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  #1  
Old 06-06-2012, 11:10 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Posts: 70
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Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

Tonight was the first time that I smelled my motor,
after driving 15 mins mostly freeway (60MPH) and
immediately after arriving opening the hood (to see
if everything was OK) and though there were quite
warm components in the (EV100) controller, the smell
came from the motor which was warm but not really hot
to the touch. Since this motor is attached to an
automatic gearbox, my expectation is that:

1. The motor is being lugged. I watched the battery
amp meter closely while driving and I noticed that
all the driving at lower speeds has the battery amps
staying below 200A. Only when getting up to higher speed
(above 45 MPH) the battery amps start to climb and at
top speed of 60 MPH the pack delivers 300A at just under
110V. (more on that later) I need to connect an RPM
counter (or repurpose one of the unused meters in the dash)
but I expect that the motor never gets beyond 2500 RPM.
The truck is definitely lacking power, so I would really like
to either convert to manual (which is a lot of work) or get
a different Diff ratio, so the motor does reach higher RPM
by the time it reaches the truck's top speed, so the EV100
controller can close its bypass contactor and give full
battery voltage to the motor.
This is an 11" GE motor so it should have enough power
even at "only" 120V pack.

2. The motor (and especially the brushes) need forced
cooling. I looked better and found a 3" hose connecting
to the motor from the controller enclosure. This means
that I really need to put the lid on the controller and
insert the fuse for the fan that pushes air into the
controller enclosure and from there into the motor.

The power at 60MPH of 300A at 110V is too high when I
compare it to the 50A at 312V that my S10 used to take
at 55 MPH constant - the S10 was 4800 lbs while this Ford
Ranger is under 4400 lbs. I already pumped the tires to
40 PSI but I did not check their toe-in yet. Also, this
truck has not been running much in the past years, so
there may be a brake or bearing dragging, although the
truck rolls easily on level terrain.
Reason that the current is quite constant around 200A
for all the speeds below Freeway speed is due to the
automatic tranny keeping the motor speed rather constant
(probably around 1500 RPM) so the motor current
limit will cause low power into the motor, because
RPMs are low, so voltage is low so duty cycle is low
so even if the 200 battery amps are multiplied into
the 500A controller limit, the low voltage (40% duty
cycle turns 200A 110V into 500A 44V) causes the
acceleration to be very disappointing until higher
speeds are finally reached and the motor RPM climb,
so the duty cycle clims and the motor gets more power
and that is exactly what I am experiencing.
I do have the impression that the transmission is
locking (or at least it switches to the highest gear)
at Freeway speeds, so that seems to be OK although not
as efficient as a manual gearbox.
Acceleration from standstill is abysmal after the first
few feet, so that is another indication of the tranny
switching at the wrong points.
I do not think that a 1989 Ford Ranger tranny can be
reprogrammed to switch at higher RPMs but that would
probably be the best solution - keeping the tranny
continuously in "kickdown" mode (low gear to allow
the input to run higher RPM and deliver more power)

Before I dig into the (unknown to me) parts of this
truck - does anybody have experience with this and
can give advice?

Thanks!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Voltswagon
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:11 AM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion

That makes sense. My 40C difference was from the measured high in the
brushes. The motor case delta would be much smaller with the larger
mass, surface area, and natural air exposure.

Squirrels do have higher air-flow, but I felt mine was more than
adequate, wish I'd gone with the 3" instead. I think it's 150 CFM, not
that that means much.

The blower really just needs to not restrict the airflow while in low
gear.
That ensures that when stationary or in higher gear you are getting the
same level of cooling.

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/cooling-my-
conversion-tp4655375p4655454.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2012, 10:15 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
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Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

Look closely for an electrical or vacuum input to the tranny that tells it =
to hold a gear at higher RPM. I had a car that I would reach down by hand a=
nd close the kickdown switch -- it would rev to redline even with gentle ac=
celerator inputs. If you find a vacuum line try drawing a vacuum on it.

Kudos to you for getting an automatic tranny to work!



________________________________
From: Cor van de Water <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu> =

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

[top]

Tonight was the first time that I smelled my motor,
after driving 15 mins mostly freeway (60MPH) and
immediately after arriving opening the hood (to see
if everything was OK) and though there were quite
warm components in the (EV100) controller, the smell
came from the motor which was warm but not really hot
to the touch. Since this motor is attached to an
automatic gearbox, my expectation is that:

1. The motor is being lugged. I watched the battery
amp meter closely while driving and I noticed that
all the driving at lower speeds has the battery amps
staying below 200A. Only when getting up to higher speed
(above 45 MPH) the battery amps start to climb and at
top speed of 60 MPH the pack delivers 300A at just under
110V. (more on that later) I need to connect an RPM
counter (or repurpose one of the unused meters in the dash)
but I expect that the motor never gets beyond 2500 RPM.
The truck is definitely lacking power, so I would really like
to either convert to manual (which is a lot of work) or get
a different Diff ratio, so the motor does reach higher RPM
by the time it reaches the truck's top speed, so the EV100
controller can close its bypass contactor and give full
battery voltage to the motor.
This is an 11" GE motor so it should have enough power
even at "only" 120V pack.

2. The motor (and especially the brushes) need forced
cooling. I looked better and found a 3" hose connecting
to the motor from the controller enclosure. This means
that I really need to put the lid on the controller and
insert the fuse for the fan that pushes air into the
controller enclosure and from there into the motor.

The power at 60MPH of 300A at 110V is too high when I
compare it to the 50A at 312V that my S10 used to take
at 55 MPH constant - the S10 was 4800 lbs while this Ford
Ranger is under 4400 lbs. I already pumped the tires to


40 PSI but I did not check their toe-in yet. Also, this
truck has not been running much in the past years, so
there may be a brake or bearing dragging, although the
truck rolls easily on level terrain.
Reason that the current is quite constant around 200A
for all the speeds below Freeway speed is due to the
automatic tranny keeping the motor speed rather constant
(probably around 1500 RPM) so the motor current
limit will cause low power into the motor, because
RPMs are low, so voltage is low so duty cycle is low
so even if the 200 battery amps are multiplied into
the 500A controller limit, the low voltage (40% duty
cycle turns 200A 110V into 500A 44V) causes the
acceleration to be very disappointing until higher
speeds are finally reached and the motor RPM climb,
so the duty cycle clims and the motor gets more power
and that is exactly what I am experiencing.
I do have the impression that the transmission is
locking (or at least it switches to the highest gear)
at Freeway speeds, so that seems to be OK although not
as efficient as a manual gearbox.
Acceleration from standstill is abysmal after the first
few feet, so that is another indication of the tranny
switching at the wrong points.
I do not think that a 1989 Ford Ranger tranny can be
reprogrammed to switch at higher RPMs but that would
probably be the best solution - keeping the tranny
continuously in "kickdown" mode (low gear to allow
the input to run higher RPM and deliver more power)

Before I dig into the (unknown to me) parts of this
truck - does anybody have experience with this and
can give advice?

Thanks!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 =


-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Voltswagon
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:11 AM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion

That makes sense. My 40C difference was from the measured high in the
brushes. The motor case delta would be much smaller with the larger
mass, surface area, and natural air exposure.

Squirrels do have higher air-flow, but I felt mine was more than
adequate, wish I'd gone with the 3" instead. I think it's 150 CFM, not
that that means much. =


The blower really just needs to not restrict the airflow while in low
gear. =

That ensures that when stationary or in higher gear you are getting the
same level of cooling.

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/cooling-my-
conversion-tp4655375p4655454.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2012, 12:16 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
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Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

Hello Cor,

What I did with my automatic, was to get rid of the automatic value body and
replace it with a manual value body. This is a easy replacement, this unit
is right at the bottom of the the transmission which is a bolt in unit.

Also when you install a manual value body, you do not need any vacuum
modulator which is remove and seal with a modulator plug.

It is best to use a torque converter with a very low lock up rpm. My unit
starts to move the EV at 300 rpm which gives a additional gear ratio of
1.8:1 and becomes full lock up at 1700 rpm at a gear ratio of 1.0:1.

You have to shift it like a manual. I shift up to the next gear at about
1800 rpm which is the sweet spot of the motor and when I reach 1800 rpm
again, shift it again.

The starting overall gear ratio with my manual was about 19:1 in 1st and
13:1 in 2nd. With the automatic, which adds 1.8:1 gear ratio, it becomes
27:1 in 1st. As the rpm raises from 300 to 1800 rpm, the gear ratio varies
from 27:1 to 16:1. I then shift to 2nd at 1800 rpm or 16:1 which is still
16:1 overall gear ratio in the 2nd gear.

The rpm drops while shifting and when it reaches 1800 rpm the overall gear
ratio varies to 10:1 in 2nd gear. This method keeps the motor ampere
constant at 200 amps which is the normal running ampere of a GE-11 or
WarP-11 motor. The battery ampere ranges from 65 to 80 ampere while
climbing a residential steep hill at 25 mph.

Level grade driving, the motor is at about 150 amps while the battery ampere
is 50 amperes at speeds up to 45 mph in 3rd gear. The 3rd gear ratio is
1.0:1 and the differential is a 5.57:1 for a 6600 lb EV.

I can also accelerated starting out in 3rd gear which the motor ampere may
go to 300 amps. The overall ratio at start is the torque converter adding
1.8:1 x 5.57:1 = 10.026:1 which is the same ratio as in 2nd gear. After
accelerating, the motor ampere comes back to about 150 ampere with the
battery ampere of 50 amps.

It is best to change the differential gear ratio to at least a 4.11:1 for a
3000 lb EV or 4.56:1 for a 4000 lb EV. My EV original had a standard
automatic transmission with a 2.78:1 differential. In 1st gear ratio of
2.75:1, the overall ratio was only 7.645:1 at lock up at 3300 rpm which is
too high for a EV but works for a engine.

My EV is now a lot safer while stop on hills when I turn on the idle switch
to keep it about 300 rpm with out using any brakes. While park on a hill, I
now can use the PARK position and the emergency brake instead of just using
the emergency brake when I had the manual. Sometimes I had to use a wheel
chock as a back up.

Driving the same exact route with this unit, I may use less ah/mile than I
did with the manual. It is great for pushing through a foot of snow and I
can hold it going down a hill by shifting into a lower gear.

Used a manual valve body that has a Push to Start feature. Which is
normally use for one vehicle is pushing the vehicle, will allow the engine
or motor to turn over. This allows the motor to turn over while coasting
down hill which allows for some REGEN action.

You can get manual valve bodies for any automatic from tci.com. Talk to the
tech about any additional info.

Roland







From: Cor van de Water <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

Tonight was the first time that I smelled my motor,
after driving 15 mins mostly freeway (60MPH) and
immediately after arriving opening the hood (to see
if everything was OK) and though there were quite
warm components in the (EV100) controller, the smell
came from the motor which was warm but not really hot
to the touch. Since this motor is attached to an
automatic gearbox, my expectation is that:

1. The motor is being lugged. I watched the battery
amp meter closely while driving and I noticed that
all the driving at lower speeds has the battery amps
staying below 200A. Only when getting up to higher speed
(above 45 MPH) the battery amps start to climb and at
top speed of 60 MPH the pack delivers 300A at just under
110V. (more on that later) I need to connect an RPM
counter (or repurpose one of the unused meters in the dash)
but I expect that the motor never gets beyond 2500 RPM.
The truck is definitely lacking power, so I would really like
to either convert to manual (which is a lot of work) or get
a different Diff ratio, so the motor does reach higher RPM
by the time it reaches the truck's top speed, so the EV100
controller can close its bypass contactor and give full
battery voltage to the motor.
This is an 11" GE motor so it should have enough power
even at "only" 120V pack.

2. The motor (and especially the brushes) need forced
cooling. I looked better and found a 3" hose connecting
to the motor from the controller enclosure. This means
that I really need to put the lid on the controller and
insert the fuse for the fan that pushes air into the
controller enclosure and from there into the motor.

The power at 60MPH of 300A at 110V is too high when I
compare it to the 50A at 312V that my S10 used to take
at 55 MPH constant - the S10 was 4800 lbs while this Ford
Ranger is under 4400 lbs. I already pumped the tires to
40 PSI but I did not check their toe-in yet. Also, this
truck has not been running much in the past years, so
there may be a brake or bearing dragging, although the
truck rolls easily on level terrain.
Reason that the current is quite constant around 200A
for all the speeds below Freeway speed is due to the
automatic tranny keeping the motor speed rather constant
(probably around 1500 RPM) so the motor current
limit will cause low power into the motor, because
RPMs are low, so voltage is low so duty cycle is low
so even if the 200 battery amps are multiplied into
the 500A controller limit, the low voltage (40% duty
cycle turns 200A 110V into 500A 44V) causes the
acceleration to be very disappointing until higher
speeds are finally reached and the motor RPM climb,
so the duty cycle clims and the motor gets more power
and that is exactly what I am experiencing.
I do have the impression that the transmission is
locking (or at least it switches to the highest gear)
at Freeway speeds, so that seems to be OK although not
as efficient as a manual gearbox.
Acceleration from standstill is abysmal after the first
few feet, so that is another indication of the tranny
switching at the wrong points.
I do not think that a 1989 Ford Ranger tranny can be
reprogrammed to switch at higher RPMs but that would
probably be the best solution - keeping the tranny
continuously in "kickdown" mode (low gear to allow
the input to run higher RPM and deliver more power)

Before I dig into the (unknown to me) parts of this
truck - does anybody have experience with this and
can give advice?

Thanks!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Voltswagon
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:11 AM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion

That makes sense. My 40C difference was from the measured high in the
brushes. The motor case delta would be much smaller with the larger
mass, surface area, and natural air exposure.

Squirrels do have higher air-flow, but I felt mine was more than
adequate, wish I'd gone with the 3" instead. I think it's 150 CFM, not
that that means much.

The blower really just needs to not restrict the airflow while in low
gear.
That ensures that when stationary or in higher gear you are getting the
same level of cooling.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-08-2012, 04:45 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
EVDL List Bot
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
EVDL List is on a distinguished road
Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes
it much more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.

If your car lets you, try it some time: turn off the engine/motor
while you're coasting in neutral in a parking lot and steer. It's much
more difficult than a system that was designed for manual steering.

-Morgan LaMoore

[quote] Bill Dube <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> If you just remove the belt, the pump can block the flow of fluid and
> make turning quite difficult. Depending on the particular system, it
> can help to disconnect the hoses from the pump and then connect them
> to each other. Leave them full of fluid.
>

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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  #5  
Old 06-08-2012, 05:25 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
EVDL List Bot
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
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Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
Of Morgan LaMoore
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes it much
more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.

If your car lets you, try it some time: turn off the engine/motor while
you're coasting in neutral in a parking lot and steer. It's much more
difficult than a system that was designed for manual steering.

-Morgan LaMoore

[quote] Bill Dube <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> If you just remove the belt, the pump can block the flow of fluid and
> make turning quite difficult. Depending on the particular system, it
> can help to disconnect the hoses from the pump and then connect them
> to each other. Leave them full of fluid.
>

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2012, 05:35 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
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Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

[quote]Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes
> it much more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.

I talked to a hydraulics expert, Prof. Ernie Parker at the Hennepin
Community College in Minneapolis MN. According to him, automotive power
steering pumps are specially designed. If you remove the belt, the pump
blocks the flow of fluid (unless it can rotate), so indeed, it is going
to be harder to steer with the pump not turning.

These pumps have some other odd characteristics. They need to provide
enough flow and pressure to steer at low RPM (engine idling while you
park). But as the RPM climbs, a normal pump would then have too much
pressure and flow. So the seals are designed to "leak" at high speeds to
limit the pressure.

While easy, it's also a lossy way to do it. It's equivalent to using a
resistor as a motor speed controller; it burns up the excess power as
heat. So, the pump runs hotter at high RPM, even though the power
steering is doing very little work.

If you're running your EV motor at a higher RPM than stock (to reduce
its current draw and improve its efficiency), you may need to change the
pulley sizes to keep the power steering pump speed down so it doesn't
overheat.

--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do these great deeds, worth repeating.
-- Ben Franklin, from Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #7  
Old 06-09-2012, 10:15 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
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Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just conne=
cted directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted pow=
er steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2. It's=
12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't waste s=
o much energy.

Bruce


[quote]Mark Grasserwrote:

Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
Of Morgan LaMoore
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes it much
more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.

If your car lets you, try it some time: turn off the engine/motor while
you're coasting in neutral in a parking lot and steer. It's much more
difficult than a system that was designed for manual steering.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Bill Dube <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> If you just remove the belt, the pump can block the flow of fluid and =

> make turning quite difficult. Depending on the particular system, it =

> can help to disconnect the hoses from the pump and then connect them =

> to each other. Leave them full of fluid.
>

__________________________
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| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #8  
Old 06-09-2012, 10:55 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
EVDL List Bot
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
EVDL List is on a distinguished road
Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I just now went outsides, slacked the tensioner pulley,
removed the belt and drove the truck without power steering.
It drives in the same way as my previous EV truck, needs
a little arm-work to turn when driving slow but otherwise
handling OK, so I will leave the pump off and see how the
energy consumption compares.
Oh and the "engine braking" feel has disappeared.

I did notice something disturbing that probably is caused
by the much higher revs on the gearbox - a small puddle of
transmission fluid under the truck.... yikes!
I will need to find from where it leaks and keep an eye
on the level... Not fun.

My other car (an ICE) needs a new PCV valve so it is apart
right now, which leaves the truck to make a visit tomorrow
night - just beyond the (round-trip) range of the truck.
So, I am happy that it can plug into a regular outlet.
Even adding 3 or 4 miles per hour of charging helps when
you have a whole evening visit and are a few miles short
of a roundtrip....

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 =


-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behal=
f Of xxx@xxx.xxx
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:08 PM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just conne=
cted directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted pow=
er steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2. It's=
12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't waste s=
o much energy.

Bruce


[quote]Mark Grasserwrote:

Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behal=
f Of Morgan LaMoore
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes it muc=
h more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.

If your car lets you, try it some time: turn off the engine/motor while you=
're coasting in neutral in a parking lot and steer. It's much more difficul=
t than a system that was designed for manual steering.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Bill Dube <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> If you just remove the belt, the pump can block the flow of fluid and =

> make turning quite difficult. Depending on the particular system, it =

> can help to disconnect the hoses from the pump and then connect them =

> to each other. Leave them full of fluid.
>

__________________________
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-10-2012, 08:56 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
EVDL List Bot
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
EVDL List is on a distinguished road
Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

Hello Cor,

Sometimes a leaking automatic transmission is cause by a low vacuum signal
on a vacuum modulator. In a normal engine vacuum operation, when you start
out and accelerate, the engine vacuum drops which sends a low vacuum signal
which may be in the 5 in.hg range. This low signal increases the
transmission pump pressure to as high as 180 psi or more.

After the acceleration is done, the vacuum signal is raising to 15 to 22
in.hg range. This lowers the transmission oil pressure to about 80 to 100
psi.

If your vacuum signal is too low all the time, which is may be cause by a
vacuum modulator adjustment, vacuum pump in.hg too low or a leaking vacuum
line, the transmission oil normally blow out the vent that is located on top
of the transmission.

A too high oil pressure may cause the front seals of the pump, which is
where the torque converter is inserted into.

Drag racers actually have a vacuum switch to switch off this vacuum line,
just before there run which increases the oil pressure to over 180 psi, then
open it up after the run. Sometimes it is normal for them to blow the
transmission seals after each run.

To prevent the transmission oil to blow out the transmission vent on to the
ground, a line is attach to the vent which first catches the oil in a small
reservoir. I use a remote oil filter housing that is normally use for a
ICE. Do not use the oil filter, but attach the the two housings together
with out the filter and run one line to the transmission oil pan and one up
to the top of the transmission oil fill tube which I install a new
transmission vent valve.

If you are using a vacuum pump to operated the modulator valve on a
transmission, and the vacuum signal is always at 15 in.hg. or greater, then
the transmission will always have low oil press which prevents a faster
accelerator.

Diesel vehicles had a vacuum accelerator control where the vacuum first
comes from a vacuum pump which is normally set at 22 in.hg. When the
operator presses the accelerator, the vacuum accelerator control that is
attach to the fuel accelerator control, vents the vacuum signal which cause
a low signal to the transmission vacuum modulator thus causes higher oil
pressure for increase acceleration.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!


I just now went outsides, slacked the tensioner pulley,
removed the belt and drove the truck without power steering.
It drives in the same way as my previous EV truck, needs
a little arm-work to turn when driving slow but otherwise
handling OK, so I will leave the pump off and see how the
energy consumption compares.
Oh and the "engine braking" feel has disappeared.

I did notice something disturbing that probably is caused
by the much higher revs on the gearbox - a small puddle of
transmission fluid under the truck.... yikes!
I will need to find from where it leaks and keep an eye
on the level... Not fun.

My other car (an ICE) needs a new PCV valve so it is apart
right now, which leaves the truck to make a visit tomorrow
night - just beyond the (round-trip) range of the truck.
So, I am happy that it can plug into a regular outlet.
Even adding 3 or 4 miles per hour of charging helps when
you have a whole evening visit and are a few miles short
of a roundtrip....

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
Of xxx@xxx.xxx
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:08 PM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just
connected directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted
power steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2.
It's 12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't
waste so much energy.

Bruce


[quote] Mark Grasser wrote:

Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
Of Morgan LaMoore
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes it much
more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.

If your car lets you, try it some time: turn off the engine/motor while
you're coasting in neutral in a parking lot and steer. It's much more
difficult than a system that was designed for manual steering.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Bill Dube <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> If you just remove the belt, the pump can block the flow of fluid and
> make turning quite difficult. Depending on the particular system, it
> can help to disconnect the hoses from the pump and then connect them
> to each other. Leave them full of fluid.
>

__________________________
-------------- next part --------------
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URL:
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-10-2012, 09:05 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
EVDL List Bot
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
EVDL List is on a distinguished road
Default Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

My EV being over 35 years old and had to replace the power steering pump and
vacuum brake booster, I just remove these items all the together and use a
electric power steering pump that I got from EV Source and replace the
vacuum brake booster with a hydro-brake booster that I got from my local
independent auto parts store.

The electric power steering pump high pressure lines first go to the high
pressure input of the hydro-boost and exist out to the steering box. A low
pressure line also exits out of the hydro-boost that tees into a fill
reservoir and back to the electric steering pump.

You can see some of these hydro-boost conversions on line that replaces the
vacuum brake boosters.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!


I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just
connected directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted
power steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2.
It's 12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't
waste so much energy.

Bruce


[quote] Mark Grasser wrote:

Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
Of Morgan LaMoore
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes it much
more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.

If your car lets you, try it some time: turn off the engine/motor while
you're coasting in neutral in a parking lot and steer. It's much more
difficult than a system that was designed for manual steering.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Bill Dube <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> If you just remove the belt, the pump can block the flow of fluid and
> make turning quite difficult. Depending on the particular system, it
> can help to disconnect the hoses from the pump and then connect them
> to each other. Leave them full of fluid.
>

__________________________
-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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