is not unusual

a $2,000 car can last 10 years

Any conversion is going to cost $10,000 - you can buy a lot of petrol for $8,000

My car is being done on the cheap - I don't dare add everything up!

And thats with a small (tiny) pack, a $100 motor, an OpenRevolt controller and a bad boy charger!

[LVVTA]

I agree with Duncan, except that there are some commercial uses that may work out cost positive.

I can't attach my Excel file but my quick attempt at a 10 year comparison, with thoughts to the financing variables, was easy to do.

Richard, if you shorten the commute, the likely yearly kilometres travelled drops and therefore so does the petrol cost. In my mind it only really makes sense for a vehicle doing high kms and not straying far away from a base (for top ups or battery swaps). A courier van is the ideal application.

[Richard Wood]

Hi Guys

Great to see the discussion about whether EVs are economically worthwhile, it would be nice if they are, but so long as they aren't outrageously more expensive if they aren't. Let's just assume it is a good thing to do both personally and as a public good.

If I can lead us back to the original question, I suspect there are many people who would want an EV and would be prepared to convert them but don't have the dosh. Do you think this is a barrier to doing bulk EV conversions in NZ, and if so how would it be solved, and are there any other barriers to mass EV conversion of our huge amount of cheap second hand cars?

Richard

[albo2]

Hi Richard as you are probably aware the major cost to this is the batteries This will over time come down I can remember when a video player was over 1000 bucks, What is required is to get people driving these cars maybe we need a show day where people can be taken for a test drive, it is going to also take a change in mindset where we pay up front for quality, this not only goes for electric cars but for a good deal of the products we purchase, designed and perceived obsolescence needs to become a thing of the past, we do have a chance to adapt quickly or face sky rocketing prices as oil runs out, lets not forget China and India have a growing middle class they also want a car and why shouldn't they, we also need to start asking our politicians the hard questions and have some incentives in place for the early adopters it is these people that will spread the word that is get people be hind the wheel of these cars